Seriously, last survivor gets Fd by endgame collapse
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Completely agree.
After all those reasons...Killer shouldn´t be able to close the hatch. Maybe, once he finds it he should´ve be able to start the timer but without closing hatch. That would put pressure on survivor but at the same time gives him space for strategy in order to have a chance of escaping. Otherwise there is no strategy and just wishing for luck that gates are far enough from each other + killer check first the other gate.
Said that, the fun in the game has been the possibilities for strategies, and not just flipping a coin expecting to have luck.
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EGC needs to be balanced around mobility killers. Atm its just a save easy kill. Exit gate spawn wont solve anything.
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Well the problem is if you balance it around mobility based Killers. They'll just be average when it comes to it whilst any killer who is not based against the mobility will have an extremely difficult time.
For example Hag if her traps are not by the exit and get triggered she will have a very difficult time if it's based around mobility.
Huntress can also fall into that category however her range does slightly help compensated.
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EGC changes how the last survivor and killers are meant to play the game. You can't keep playing how you used to and expect the same results. You have to change strategy.
Like I have read above, go to a door if you don't know where and hatch is and wait. Or try something else.
Don't keep doing the same thing and say "this is broken, too op, killer always wins"
Try out some different strategies maybe?
I have escaped as last survivor during EGC, if you play smart and realize what is actually happening it really is not too hard. But if I screw up, then I know that the killer deserves the kill, I failed to escape and therefore should die, not get a free win.
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I just finished a game where the Hillbilly closed the hatch, and I escaped.
SORY IN SPOILER IF INTRESTED:
This Hillbilly camped. I had an insta heal. This billy was an idiot. All survivors died. Hillbilly found hatch, but was waiting for me. I saw this, looked him straight in the eye, and started doing a gen. He then closed the hatch. One of the doors was right next to me, so was a tractor. I got on top of it, and the billy was waiting for me to open the gate. Me, now reading him like a book, knew what he was doing, jumped down on the side he can't see me on, and ran to the other gate, opened it, and escaped.
Moral of the story: It's 100% possible to escape if you know the killer is a potato.
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Just bring a key and you're guaranteed to win the hatch standoff. It's really not that bad, just prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
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You and your team lost you dont deserve a guaranteed escape just cause your the last person
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Like we've discussed before it should also have to do with a killers power and movement speed. This is so that if we just based it off movement speed alone we'd have gates that're 24 meters away from each other as Nurse.
It would take a lot of thought into how this system should work to have a fair balance between all killers.
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@NMCKE One can't repeat that often enough. The EGC is a very good game mechanic that only needs a little adjustement.
Like @FireHazard mentioned, to make it perfect you would have to take the killers' movement speeds into consideration for the spawning rules.
Btw, if creating a spawning algorithm for exit gates is too complicated, the devs could create like 5 fixed scenarios for each map of which one gets randomly chosen for a trial.
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just start playing killer.
survivor is too hard at this point. and in the EGC. there's literally no chance for escaping. unless the killer is a brainless idiot. which won't happen in red ranks.
i already started playing killer. around 5 killer matches (red rank). all of them are wins. 4 out of 5 had EGC (last survivor). and the survivor couldn't escape. rank reset happened. played around 7 killer matches. changed from nurse to legion because it's rank reset. no need to go with an op killer since i won't face that smart survivors. all the 7 games were ez wins. they didn't even repair the 5th gen. 6 out of 7 reached EGC (last survivor) and it was basically ez 4ks.
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Movement speed and power. All things need to be considered for the gates algorithms as a nurse with how slow she is could spawn gates 24 meters a part from each other which is just a GG in the end.
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Personally I disagree with adjusting the gate proximity but I can see the logic there and it's not a bad thing to do, I personally just see no reason to do it
The game already has so much randomness, starting from the map selection which can already wildly favor one side that having another mechanic that does something similar doesn't matter all that much
An example of where the EGC is more survivor favored would be Azarov's Resting Place when the gates spawn on opposite of the map. Not possible to patrol both of them due to distance and lack of line of sight
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Cool, 4 nerfs. Want a list of killer nerfs? Currently it's longer than this thread.
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@FireHazard Of course, that's a given. I don't believe anybody would think "Nurse only moves at 96% percent so the gates can't be too far away from each other" or treat Hillbilly the same as Freddy.
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A lot of things have happened that boggles the mind in some updates, I wouldn't be surprised.
