Stop Making Large Maps
They are always survivor sided, the randomization is ######### and puts pallets next to L wall T walls next to another long wall with a pallets so everything is safe and survivors can run around willy nilly so unless your nurse you can't do anything. Your map design is flawed and terrible. SWF only makes it worse, all the changes and supposed improvements to the game you make still don't actually fix the balance, they just make it slightly not as bad, at least again until you realease giant maps that favor survivors. Please stop.
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someone didnt watch the livestream.
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You mean they are adding two new maps and rebalancing two old ones? One is badham, which is a small map and has its own problem. BUt Who knows if the new maps will be large or not, or what the other map they are changing is? While small maps like Badham can be a problem, maps being Large are just a problem in general and always favor the survivor, as only Billy and Nurse can put out the kind of map pressure to even potentially deal with them.
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Preach.
But seriously, the map design is horrendous in this game. Anyone who isn't biased can see that.
The devs need to revisit the more "balanced" maps and study all the details that made those maps more balanced.
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Tell me about it. I'm getting close to quitting Huntress because every new map they bring completely screws her over. There either too big to cover the map, the map denies sniping or the loops have no way to throw a hatchet over it.
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Every large map pushes more players into picking the top tier killers everyone is bored of who suit large maps. We need more killers playing the non-top tier killers. Give us two small maps instead of a single huge map.
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They should stop making small maps, they are always killer-sided.
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Let me guess: You're a survivor main.
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What maps are considered large? I never really understood what is logically considered a "big map".
Yes some seem more survivor-sided but some seem killer-sided as well (Shelter Woods comes to mind). For me, playing as killer I try to be as strategic and smart as possible to not let the map decide the outcome, but rather use it to my advantage.
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Only because he dont like small maps he is a killer main..?
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100% agree. The OG maps like MacMillian and Autohaven are for the most part balanced. There can be some cheesy spots from time to time but i could play those maps all day long. Wreckers Yard yes please i love those maps as either side. But then you get maps like Badham and Haddonfun which are absolute aids and can be a ball ache for both sides.
In the rest of the maps the devs need to seriously look at how they design the main buildings. Alot of them are cancer with long loops and some are even literal infinites with balanced landing.
I hope they plan to go over every map with a fine tooth comb to make them more fun and fair. Fixing trouble spots.
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i like map variety, i want big and small maps, cluttered maps and maps with big open danger zones
these things mean you have to play differently for the different environments
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I'd prefer the maps had better contents than larger area. Some of the larger ones tend to make games less exciting. Not all killers are capable of traversing the map and it creates large time gaps that make survivor very uneventful.
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"Too big" maps refers to those maps which dont allow Killers without mobility to apply proper pressure. Sometimes its about actual length, others its also because of generator placement.
Mother's Dwelling and Temple of Purgation are the ones considered the most "too large" maps. I feel Fractured Cowshed also falls in that category.
Shelter Woods can be both good or bad, depending on the Killer, I feel. There are less loops, but generators are all in the outskirts of the map. And this map is awful for playstyles revolving around surprise attacks.
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Interesting.
I am a Wraith/Michael main, and I don't know, but I've never really felt like I paid attention to the map size other than to have map awareness (where gens are, exit gates) in order to put apply map pressure.
I take advantage of the size and especially if it means getting to hook a survivor as far as possible from an exit game. Not saying that there aren't disadvantages, but there also advantages as well imo.
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larger maps are bad for the game, i agree
the solution is not to make more maps like The Game, though
coal tower is a small map and is probably one of the best balanced maps for killers and survivors, i don't know why they don't follow that formula more with some variation to make their maps unique. pretty much every new map is a slog on survivor and horrible on killer
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People who play Billy do it because they want to play Billy, not because maps are big.
Using the maps as a scapegoat to excuse wanting to play a strong killer is just sophistry.
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Survivors main can't understand what he is to play a killer like clown on big maps (crotus prenn , rotten fields , temple of purgation) do the middle gens then every m1 killers have no pressure on survivors.
Putting safe loops simply kill them.
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You load into Rotten Field with killer that has no mobility.
"If I get 2 hooks thats a win"
Both killers and survivors like Coal Tower for 2 reasons. Its compact map and tiles are fair for both sides.
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I agree, I hate the Game on both killer and survivor, it is just a really badly designed map from every conceivable point.
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Fun fact - Sheltered Woods is tied for second largest map in game - but nobody calls that one "survivor sided"
Size isn't everything
Giggity.
