http://dbd.game/killswitch
Spirit vs. Hillbilly, my personal thoughts.
Okay so, first off this is MY opinion. Some of you respect that, and therefore I respect you. Others not so much. Keep in mind I've been playing this game for almost 3 years. If you disagree, thats okay. Just because I put a lot of time into this game doesn't mean I'm right. This stems from a discussion from a tier list I made, which looking back may not be the most accurate (I made it rather late at night). Therefore, I've been experimenting with different killers the past couple of days to really get a good grasp of them.
So, which do I think is more powerful? Well, I'm going to say it straight out: Hillbilly. Now, hear me out here. I've talked to a few high-tier players and they generally agree that Hillbilly is the better of the two. But I'm not going to base this argument off unnamed players alone, I'll throw in the strengths and weaknesses of both killers.
One more thing, this is about the BASE killer. No perks or add-ons.
About the Hillbilly. Some say Hillbilly is weak against loops. However, I disagree completely. When it comes to loops, its all about mindgames. You're not going to get a hit just by running around the tiles. There are some advanced Billy techniques that are hard counters to looping. Chainsaw feathering, for example. You rev up the chainsaw as if you were expecting them to throw down the pallet. Instead, you keep the chainsaw bar at around 5-10%. This makes them think they're safe for another loops, then you quickly unrev and get a free hit. Or, an even trickier tactic, curving. In the split second when you start the chainsaw sprint, your sensitivity is really high, allowing for some crazy corner mindgames. I've heard that Billy doesn't take nearly as long to learn than Spirit, which may be true actually, but Billy isn't an easy-to-master Killer. He has a lot behind him.
Now, this is the most important thing. Hillbilly has two things the Spirit doesn't: Consistent Movement and an instadown. Instadowns are massive in DBD, as they allow you to take your map pressure to its limit. Hillbilly's Chainsaw sprint allows him to move 2x as fast as your base movement speed. This allows you to cross the map in seconds, with only a 3 second cooldown.
Hillbilly has unremarkable map pressure and can singlehandedly keep all survivors in check while getting downs left and right. His ability to end chases in mere seconds is unrivaled by any other killer.
Tactics like feathering, faking, curving, zoning, etc. has the potential to shut down his weaknesses. Like jungle gyms and loops.
However, mindgames can always be outplayed. If a survivor knows exactly what you are trying, then you just have to deal with the loop.
Now, for Spirit. At this point, I'd put her at 3#. I don't think she's bad, not even close. I'm not new to Spirit, I even almost mained her one time. I've been playing Hillbilly for almost 2 years, so I understand him quite well. I'm less experienced with Spirit, but thats due to her release being quite recent compared to Billy's. However, I do have a firm grasp on how she's meant to be played. Lets cover her strengths.
If a Spirit can track, then she can know exactly where a survivor is without scratch marks or vision of them. This separates good Spirits from bad ones. Spirits ability to shut down loops is only rivaled by that of Nurse (obviously) and Clown. She does have fast mobility, with a lot more control over it than Hillbilly, however this wastes power and potential chases and you have to wait 15 whole seconds for it to recharge.
With Spirit, it puts the survivors in a panicky position. Unlike Hillbilly, who you have sight of 100% of the time, you can't see Spirit. This kind of stress causes mistakes on the survivor's parts. For example, when you stand still to fake out a phase, they have to take a 50/50 chance on whether you are phasing or not. Or when they are at a dropped pallet while you are phasing, they have to take a 50/50 chance on which side you will phase to. This kind of quick decision making will stress a survivor, making them more prone to mistakes.
However, Spirit does have counterplay. The seemingly overwhelming Dead Hard + Mettle of Man combo destroys her as of right now. It will be changed, however, so don't take that point to heart. Spine Chill can shut down a Spirit if used cautiously. But, Spirit's dependence on tracking leaves perks like Iron Will to be hard counters.
For my final argument: Both killers are amazing. But I believe Billy takes the spot for number 2#, as he has so much going for him. His advanced tactics counter looping, his map pressure is enormous, he has heavy mindgame potential while also taking a good amount of mechanical skill. He has an instadown, too, which is often overlooked and underestimated. Spirit has unpredictability and the potential to cause survivors to make mistakes, which can shut down chases pretty fast. But Billy can shut down chases even faster.
