The second iteration of 2v8 is now LIVE - find out more information here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/480-2v8-developer-update

Core chase mechanics rework

We all know this game has a lot of issues. Gen rush, insane loops, impossible to juke killers (as opposed to the possible to juke killers that also exist) ect. Here are a bunch of changes to help fix some ofthem:

Scratchmarks rework:

Scratchmarks now do not always appear while running. They instead only appear under specific circumstances. Those are:

  • When a survivor initially starts sprinting scratchmarks appear at their location
  • While running if a survivor touches a vertical object such as a wall or tree scratchmarks appear on that object. This includes windows when fast/medium vaulting over them

This is important, since the way scratchmarks are right now it is nearly (but not entirely) impossible to lose the Killer in a chase. Instead your primary method of winning a chase as a survivor is to stall the Killer.

With this change scratchmarks are more of something that can be avoided with proper play and more to give the Killer a sign of an action occurring than to actually be relied on for following a Survivor.

Sounds:

While crouching and injured you make much less noise than you normally would.

Otherwise just fix survivor sounds being basically silent most of the time.

Movement speed:

First of all for survivors

  • Crawling speed increased to 1 M/S up from 0.7 M/S
  • Crouching speed increased to 1.5 M/S up from 1.13 M/S
  • Walking speed increased to 3 M/S up from 2.26 M/S
  • Running speed unchanged

Next for Killers

  • Nurse, Spirit, Hag and Hillbilly have their MS unchanged
  • Myers has his movement speed changed to EW1 = 4.4 M/S, EW2 = 4.6 M/S and EW3 = 4.8 M/S
  • All other kills have their movement speed increased by 0.2 M/S
  • Bloodlust is removed entirely

This is the core change to prevent looping. Everyone moves faster and thus can get to Survivors through loops faster. Most chases can be shut down pretty easily if you had a permanent bloodlust effect after all.

Additionally this also helps get the sped up killers much more map pressure.

The top tiers I mentioned are already really good and don't need this change, and thus they don't get it.

At the same time

Windows:

  • Killer vault speed decreased by 0.2 seconds for every killer besides Myers. That means base vaulting speed is 1.9 seconds.
  • Bamboozle is made basekit and lasts for 10 seconds. The perk itself lets you block a 2nd window at the same time and makes the durrection 4/8/12 seconds longer, and it still lets you vault faster but with the boost increased to 25% with all of these changes that would be 1.52 seconds.
  • Entity blockers from the Survivor vaulting is removed since the Killer can block the windows himself
  • Survivor medium vault speed decreased by 0.1 seconds. Fast vault is unchanged

Again, if jukes are required then windows need a longer "window" of opportunity to make a play. For use in loops the speed increase of most Killers should have a much larger effect than this. Medium vault slowed down to make a fast vault more rewarding in comparison for pulling these jukes off.

Basekit Bamboozle instead of the current Entity blocker method means that a Killer is more likely to vault in the first place thus giving more chances to try a juke, while at the same time making loops be shut down faster than the current system. It also has the bonus effect of bypassing issues with the fickle chase detection system.

Pallets:

Just do the rework mentioned in the anniversary stream. The mechanics and numbers behind it are fine, just fix the spawn locations.

All of these changes are designed to make it easier for a Survivor to get back into hiding from a chase, but harder for them to stall for time if they can't do it quickly. The idea is NOT to give Killers an easy win nor is it to give Survivors an easy escape.

Now there is likely some obvious flaw somewhere here. If you find one then please just bring it up so we can try to revise around it instead of just dismissing the ideas entirely, since that won't get us anywhere.

Comments

  • Tru3Lemon
    Tru3Lemon Member Posts: 1,358

    The problem its the map design also too much safe pallets i like that they are making unsafe pallets but they gonna put more pallets i dislike that, to stop the gen rush they need to make a 2nd objective so that killers dont need to use soo much ruin and can make good builds also they need to do some map rework and they are going to do it so i hope they do it right the next part they need to focus its buff useless perk or a rework and thats it

  • PwnyFish
    PwnyFish Member Posts: 70

    I disagree with everything

  • NuclearBurrito
    NuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    @PwnyFish please explain why. Just saying you don't like it isn't useful information

  • DBDbuildsYT
    DBDbuildsYT Member Posts: 1,042

    I like this, anything that removes the Benny Hill shenanigans has my approval

  • Raptorrotas
    Raptorrotas Member Posts: 3,249
    • So survivors could sneak around faster but dont have to becauwer running like headless chicken will not be as visible as before.
    • Adjustment of killer speed while making lots of exceptions... All killers could use those 0.2 increase. Yes, even nurse.
    • Why the decrease in vaulting speed? And another exception.
    • Making injured survivors quieter...

    Im probably too biased to see how most of these changes could be considered good by anyone.

  • Slayer
    Slayer Member Posts: 1,148
    edited June 2019

    Learn how to juke instead of complaining about something you simply dont know how to pull out.

  • NuclearBurrito
    NuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    @Raptorrotas the exceptions are because the top tier Killers don't have an issue with MS. And thus the increase is just buffing where it isn't needed.

