ScottJund with some valuable advice for DbD’s Future
TL:DW
There needs to be an unbiased team, either paid or volunteer, that at the meetings where they discuss ideas for changes for the game give their feed back on if it’s a good change/addition or not.
The devs have shown on multiple occasions they don’t make changes that the community particularly likes, and concepts for killers/perks that are really bad. This team would prevent those ideas from making it to the PTB and save them a lot of time fixing things that are so bad they need to be reworked.
For instance if they made another killer like ghostface this team could tell them that the perks are really bad and won’t be used and the power could use some tweaking before they actually start development.
Overall this would cause less backlash and a more efficient use of dev time.
Comments
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The devs shouldn't need an unbiased team because THEY should unbiased.
The best thing for this game is to give it to another developer at this point.
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While I won’t deny a different dev team could do better we gotta work with what we got, and this unbiased team would know all of the high level things about the game.
I can tell you didn’t watch the video and I think you should to get a better understanding of the concept.
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It's actually not bad advice. I'd volunteer to sign an NDA to give free well thought out advice on upcoming content.
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Sure, whatever. Anything that improves this game at all is welcomed at this point.
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This.
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That shouldn't make them immune to criticism.
And that doesn't mean they're above requesting input from experienced players like the overwhelming majority of games that require balancing.
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+1 I agree with the video, it's a really good idea.
The devs need to watch this video a few times and really take it to heart.
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Why don’t they use the fog whisperers in some capacity for feedback before stuff goes live?
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This is what I was recommending as well.
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Based on past experiences with this game?
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That would be a great idea. If some of the fog whisperers weren't biased towards the survivors side as well.
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I'd prefer they use the Fog Whisperers that play both sides at high ranks. IE Truetalent for one example.
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I'm just being cynical for the sake of it.
Seriously though, BHVR should be paying their own QA team that actually has people who understand the nuances of balance and understanding of game design.
The community shouldn't have to volunteer. Someone else said some junk about them being the only studio to make a successful asymmetrical game.
They are also the only studio that doesn't seem to properly test their games before even public tests because lack of a competent QA team.
The reason is because if they did, Ghostface would have never even been put into testing. The QA team should already know his perks are going to be useless. They need an unbiased team? Yeah, I guess that is correct.
They need a proper QA team.
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The fact Ghost face got through as is in the design phase shows they do need a lot more input on killers and abilities.
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This is under the assumption that this game doesn't have a focus group and has never consulted other dev teams.
I find it highly unlikely that Scott's idea is novel. For all we know, we already have one, they gave their opinion, and this first iteration is the product of that. Having a focus group doesn't guarantee that their opinions will change anything either.
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If that is the case i'll be blunt and say their QA isn't doing their job or isn't properly equipped to do it.
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That could work, but the dev team has a lot of things stacked against them where we can claim they have a survivor bias.
So really, fog whisperers criticism would most likely be ignored as far as killer is concerned. Ghostface is just latest example.
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Admittedly, it is under that assumption. Cause if they actually have a focus group and consult other dev teams, then their end result is even more unforgiveable.
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Both sides will claim whatever bias if something happens that doesn't serve their side. Don't start with that #########. Anyone here for longer than thirty seconds can see that.
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Actually yeah that would be worse because they would have feedback but went with it anyway despite the end product being bad.
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I've been saying this for a year. So many times we've seen a perk or event announced where players will poke holes showing a fatal flaw in the system (Halloween event). Each time, the players turn out to be right and BHVR has to make corrections. Most of the time it is obvious issues to players that reveal a sloppy quality control function within BHVR.
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Who?
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Lol you guys 🤣😂 No group (lol biased or not) is go to agree 100% on anything. What may look and sound good on paper may not always translate well. Especially in a game like this with so many moving parts. Things will always have to be reexamed, reworked, or redone. That's just the nature of this game. The Devs have created many great things such as the Collapse and many other things people have asked for (Freddy rework for example). At the end of the day, it's still there game like it or not.