Comments
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I do respect your opinion (yes I did in the other thread too).
I don't know what to really say honestly, it comes down to your experiences. If you think Billy is better, then so be it. You might change your mind. I used to think he was better than Hag and Spirit both. Then I mained Hag and Spirit and the difference was blatantly obvious to me.
I can't really convince you otherwise, but I'll personally say, my list for the killers are:
Obviously, we have different opinions though.
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@almondbutter to be honest, it's still a solid list. We seem to think pretty similarly lol. except for the Spirit and Billy thing.
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Ye
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@almondbutter you have a tier list I agree with the most of any I've seen and your points on Hillbilly vs spirit really explain this topic. As far as I'm concerned, Billy and spirit are equally tied for #2 (when both have add ons, not including prayer beads.) Billy punishes out positioning, which happens more then you think. A good spirit can also end a chase just as fast. Billy, hag, and Spirit are my favorite killers to play and all feel like top tier killers.
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IMO the only thing Billy has over Spirit that makes him definitely higher on the tier list is a built in one shot. As good a Spirit you might be, you don't have a built in one shot. They are definitely both in a tier above everyone else though, with Nurse being alone in the tier above them.
EDIT: Made this just now for fun...
S tier is Nurse, hands down the strongest in the game.
A tier is Billy and Spirit. Strongest in the game after Nurse. Way above every other killer but still way below Nurse. For the most part, killers in S and A tier can just power through survivor meta perks.
B tier is Huntress, Hag, Myers. These are the most "balanced" killers IMO. They are very strong but have some glaring weaknesses and can fall victim to bad RNG or really good survivor groups. All killers this tier and up have very strong snowball potential.
C tier is Clown, Pig, Trapper, and Plague. Clown is one of the strongest in a chase, but that's really all he has going for him. Pig has a good mix of abilities. Trapper and Plague are really strong but very reliant on survivors making mistakes. However when they do, these 2 killers can snowball very hard, similar to B tier killers.
D tier killers aren't exactly BAD killers but they have a few big weaknesses that are hard to overcome. Old Legion would have been higher, probably B tier, but new Legion is definitely weaker overall. He is right below Plague and the only reason she's not in this tier with him is because of how powerful Corrupt Purge is. Doc can slow the game and find survivors easy, but has nothing to really help in a chase, and his power is almost useless against good survivors (though IMO he is still the most annoying killer to face, even if he isn't hard to beat). Wraith has stealth and speed, but not much else.
F tier are the "bad" killers. LF has nothing but a multi-one-shot, and this is the only reason he's not on the bottom (because if he catches someone he can guarantee a kill). Freddy is obviously the weakest, however with the right build he is still a formidable killer. But he is so build/add-on dependent that it drops his tier ranking, on top of the fact that he can't do anything for a short time after he approaches you. Meta perks like Adren, Unbreakable, Borrowed Time, and Self Care hurt him more than any other killer.
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Actually Spirit isn't hurt that badly by dead hard. MoM is a different story of course, but if you are hitting them out of phase then they won't be able to react to your attack.
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MOM almost doesn't even bother me as Spirit unless it's during EGC. Most of the time I just let the guy go because if they heal it's EZ chase. But if I really want them I just wait a bit for my power and get them in less than 10 seconds. Mild waste of time.
Dead Hard is tricky. Most survivors suck at using it against Spirit, but I had a couple very good ones. Unfortunately I'm not a baby killer, I will just come out of phase walk and wait for the DH, they do it every time, then swing and they are down.
The hardest perks for Spirit to deal with are ironically not meta perks. Iron Will, Lightweight, Spine Chill, and Quick & Quiet. Get a survivor with this build and it will be VERY HARD to catch them during phase walk.
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Very solid tier list, I agree for the most part.
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Going against a coordinated SWF that knows how to pallet loop, Spirit is 100% better than Billy no questions asked.
Sure Billy has a one shot...but what if you get Lery’s? Wreckers Yard? The Game? Haddonfield? Springwood? Basically any map that is very clustered and is small. Not every map is open like Shelter Woods...actually most maps aren’t very open. Billy will be looped just like any other M1 killer. The survivors will not LET you use your chainsaw. You’re gonna turn into a Whack-a-Billy. You can’t use your chainsaw against loops. Try using your chainsaw against the 50 safe pallets on The Game map. The round will be over by the time you have broken most of the pallets. You have no mind-game around pallets, Spirit however does.