    The decrease in vault speed is explained in the thread itself. The reason for the Myers being an exception is because extra vault speed is supposed to be one of his core benifits, so it would make sense for him to maintain the current vault speed instead

    As for injured survivors quieter, it's only while crouching which is part of why crouching is a bit faster.

    Really the reason why the survivor walking speed increase is important really just comes down to sound. While right now doesn't matter anyways, but if they fix the sounds (which they should do) then it would be far more important.

  • PwnyFish
    PwnyFish Member Posts: 70
    edited June 2019

    The scratch mark changes make no sense. They are the main tool of killers to find survivors. Without them it will be impossible to find any survivor.

    Now you say there should still be scratch marks on objects. This will do 1 of 2 things. Either the change will do exactly nothing compared to now. Or it will make the killer role unplayable cause without scratch marks, there is no game to be played.

    The movement speed changes seem to be super random. Increasing the killers movementspeed from 115% to 120% is way to strong.

    The thing I wouldnt mind is increasing survivors crawling speed. It might make the slugging game a bit more interesting.

    I mean, all these speed changes are just extremly random and its unlikely that will do any good. So at the end of the day, some of these changes might work out, but they completly change the current balance of the game to a rather unpredictable outcome. This means changing all this, would only be steps backwards, cause we would have to reevaluate everything again and start balancing from that new point again, essentially just giving more work and changing nothing.


    There you have my explanation why I disagree with everything..

  • tehshadowman33
    tehshadowman33 Member Posts: 939

    @NuclearBurrito

    Making scratchmarks only visible if a survivor touches a wall would make large maps unplayable.

    I cannot even imagine how one would deal with Temple of Purgation.

    It would become mandatory that killer run Whispers perk.

    That sounds awful dude.

    =(


    In retrospect, you'd have to INCREDIBLY buff the inactivity crows. We're talking like 1 crow every 15 seconds of a survivor doing nothing.

  • Poweas
    Poweas Member Posts: 5,873

    I agree, good idea tbh. It would work. The walking speed is a bit much, 3 m/s is insane and would butcher Spirit if they have Iron will.

  • Tru3Lemon
    Tru3Lemon Member Posts: 1,358

    why buffs for survivors they only thing they need its rework most of the useless perks and probably kindred be a basekit thats it they dont need buffs for theyre basekit

  • NuclearBurrito
    NuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    @Tru3Lemon to give an alternative chase method after buffing Killers to easily ignore their main one (looping)

  • ReikoMori
    ReikoMori Member Posts: 3,333

    Most of these changes seems to do nothing that deals with how chases actually work. Neither side truly benefits and map design isn't taken into account. Also every killer by default moving like pre nerf Legion, but the vaulting like post nerf Legion just seems random. Survivors sounds are constant broken from the killer side so making them even quieter just for crouch is basically telling killers they need to use Stridor all the time. Scratchmarks are one of the most misleading bits of information that survivor produces. Yet, they are the only thing that makes large maps playable in terms of searching and keeping track of running survivors. Crawling speed doesn't need a buff as slugging isn't supposed to be interesting. It shouldn't even need to happen, but considering how most things happen too fast as it is we gotta do it.

  • NuclearBurrito
    NuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    @ReikoMori Old legion moved at either 4.4 M/S or 5.28 M/S depending on frenzy and new Legion moves at either 4.6 M/S or 5.0 M/S depending on frenzy.

    How exactly does most killers moving at 4.8 M/S make them like either version of Legion? It's just permanent tier 1 bloodlust (which to be fair is a big deal).

  • NuclearBurrito
    NuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    Also I am aware that the sounds in general would need to be fixed for any of this to work. I even said so in the OP that the sounds in general need to be fixed. And again.

    INJURED NOISES WOULD ONLY BE QUIETED IF YOU ARE CROUCHING. OTHERWISE IT WOULD BE LIKE NORMAL.

  • miaasma
    miaasma Member Posts: 911

    most of the issues around "looping" stem from bad map design (pseudo infinites like the ironworks window, stupidly strong setup spawns, etc.)

    if that gets addressed you could just remove bloodlust

  • Kiskashi
    Kiskashi Member Posts: 1,043
    edited June 2019

    4.8m/s ew3 Myers with the best vault speed sounds terrifying, if anything ew2 should have the boosted speed for increasing map distance covered (as he spends a majority of the match in this tier anyway) and ew3 have the normal (4.6m/s) (is usually used after seeing the survivor/initiating a chase)

    Everything else I'm kind of neutral on and basically is a result of the direction of the game. Map reworks might fix the looping issue, if they realise there shouldn't need to be 15-20 pallets per map just because they're removing one strong one. Otherwise think poweas and tehshadowman33, pwnyfish above have good points.

  • NuclearBurrito
    NuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    Oh no. Anything but a Killer in a horror game being terrifying. What ever shall we do.

  • Kiskashi
    Kiskashi Member Posts: 1,043
    edited June 2019

    You know what I meant, good to know your response though.

  • Breadz
    Breadz Member Posts: 59

    What are these changes? Its super easy to mindgame pallets and windows as killer. The only killers that need their speed buffed is nurse and deathslinger. Nurse running slower than survivors is a little dumb in my opinion because it makes her blink basically every second or else she looses distance and then allows survivors to mindgame to much. Deathslinger's ability is a little weak so they could give him a speed buff so hes not a worse huntress.