So survivors can infinitely run Legion in feral frenzy at short loops
I didn't realize just how easy it was to avoid his power until I met one survivor who understood the weakness very well. He would intentionally seek out short loops with a pallet when I was chasing him. Because of Legion's significantly nerfed pallet vaulting speed, by the time he makes it over a pallet, they're more than half way around the loop so chasing them so it's a garuntee to run out the Feral Frenzy timer if you're at one of these things and you know what you're doing. It wasn't till the 3rd time I realized the survivor was doing this on purpose and had to adapt.
At first I tried doing what killers outside of feral frenzy do in that situation and make it look like I'm going one way and switch around the other while they're in the vaulting animation. You would think that because of the increased movement speed, that it would be easier while in frenzy, but the reduced vision actually makes it annoyingly difficult. While theoretically possible, I would run out of frenzy time before I ever hit them.
I eventually had to resort to just cancelling frenzy whenever I recognized the situation happened and break the pallet which is a huge waste of time cause this is the frenzy stun animation followed by the pallet break animation.
The vault speed nerf to Legion was completely unnecessary and now it can completely negate his kit design at certain pallet loops (and possibly window loops but I haven't seen any window loops that short yet).
Comments
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That's a problem with the player not reacting to the survivors plays. There aren't an infinite number of short loops. Just break the pallet and deny the loop.
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As someone who has, as a Survivor, managed to do exactly what Dehitay is describing, the nerfed pallet speed completely ensures that there is nothing the Legion can do while in Frenzy. Sure, he can break it afterwards, but don’t you think it’s unreasonable that running in a circle around short loops is a near-foolproof cancellation to a power that is literally built to prevent that from happening?
Personally, I think it’s unreasonable. And by that I mean “total bullshit”.
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Going into FF in a short loop was the mistake.
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The vault speed nerf never did make that much sense to me. So what if he can speed vault it? They can't down you with Frenzy...cool down addons? Stun is still too long and Survivor can go for another loop. Not like even getting hit with Frenzy is that threatening anyway
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I did the same thing in Léry's, but it involved a bunch of vaults! I would gain just enough distance to reach another, then another one, then another one, etc etc.
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The devs did everything they could to ensure that anything Legion does has counter play for the survivor. Whether it comes to looping, juking an attack or abusing how ######### deep wounds is now. 😂
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#cOuNtErPlAy
When asked about the nerfed speed and vaults on streams, they devs responded that they were required to allow counter play. So getting ######### at the pallet working as intended.
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I'm 100% sure you could simply just go around it, or fake going around it to bait them into not vaulting. theres also the really neat mechanic of kicking the pallet
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So go through a 4 second stun and THEN break the pallet, every time? On many maps there are almost always pallets at every turn - this is how you get looped for 3 gens.
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@rch614 I don't think it's supposed to be threatening? if you can get enough of them mending it slows gen repair down.
Saying that I had 2 Survivors go down today FROM FRENZY BLEED OUT and I was like wha?
I sometimes wonder though what even is the point of hitting them with FF a second time other than breaking yourself out of FF early (which you may as well choose to miss them as it's the same result either way) so you can catch up with them and down them with a standard hit.
I've even taken to trying to get slightly ahead of them so the catch up time for that final hit once FF ends is a little shorter.
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Legion's power was meant to circumvent pallets altogether, guess not anymore.
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@Mat_Sella That wouldn't be in alignment with the developers vision of killers being FUN for survivors to face. A killer you cannot loop isn't fun to face, so that's a no-go.
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Legion needs rework...
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Yeah, I was waiting for a Legion rework so he wouldn't feel so abusive to play, now I have to wait for another rework to make him playable at all. Great.
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He doesn't need a rework. he needs minor tweaks to make him more viable.
See: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/62070/feral-frenzy-vault-speed-legion#latest
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The devs didn't listen. The solution was pretty simple here for legion.
Block moonwalk cheesing... The end. That's all they had to do. I'm not good enough to moonwalk do I didn't care, but when I seen them nerfs I knew it was over.
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in short loops. don't go into feral frenzy. it's easy to mindgame and usually grants a hit.
going to feral frenzy in a short loop was a mistake at the first place.
or you can just break the pallet. even tho i don't suggest breaking it cuz of easy mindgames
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Easy mindgames only work with potato survivors.
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THIS. THIS.
Frenzy is no longer "deadly" why were so many other aspects nerfed?!
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Yup, that's what i remember complaining about on the PTB but nobody took me seriously.
Like @rch614 said, i brought the same point in others threads as well, we need the old ff speed back, the old vault speed back and no restriction on when we can use the power, because the stun and the unability to directly down survivor with FF would balance it out, you can't get a cheap M1 out of frenzy because of the 4 second stun and the CD addons nerf, so it would be legit fine.
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They pulled a nerf they tried with remember me.... they increased the stun time to 4 seconds and smashed the cooldown addons with the hammer :X ......
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@Plu You think they'd listen? They said they were keeping close tabs on the Legion in their stream, however I doubt they'd see the forest for the trees.
Meaning just because people might perform well with the Legion now, it doesn't mean it's fun for the killers who knew what speed incarnent was before the rework.
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I agree. With old Legion it would have made sense, but with the current one, not so much.
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My current strategy with Legion is to use the Enduring+Spirit Fury combo. The 4 seconds stun of coming out of frenzy is an easy escape for survivors especially if they throw down a pallet that I have to break first, so instead of dealing with that, I try to get survivors to pallet slam me. Getting pallet stunned breaks you out of frenzy without having the frenzy cool down to deal with so putting up with a pallet stun with Enduring for 1.14 seconds and maybe spending 2 seconds breaking said pallet is far better than having the 4 seconds stun + 2 seconds pallet break. This combo works especially well with the iridescent button, but I only have a few of those so they are saved for higher ranks. As for the short loops, if I don't get them to stun me out of frenzy on those I abandon the survivor I'm chasing, and break the pallet later, as its better to find and chase someone else vs. wasting time on a short loop that will end in the survivor getting away after frenzy runs out.
It sucks that this is the only real strategy option I have for chasing/downing a single survivor, but on the plus side, it gets rid of pallets quickly, and by mid game they generally have few pallets left in the map to use.
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