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@Madjura I would like it if RNG wouldn't play such a big role in some situations. Luck shouldn't decide over win or loss. As you said, there are lot more aspects of the game which are random (too random for my liking).
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Of course a maximum/minimum distance wouldn't solve killers who can travel to both sides of the map. However, it's better than having both gates spawning in your field of view.
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No they do respawn Exactly after 3 minutes that's faster than the bleedout timer even if you have Saboteur it's completely useless on Tier 3 it's only adding 30 seconds .
Not to mention Hook disturbution there are like 3 or more hooks close to every corner in most maps . So solo sabo is pretty useless .
Hangman tricks only reduces the hook and bear traps respawn timer so killers don't need it most of the time
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It's not starting a war my comment was to second the opinion of the original post ,
Eventhough I am a survivor main and enjoy it more , I do agree with the killer being able to close the hatch .
However to fix this like everyone else stated The minimum distance between exit gates should be looked at ,
Or Giving the ability to survivor to interact with the Hatch and open it like searching a chest for a set amount of time . If they fixed 2 Gens .
So far it opens even without any Gen completion and left behind buff is pretty useless since if the killer finds and closes the hatch Gens are blocked off anyways .
So you are left with no option but to wait for the timer to end or go and try to sweat and try to open the Gate little by little .. which in most maps both exits are gonna be in close proximity .
No need to go at each others faces and extend the discussion in vain . And I doubt any changes will be made to EGC the Devs intention is so clear .
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I understand your point of view but saying things like "How about You get 32k BP in cheque Sir wouldn't it be better!" Is not constructive, really it isn't.
However, I don't think we need to give survivors the ability to open the hatch after an animation because then the killer couldn't check the gates in fear of the survivor being ready to open it when they leave.
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Have you ever actually tested the numbers when working on a generator with more than one person? It's still faster than working on it alone. Yes, there is a red bar but work on it with 2 or 3 people and tell me it takes longer than 80 seconds. If gen progression really did slow down, survivors would be in a literal outrage.
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Actually, you're wrong. Killer can close hatch while a survivor jumps in it thus stopping the animation of the jump. You should probably try out survivor to get a solid perspective of the game instead of a one bias side of the game.
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You should probably try out survive so you get a 50 50 perspective of the game instead of this killer bias, you're also forgetting survivors are actual human players, not AI. Devs want DbD to be about 3 die and 1 lives to tell the tale, like in any other horror movie or asymmetrical game. Welcome to the gaming world, Orion.
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As somebody who does played both while I agree the survivors should have a chance they should be at a disadvantage considering they have failed.
Once you have generally lost the main advantage of being the role of the many trying to claim back victory should be a very difficult task.
I feel like the fact that the survivors who are the last ones left have two separate chances to pullback victory first one being the hatch and the second being an exit gate is more than generous enough remember unlike before hatch will spawn no matter what.
Before if survivors were unable to complete two generators before they were the last person it was essentially nearly impossible to escape and you really had to work for it.
With the new endgame collapse you have a much easier time trying to escape as hatch spawns no matter what and even if it gets close you could still go for exit gates.
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I already play both sides, thanks. Yes, I know all players are human players and not AI, but guess what? They're gonna have to learn that after ######### up during the entire round, they deserve to lose.
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They just need to ajust gate spawns so that they're fair for both sides.
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There's much simpler solution, just give last survivor either +15% buff speed to opening exit gate, or cut down the door opening time down to 15 sec.
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Killers very happy to have his free and easy last kill just for patrolling gates 2 minutes. So enjoy down votes for even a idea to give last survivor just a little more chances
- When killer close the the hatch, survivors get visual and noise notification.
- Basement chest always have a key.
Now lets see how many Vote Down i get.
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I must say I completely agree with this. I don't main survivor by any means but I have been getting back into it. I have noticed that after my break from the game that lasted 2 DLCs it has become a lot harder to survive because survivors have been nerfed a lot. I was all for the nerfs because they were way too strong but now they feel a bit on the weak side but thats all before we consider the end game.
I believe the end game, as you said, is disgustingly unfair on the last survivor that is more than likely doing really well at doing what survivors do... surviving. In the low ranks I always find myself last man standing and being punished for my teammates incompetence and inability to survive. This also makes it hard for me to rank up because situations like these keep me from ranking up because I'm surrounded by #########...
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The game is set around 2 in 2 out, if you got the 3k, you won.