Spirit on the other hand can down a survivor in under 30 seconds with two uses of her power, even sooner if she has good add-ons. If the Spirit is good and actually uses their eyes and ears and isn’t boosted...the survivors will never survive.
Spirit also has good map control, obviously not as good as Billy. It is much easier to down as Spirit than it is with Billy against good survivors. Her chase potential is extremely high.
Against random survivors I’ll give the edge to Billy but against a coordinated team Spirit will easily win. If you’re at a loop, Spirit has the advantage. Spirit has higher consistency across the board than Billy. Against a coordinated group Billy’s viability dips while Nurse, Spirit, and Hag skyrocket.
It all boils down to the fact that Billy can easily be looped and have his time wasted, Spirit cannot. If you are looping a Spirit she is bad, period. A good Spirit will never let you loop her.
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It's simple, really. The Spirit is a trash tier scrub-stomper. The Hillbilly is the second best killer in the game.
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All you do is bash Spirit on every single post about her and you brag about how you’ve “never lost to a Spirit”. It’s more of a bias than anything. If you fail to see how viable she is at red ranks then that is your loss.
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(proceeds to loop a billy for 5 gens because billy can't use their saw at loops) (Proceeds to loop spirit but they can actually use their power at loops so I get downed way faster)
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Billy can use their chainsaw at loops, 100%. I went over this in the post.
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Billy is too map dependent and has to deal with Dead Hard (Survivors can DH to a loop and prevent Billy’s instadown).
Spirit is not very map dependent and nullifies Dead Hard.
Are you trying to troll or are you just bad with every other Killer/don’t want to try them out?
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@MegMain98 they're trolling, don't waste your time with them.
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While I am a firm believer of Billy taking the 2nd spot, Spirit is nowhere near trash tier. Nor a scrub-stomper. She's just good in the same way Nurse is good, without breaking as many boundaries.
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I'd still place Spirit 2nd. Not by much. Her map pressure is more conditional and she doesn't have an instadown, but she's stronger on loops and more importantly, she's not map dependant. Billy is more effective on open maps, but he suffers a lot on maps like Lery's and The Game, while Spirit's gameplan is relatively unchanged between realms.
But then again, not by much.
This is what my list would look like atm. Huntress would be S- along with Hag if she didn't get violently cucked by some maps (even more than Billy).
The tier names are on purpose because I don't think anyone is bad enough to warrant a C tier placement.
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That list's without fancy add-ons btw. Assuming the usage of purple/pink add-ons, Spirit could be along with Nurse and both Wraith and Trapper would be better than those on B+. Not to mention Iri Head Huntress.
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I understand, definitely.
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That is really similar to me. Wow. I'd swap Billy and Hag but wow, it's almost identical.
@almondbutter I really like that comment, you said that very honestly.
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I main Hag, and I think she's really busted in certain mid to late-game scenarios (like, Nurse levels). The only problem I have with her is that generally time not applying pressure in this game hurts you. But after the early game she's a beast.
Also flashlights. Not prevalent enough to make her bad, but it sucks chasing someone on foot after they erased your traps.
But she's still so above the average it's hilarious, especially because people sleep on her.
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It's pretty tricky for me to say which killer is better. There are many variables involved.
Spirit might be a little better against good survivors for the simple reason she can handle loops more effectively.
But on the other hand, Billy is just such a powerful killer all around (even without a meta build).
Most high rank Spirits I versed were using tryhard meta perks. Billy can do well without tryhard meta perks.
I think if you compared a Spirit using (Ruin, BBQ, Sloppy, NC and good add ons) to a Billy using (BBQ, Whispers, Enduring, Spirit Fury and low tier or no add ons), then Spirit would probably be better. But compare that same Spirit to a Billy using Ruin with Doom Engravings and Primer Bulb; now all of a sudden Billy becomes much more potent.
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Yay, Plague my main is A tier smack in the middle. Hopefully with a little improvements she can be S tier (C'mon Plague, you can do it)
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