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"No group (lol biased or not) is go to agree 100% on anything."
No one has said they would, that isn't the point here at all.
The point is experienced feedback on their ideas and to give them an idea of how the community would receive things.
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Saw this vid earlier when he posted it and found myself nodding the entire time. It should be a common sense approach... like, this should already be a given. Hopefully the devs take notice and give it ample thought.
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Id be down to Volunteer for something like this.
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Exactly this, we know what we want and them trying to do their own ideas usually never turns out that great. Then when they fix it to what we say it almost always turns out right.
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Same!
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I would volunteer as well. I agree with everything Scottjund has said in his video. I even nominate him, if possible, to be provide feedback to the dev team. I even thought that's what the eight fog whisperers went to Canada to do, test things out.
He also wants to balance the game for both sides and he's never come off as biased to me considering I mostly play one side and he plays and understands both.
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They're all biased toward their own side; not just survivor lmao.
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I do agree that getting outside advice would be immensely beneficial for the DBD team. The problem is, "who?" I mean, look at this forum. People who have spent thousands of hours on this game are almost always, always constantly disagreeing with each other - everyone loves this game, and is passionate about its concept, but how often do people agree? Sure, there have been times when we all identified and agreed that something is a "bad" idea, but for the most part, almost everyone (even the "most experienced") have had different ideas on how to fix it. Both the developers and those of us on the forums always talk about "the community" as if we are one entity with one cohesive idea, but that's rarely the case.
I would gather that mostly everyone thinks they know how to make DBD the best game possible. And I believe that they all sincerely believe that they have the best ideas. Observing the forum though, I would also bet that mostly everyone would have different ideas on how to go on about it, and many of them would conflict with each others' ideas. So again, "Who?"
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I find it really hard to be unbiased though. Not saying I disagree with all of you but you know even if they are unbiased. People will make it as a biased thing when they aren't and it's tough. The game has already incorporated the killer vs survivor mindset. Is there anything that could change that fact?
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I was watching a Fog Whisperer after ghostface came out on PTB.
He put it best. The devs don’t care about what you think. They care about your wallet. They care about pumping out skins and as much as possible. Because people will buy and then complain about the game afterwards.
Everyone talking about how bad Ghostface is, but guarantee most will still buy him. That’s a problem.
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He's right. Like Scott said, it's insane that Legion and Ghostface got so far in development like they were/are. Ghostface has killer breaking issues that are apparent within 30 seconds of gameplay to an experienced player. How is that even possible when we're 2 weeks from launch? It's ok if their talents lie in development and not actually playing or understanding the game from a killer/survivor counterplay perspective, but they need to have the humility as an organization to accept that and seek outside input if that's the case. If they whiff on Freddy, we'll be looking at a whole year without a high tier viable killer.
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Who is ScottJund, and basically you want a group of random people to enjoy all the perks of being the Devs, without actually needing to go through all the hardwork required of being a Dev.
Basically, you want to call the shots and then make the Devs do your work for you.
How about NO.
if ScottJund wants to make the perfect hide and seek killer game, he should make his own game.
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@not_Queen @Peanits @Patricia @literallyallofBHVRstudios
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I kinda doubt they would actually do something like this. And even if the wanted to I don't think they could allow normal people to do it because of NDA.
But if at the very least this makes them realize their community knows what they want in their game, that should be good enough for all of us.
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If you had watched the video you would know he livestreams DbD on a regular basis and no that is not what that is at all.
At most this would just be a few community members like the Fog Whisperers or something that could have direct contact with the people that do develop the game and tell them whether or not they like their ideas and if it is something they think the DbD community would want to have so we don't have situations like with Ghost Face and his perks being so garbage.
Seriously did you even read anything I typed or even clicked on the video? Not sure what I am expecting you to take away from this reply if that is the case but, no that is not what Scott said in the video at all.
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In paper, it would work.
