Hot take: Nurse is beatable

Being hard justifies being rewarding. That's basic game design/balance.

Trick to beating the Nurse once you're spotted seems to be breaking Line of Sight and then keeping her guessing what you are going to do next once you are out of her LOS. Beating her is all about the mind games which most people don't even grasp the fundamentals of.

She's in a wierd place as she's abysmally horrid to play when learning her, so most people won't bother. But those who do get god tier with her are near-impossible to beat.

Rewarding =/= OP.

Something doesn't get the right to being unbalanced because it's hard to learn. Learning one character in specific doesn't make you entitled to win all the time.

I think it just comes to a point where you need to question your balance decisions, you know.

The top two killers in this game essentially are top tiers because of the sheer amount of agency they remove from survivors.

The only thing that limits a good Nurse's potential is the player themselves. A lot of top players have been saying that for ages. And the same sort of applies for Spirit when sounds are not broken. And pre-rework Legion was pretty much that too, with the impossible to lose chases + Legion being Legion in the pipping system, people were abusing the hell out of them to pip.

And the bottom tier killers suffer from the opposite, they have too much agency taken away from them.

That's not healthy design/balance and that's what they should be aiming to change. I think the recent reworks are a step in the right direction.

Hope you're proud of yourself. Now go back getting ass-blasted by the first Nurse you play against because running in circles is the only thing you're capable of.

######### great. I love they are rock hard on Nurse and Billy. They are legitimately the only Killers that have a reasonable chance.

She isn't considered unbeatable it is just that the skill required to beat her isn't something you just have in the low ranks of the game. The higher in rank you go the more skilled the survivors become and the more coordinated teams you face. There is a saying I like from Tru3talent, "Strong survivors can make any strong killer look weak."

Now, that does take a lot of work against a high level nurse player, but you do see it.

I know this might sound hard to believe, but Scott is a just a regular player like the rest of us. He isn't a dev that has access to stats and stuff.

Could it be that, oh my God, maybe twitchers and youtubers aren't always right? Granted Scott is a great player. But I don't always agree with things he says. Case in point, there are plenty of people here downvoting his comments because people disagree with him.

Stop putting people on pedestals.

well omega blinks are good against good swfs if she has some huge map, but 5 blinks are bad against some good ones.

That's why nurse needs an add on rework imo

Imagine having one of the better killer players in the game give you insight, then turning around and telling him he is wrong 😄

How many rounds of blinks can you dodge from a decent Nurse before she downs you? Does it EVER take more time than any other killer? On average, is there any killer who can down you faster? With the map pressure she has too?

Glad that's the experience you have, but I'm willing to bet it's not the same for the gigantic majority of players.

Taking into account that with the right setup it should take at least over 40 seconds for any other killer to down you (barring outliers like Spirit or Hag with proper setup), I heavily doubt she takes more than that in average.

I'm sorry, to make it clear: every time I talk about balance, I'm talking about red ranks, because every game should be balanced around the highest level first.

And I still think what I said applies to the highest level in this game.

That's perfectly fair. I honestly believe that until we have a proper ranking system and statistics not affected by the absolutely disgusting disconnect numbers, having any discussion about balance is pretty tough. And Nurse definitely doesn't care about whether you're a solo or not as much as other killers, so I can see why you can "carry yourself" as survivor against her more often than against some others.

In my mind, I do think the Nurse removes too much agency from survivors, the same way good survivors remove agency from weaker killers. Balancing an asymetrical game is tricky, and I do think that if we're ever gonna get a killer balance pass (which seems pretty unlikely at this point) she deserves some nerfs, along with one or two more killers, while most of the killer roster deserves to be buffed.

EDIT: and in the same way that some survs get carried to red ranks by SWF, I know for a fact that it's pretty easy for someone hardstuck at purple ranks playing bad killers can just whip out a pocket Nurse and skyrocket to rank 1. I believe that's a problem in itself. You should either have to be dedicated at a killer to climb with them or be able to climb with anyone if you're good at killer in general (which I think is more fair).

Because this shiy doesnt work against good nurses

@weirdkid5 Oh, I know. Only Nurses using the most try hard builds were able to win. But to be fair, the depip squad were being try hard as well.

I want to see some new experiments. Games where both sides are using relatively normal setups. This will give us a better idea of how easily the scale can tip.

Also, I wouldn't mind seeing a SWF team versing Zubat's Nurse. A lot of people tend to think he's one of the best all-around killers, so the anti Nurse people won't have any ammunition if Zubat is beaten.

In other words, the Nurse haters are stating a good Nurse cannot be beaten. I want to give them a chance to prove it.

@weirdkid5 I still want to see some experiments with good Nurses. We need a wide array of experiments to truly gauge how strong a Nurse can be. If you get a skilled group of survivors to beat a really good Nurse (ex. Zubat) over and over, then that shows Nurse isn't overpowered like people think. The only good Nurse I can recall the depip squad beating was Blinky Bill. We need more than just one match.

For the record, I would guess that any Nurse can be beaten. I recall Blinky losing a game or two during his streams. Of course, the footage for these games is lost as far as I know.

Really? I find her to be the easiest killer to escape a chase from. While it's definitely true that nurses down me faster than any other killer on average, I without a doubt lose nurses more often than I lose any other killer.

@weirdkid5

You're probably right about the experiments being unrealistic. I said it would be helpful to conduct these experiments, but I realize how difficult setting up all this would be.

Unfortunately, the community most likely won't reach a majority consensus about Nurse (at least not without strong evidence).

I'm not sure what the devs are going to do about Sally. My guess is when the game becomes more and more balanced, there will be a greater number of people calling for Nurse reworks.

We'll have to see how that plays out.

The only issue I have with Nurse is blink addons that give her more blinks.

I mean even when Nurse had base 3 blinks when she originally came out I was honestly perfectly fine with it.

This game is not for pc users only.

See how horrible her performance she is on ps4 and xbox.

She is the weakest killer in ps4 and xbox.

I will put it bluntly.

Reason why killers like billy and nurse are op is not cause they have op powers, yes with addons they are insanely strong though, but because they can apply a super strong pressure everywhere on the map.