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Whaaaaat?! Rotten Field is way easier as a killer! I get more 3-4ks as a killer in that map then I make it out when I play survivor.
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Probably because of the lack of pallets on that map since their reworks.
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Largest map by order
Mother's dwelling - rotten fields/shelter woods (same size) - disturbed ward/temple of purgation (same size)
Smallest map
Lery is the smallest and yet the most annoying with rotten fields.
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Well, Shelter Woods is not so much a map as much as a ginormous dead zone so that's probably why.
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I think the size isn't the issue so much as the layout on alot of them. I personally despise both of The Red Forest maps both as a killer and survivor. I actually love The Game and the hospital maps from both sides.
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Large maps are pretty rough for killers, mostly low mobility ones. They did say in the livestream that they're going to be bettering all old maps, but it seems it'll take a while for them to get to them all.
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@thrawn3054 The size is definitly an issue. If you play a killer without good mobility, you have no chance patroling gens on Red Forest, for example.
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@NoShinyPony Which is what I mean by the layout being an issue. If they didn't spread the gens out so far they wouldn't be so bad.
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"different" ie play nurse all day long so you don't have to deal with unbalanced #########. Yeah no. Variety is one thing, but the balance has to remain. Large maps are absolutely hurting low mobility killers, 110% ms killers even more.
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@thrawn3054 So basically a map like Coal Tower, but with additional wasteland/dead zone all around the edge of the map? It would make more sense just to make a map like Coal Tower.
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@NoShinyPony They wouldn't need to be dead zones. For new maps I'd use those spaces to add some interesting buildings and land marks. Maybe adding little Easter eggs that tie into the story of the killer for who that map was made. Hopefully resulting in more unique and interesting maps.
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@thrawn3054 As long as these areas are only beneficial for lore and remain a dead zone gameplay-wise, sure. Anyway, the map design team probably doesn't have time for something like this. I'd be already happy if the next map would be balanced for a change.
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there are obviously maps that are survivor sided and there are maps that are killer sided so what’s the problem?
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@moonlunn A map shouldn't give one side a big advantage, a map should be balanced.
Also: Which maps do you consider killer sided?
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there are far more survivor sided maps, some of them egregiously so (haddonfield, mt ormond). a map being "killer sided" is more complicated since different killers play differently. rotten fields is a great map for hillbilly but awful for most killers, for example
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Agree with OP: on certain maps you literally can't make to one exit game from the other by the time it takes to open one.
Which makes me think about a different option: leave the big maps as they are, hell, make new ones, just increase default killer movement speed to 120%, and 115% for the slow ones. That would be a nice step towards actual balance.
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Map balance is hard as killer mobility and powers play into it.
As a doc main, the larger maps like Rotten Fields and Mother's Dwelling are rougher as it's harder to cover the map in madness. But put me on my home turf on Lery's and I'm going to destroy you almost as bad as I dominate The Game (Doc is very OP when on The Game).
But switch the killer to Hillbilly - Rotten Fields is his playground, but he can't use his mobility nearly as well on Lery's.
That's what I meant by size isn't the only consideration - the layout of the map has a huge effect on how effective certain killers can be.
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Just learn to play around it and use a high mobility Killer or high pressure Killer, all I can say, not an issue to me.
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That's why I left the trapper.
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I really have never liked this argument, people should be able to play the killer they actually enjoy rather then be forced to choose a "high tier" option.
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New maps have been visually great, and functionally horrendous for a long while. They continue being extremely survivor sided.
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Exactly my point. The person who does go back and balance the maps should be in charge of map design, while the current lead map designer should simply work on aesthetics, as thats obviously where his skills shine, and I want him to continue with that.
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I want to have loops that actuelly requires mind game everyone agrees on that BUT BHVR decided to make another inside map with everyone hates and make a new map where its pallet to pallet to pallet its so booring and pallets require no skill at alll booring game play.
Its like the are pushing away all the experiencedp layers i feel like
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Large maps are good for lots of killers, but they hurt other killers.
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Just to hook onto this, what do people actually think of hawkins? I've always found that one to be a pain in the ass for both sides, and yesterday i had either a bug or something new where every single large door was squealing constantly.
Also, there seems to be a distinct lack of vaults on the lower floor which i found really odd.
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Really poorly designed map, it's somehow both pallet heaven and chase central at the same time.
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