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It's almost like that's the purpose of EGC. To not have the game turn into a 20 minute Hide and Seek session before the last survivor goes for a gate.
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Most of the posts I see anymore are just whining with no actual ideas given. Its easy to just sprout out that the devs CLEARLY are bias towards one side or another and that the must not have tested XYZ change that i dont like/are not good at their game/must be a (insert the side im opposing) main to have come up with this. Its completely pointless and doesnt offer anything to the conversation. If you have a gripe, give actual feedback and suggestions with the thought in the back of your head that it must provide fair chance for either side to succeed.
Now, for the topic at hand of the EGC and the gates being too hard to open for the last survivor. I see afew gripes about it, some with merit. While personally, Ive been able to get out VIA the gate in a last survivor situation already, I do think there can be room for improvement on afew things. IF anything i state you disagree with, please let me know and be specific with your own thoughts behind it (and please tag me so im notified) I think its universally agreed upon for example that gate locations can be a problem, and that brings me to my first point...
-a minimum/maximum distance should be implemented. The devs have been pretty good at implementing this for the hooks, i dont see why doing the same for the gates should really be a problem. While yes, having the gates be too close is a problem because faster killers can easily patroll them, they at the same time cant have them at completely opposite ends of the map, to make it possible for the slower killers too.
-secondly, the lights on the gate could be altered to make it so the first light doesnt light up til the gate is...lets say...50% powered. This would allow a survivor to power a gate to about 45%, wait for the killer to patrol the gate, and finish it up once the killer leaves again. ATM, the first gate I feel gives away the survivors presence too early. If the killer sees a light on, theyre going to stick around, and if the survivor has to cross the map for the other gate...they're likely to just run out of time. Adjusting the lights allows for a stealthier approach to opening the gates and would be usable against even the faster killers.
-Make Remember Me not work on the last survivor alive. With the current iteration of EGC, remember me saw a nerf due to the strain it would put on the last survivor having to open the gate without another survivor being there to keep the killer occupied. The Idea of having one person be sneaky enough to open a gate that takes 50 seconds, while on the EGC 2 minute timer and with no teammates to preoccupy the killer... The devs rightfully saw this as a problem. I dont think theyre actions toward that problem was the answer though. The perk still extinguishes all hope of a last survivor opening a gate, but now just feels worthless in team setting. I would suggest reverting the nerf, but making the last survivor immune to it.
-Another thing Id like to remind people is that the perk Wake up DOES infact exist, lol. This perk would ease the burden of the last survivor to open the gates. I do however feel like a slight buff COULD be implimented, maybe going from 15% to 25%. This would make it take 15 seconds total for a survivor to open the gate, as opposed to 17.39. I like to keep it at whole numbers...
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Nah. Keep EGC as it is. I play equally as Survivor and Killer and it works fine. That's why they changed hatch grab. It's good that the last survivor actually feels compelled to act urgently in searching for the hatch. A lot of the saltiness is from spanners who miss teabagging and getting a cheap escape.
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(Killer main) While I love this new patch my only complaint is that the gates spawns need to be changed a bit, the gates that are so close together you can literally see both of the boxes without moving from one spot is total bs and a guaranteed win for the killer, Mettle of pussy can't even save them if they don't have a gate open yet and you see them opening it. You get the idea
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It really sucks when the hatch spawns next to an exit.
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The only problem with the EGC is that not all maps are the same size. If they WERE the same size, doors could have a rule of a minimum distance apart from each other and you could ACTUALLY stand a chance. As it is now the only times I have won in the EGC when a killer has killed off my 3 teammates who are lining up for the hook are when I was already near where the hatch was gonna spawn, or in Lery's where I basically see which door the killer is close to and go to the one farthest from him and he doesn't have enough time to get to the other door because in Lery's the doors are always on opposite ends of the map. As long as he didn't see me and I know where he is on Lery's in the EGC, I get out easily. All maps need to be made the same size so they can balance them properly, then the doors need a set distance apart from each other so a killer can't just look at both of them and see where the survivor is headed after finding the hatch.
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Plunderer's Instinct and hope luck is on your side. The one good thing about a closed hatch is it still makes noise.
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Escaping doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll win. It’s not an issue, but some things need to be fixed. Otherwise, as a survivor player- EGC is fine for both sides with potential to be changed.
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If you always loose as last survivor the problem is on your side.
You even got guaranteed hatch without gens done and gates powered if killer finds hatch.