In reality, as soon as the pseudo-chosen ones leave BHVR's facility they'll rush to their computers and start making videos about what's coming next and what not, contributing to the uproar, unreasonable hype, unmet expectations and general disappointment.
All just over some ideas thrown around.
It would only work if they were BHVR's employees, signing contracts guaranteeing no leaks and all.
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Well we know how they are with leaks....
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Remember when MoM was leaked? Survivor reaction was "This is going to be awesome". Killers reaction was "this is going to be horrible". What was it like when it was finally released and we got to test it? Exactly what we thought!
Biased or unbiased, many of us know the game well enough to read a design or idea and have a reasonable understanding of whether it really weak or really strong.
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Other companies are consulting with pro players, so why not? In the group of Fog Whisperers there are surely some players who would be fit for giving advice.
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Just because he livestreams DBD doesn't make him an important person. I have always found it funny how today's generation of gamers idolize streamers but in my book he is a nobody in terms of DBD game development.
"a few community members like the Fog Whisperers or something that could have direct contact with the people that do develop the game and tell them whether or not they like their ideas and if it is something they think the DbD community would want to have so we don't have situations like with Ghost Face and his perks being so garbage."Sounds like telling the devs what they can and can't do.
He does not deserve to advise the DBD team on what they can and can't do.
And no, I don't watch videos like that, sorry.
Call me ignorant, but my point is the Devs need him to tell them what to do as much as they need any of us here on the forums to tell them what to do. He isn't special, if he wants to give the Devs a piece of his mind, he can post in the Wishlist and Balance forums just like everyone else.
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@Mochan sorry if this comes off as rude as there isn't really any better way to word this, but the post is literally about the video so if you refuse to watch it then what's even the point of responding to this? It's like pretending to be a surgeon without having any experience or even basic knowledge of it whatsoever. It's also like pretending to be a critic of a movie or a book you never read, or pretending to know the answers to real world problems without any experience or knowledge in any of those fields either.
Second of all, Scott doesn't even support the idea of the game being a hide and seek game whatsoever, he actually favors the game being more chase orientated. The other thing to keep in mind is that just because someone makes a suggestion people like does not mean they idolize the person who made the idea, they just agree with it. Literally nobody is explicitly saying he is more or less important, just that he has an idea they agree with.
Infact, in the video he explicitly states that he isn't even throwing himself into the ring and that his video is purely a suggestion meaning that your first comment doesn't even make any sense. The suggestion he made is actually something a number of other games do to know what will excite their players and deliver what they want at the same time.
Literally what you're saying is that people should not try to make suggestions and that if they do then it should only be on one of the many platforms there are out there. Mind you that M'cote has even said himself on the year 3 stream and on many other occasions that DbD stopped being just their game from the moment they released it meaning that players can capitalize on this by providing their own feedback by any reasonable means to help them improve their game overall and that is exactly what Scott did by making his video.
You could gain a lot out of watching it, especially where you're commenting on a post that's dedicated to that video. Otherwise again I have to ask what the point even is of posting on this thread.
I do understand that might've came off rude, but I don't think I could've worded that any better.
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Great idea.. However if this ever happened i hope it's better people then who was chosen for the fog whisperers. If you every actually watch them the are some of the most toxic people in the game.
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Just pinging you all so you can have a read here because ScottJund makes a really good point.
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Wow God forbid a player with some kind of exposure uses it to suggest a good change to the devs
Better only use exposure for ######### memes and clickbaity titles right
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I understand the frustration comes from Ghostface's design, but we shouldn't discount every other killer that the devs have released that were done properly.
When Plague came out her design wasn't as bad as Ghostface's, for example. She needed to be tweaked here and there, but that's about it.
I do agree that there should be some kind of a whitelist somewhere between conceptual state - to - PTB, that could get asked opinions on stuff. I think they should pick people who are mostly positive and open minded... and who understand the game more than most.
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I agree, I think there were alot of high profile streamers that knew about and play tested Apex Legends about a year before release.
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