Just how ######### entitled one can be to expect more? Jesus Christ.
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"just start playing killer.
survivor is too hard at this point. and in the EGC. there's literally no chance for escaping. unless the killer is a brainless idiot. which won't happen in red ranks."
Hahahahhahaha.
No.
Edit: Its also hilarious how some players here think 1 survivor should be able to face and BEAT the Killer. If you are the last one alive you shouldn't get an automatic escape. If you get out at this point congrats, but it shouldn't be expected or tilted in your favor.
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I'm not really seeing the same issue. I've probably still escaped more through the hatch or doors as the last survivors left than I've died in that scenario.
Most the people I see fail just go at it wrong. They bum rush the door instead of waiting for the right moment.
Also, the killer ping ponging from door to door is extremely dependent on RNG. Sometimes the doors are close and sometimes they're on the complete opposite side of the map and get basically get a free escape. It goes both ways.
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Exactly.
They had it their way for over 2 years. Now it is actually fair and makes sense and they are still crying.
The EGC is fine the way it is.
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Need endgame statistics (survival rate for last survivor if all 5 gens have not been completed) and if devs want a balanced endgame for this scenario.
There is a lot of conjecture about whether killers should have advantage in this scenario. Would like to hear devs thoughts.
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Want some help? Make a build that helps you escape if you have so much trouble, just play the next match, you already get hatch for a reward of bad gameplay.
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Here's the thing about the Killer:
He needs to be as powerful as FOUR people working together.
This means, when he kills one person; the balance of power is now firmly in his favor.
He kills two people; now he is very, VERY firmly in control and the other two are probably screwed unless the team worked well before it all went to hell.
He kills 3; it's now one-on-one..The Killer is as powerful as he was at the start, and the Survivor is 1/4 as useful.
Guess who's favor it's now in?
And for a bonus; that ONE survivor is now feeling hopeless..and the Entity feeds on that feeling of hopelessness..
Kinda seems to be working as intended, boys. And let me tell you; I've seen some BAD ideas to 'balance' the power:
The hatch is now time-based. The Killer is not allowed to chose when it closes.
The Pig's Beartraps should come off automatically on the 3rd box if the Survivor fails at 2 before it.
The Killer should lose movement speed FOR THE ENTIRE MATCH if he hook camps.
And on and on..
You're supposed to be SCARED as the Survivor, which means the Killer needs to have power, but so many Survivors want to yank that power away because they just want to win.
They don't want true balance or an immersive experience, no. Throw all that away and let. them. win.
Everything else is secondary to exiting those gates every match. Even other Survivors don't matter to them. Only THEY deserve to win every match.
And honestly? It's getting frustrating to see time and again:
Toxic Survivors in game blaming everyone else that they got caught.
Screaming at Killers for being 'sweatty' or 'tryhards'.
Yelling for rules to 'punish' slugging and hook camping like there's some sort of rulebook; 'How To Play Killer' by Survivor McSurvivorMain.
And if it's this exhausting to read as a player, imagine how bad it must be for the poor Devs; They just want to get proper feedback but they have to sift through so much noise to find anything useful.
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I liked this till you said you DC. One of the best perks too run for End Game is Wake Up now that it's fixed. 15% will pretty much guaranteed an open door if they don't have Remeber Me. But DCing just makes you into the wrong unless they are hacking or lag switching. I would change it too where killers can grab people from hatch too counter keys, but make the exit doors spawn across from each other every game. This way you can easily open it and the killer doesn't get a free kill. Please stop DCing.
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maybe survivors should just ######### leave instead of t-bagging. And its fair tbh whn the killere closes the hatch you can get the doors...easy.
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Lol. F13 is trash.
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Why do people feel like they deserve a free escape when they are the last survivor? Your objective is to repair 5 generators to be able to escape. You failed at doing that? Well you lost, the killer did his job. Be thankful that you get a second small chance of a free escape if you get the hatch, and an even smaller third chance to open the door if the killer closes the hatch. He is THE KILLER and you are a tiny survivor, you are not meant to win a 1v1, the game is based around teamwork.
The only flaw i see (besides changing the minimum distance between doors, as mentioned before) is when the killer camps and tunnels the other survivors. In that case he kinda doesn't deserve to get the last kill, but for that we need more punishment for camping and tunneling, the EGC is fine as it is.
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Endgame is a lot of luck... If the gates are far and no nurse of billy you are fine. If they are close ugh
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