SWF Ruins this game
It promotes greifing, toxicity and bullying the solo role. It does nothing to actually improve the game besides appealing to toxic bullys who like to make other people feel bad. Survivors already have many many many perks that are better then any killer perks,a dn then SWF is thrown on top of it, on top of all of the items and addons, tool boxes and insta heal medkits, that its a ######### joke why anyone would play killer.
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I enjoy playing Freddy is why I play killer. (Lookin’ forward to the rework).
In the current state of the game it goes: SWF>Killer>solo
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SWF doesn't promote any of that. That's down to specific people. 90% of SWF players are just normal skilled survivors chatting with their friends while they play. In fact - you'd be surprised how often when I play survivor and we win, the killer says "nice SWF" before leaving post game chat - when we're solos.
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I want to enjoy playing a killer, but as soon as you start hitting green ranks or higher the SWF's come out of the word work, loaded up with OP perks and busing voice communication and it just ruins the experince for me. Its a constant cycle. I want to like this game. It has so much potential. BUt the Devs refuse to balance it around the cancer they created and refuse to get rid of second chance perks that are just becoming super meta, and unless your very specific killers, you can't do ######### about it.
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Look...
I understand you are frustrated but let's be real here..
If you were in a group with survivors that die day on day on day every year.
Wouldn't you want to cooperate? Talk to the rest of the team? And try to survive the trial that you were picked to do?
SWF exists because we want to play with our friends, But if the entity was real and picked you to be in the next Trial IRL... I bet you 100% you would try to make friends with the other survivors and survive with them face to face (Like the SWF feature in Game).
And yes I'm basing this off of reality.
We all want to survive. So don't get mad at SWF. Don't get mad at anything. Not every one likes playing Solo.
And everyone wants to survive. It's our instinct.
just blame our Instincts of becoming friends and wanting to survive.
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I am currently green ranked, the only perk that is really OP imo is MoM but it is getting a nerf. Fun is subjective so killer Isn’t for everyone.
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Solo really isn't that bad.
Until you get a squad like I ran across yesterday, who used a key to escape the hatch.
No wonder the Jake I saw randomly left the gen and got out, like instantly when the hatch opened. Was pretty salty.
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Where you got that number? Grabbed from the air? Thought so.
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@TreemanXD If you are talking about power, I have to disagree. As long as the survivors play decently, they don't need voice com to still be the power role.
SWF > solo > killer
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@NoShinyPony that is true but most solo players don’t play well.
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@TreemanXD Yeah, but "not playing well" is just lack of skill and doesn't have anything to do with balance. Balance-wise, solo survs are stronger than killers.
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@NoShinyPony you’re correct
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"Survive with friends is for toxic bullies who like to make other people feel bad"
I disagree most survive with friends play for fun now are there a select few who play sweaty of course also if a video game is making you feel bad it seems you take the game way to serious than what it is.
"Survivors already have many many many perks that are better then any killer perks"
I actually disagree there i play both sides of the game survivors actually have a smaller selection in terms of meta than killers do theres not a lot of variety for survivors to choose from.
"on top of all of the items and addons, tool boxes and insta heal medkits"
Now here id like to point out insta heals are broken i agree they should get the BNP treatment as for toolboxes id only argue the commodious with repair speed is a problem and could use some adjusting.
"that its a [BAD WORD] joke why anyone would play killer."
I play killer more than i play survivor i actually enjoy playing killer again this goes back to my first statement caring about winning and losing is actually very bad for a game like dead by daylight because right now its nothing more than a party game it really is now if the devs want to take the route of competitive so be it but right now its a party game and should be treated as such if you take the game to serious of course you are not gonna have fun learn to lighten up and just play to have fun and not let a video game upset you.
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@Heroiq You can still win with wasting pallets and wasting some time sitting around doing nothing without the killer having to play bad.
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@Heroiq If you are basically playing a 3 vs 1 game, then yes, winning is hard. I was talking about wasting SOME time and dropping pallets too early, not one person doing absolutely nothing or dc'ing early in the match.
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At this point, SWF is a necessary evil and we'll never remove it but something really needs to be done.
Having an lobby indicator of who's in a SWF (and with who) plus adding an incentive for killers (and solo survivors) to play with SWFs, that would be a step in a good direction.
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Most solos get ######### by teammates, especially if they're swf. I'm the only one in my swf group that will save randoms, because I've been that person. I know that I play with people who aren't serious, we don't even really talk about the game.
Also had that key thing happen to me. Thankfully the killer didn't close the hatch as I was the last one and I managed to escape, but man was I salty at them. They even messaged me after the game, like no thanks you did your damage so leave me alone now.
As killer, I don't care. If I notice someone being the odd man-out, I don't tryhard against them. I target off the others and let that last guy escape. Swfs are cruel.
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Is it just me, or does it feel like other SWF groups are:
"Red-1, I see Myers headed in your direction. If you leave through the northwest window you should be able to stay unseen."
"This is Red-3. I'm at T-wall alpha, in need of healing."
"Myers is currently in pursuit, chasing me on the east side of the map. Generator bravo-3 is 92% complete. Make sure to wait until he hits me to pop it for maximum Adrenaline pwnage."
Then I play SWF, and I'm like:
"I saw the hatch! It's between these two walls, kind of near the carnival area. Not like right near it, but in that area of the map. I think it's on the left side, maybe by a T-wall structure." (He was not able to find the hatch from that description and was sacrificed.)
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If you straight up want SWF removed you should probably just quit the game as it's not going anywhere and you're wasting time, emotional energy and keystrokes campaigning against it. The only thing it "encourages" is playing with friends, it's up to the players what they do with that. Realize this isn't some tournament-viable eSports balanced game and that there's tons of straight up unbalanced stuff in it, or find a game that fits your mindset better.
If you just want stuff like bonus BP for playing against them or solos to be buffed then killers that need it then I can agree. But I'm honestly done with even arguing about the actual removal of SWF as it's an absurd and unrealistic request to begin with.
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@Heroiq I'm a survivor main and in the majority of these matches I play solo or only in a 2-men-SWF. I know how often random teammates dc early and ruin the match. But that hasn't anything to do with balance.
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Mine is both of those with a mixture of “what did you say?”
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With lots of screaming and random sounds plus really random conversations. xD
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all swf promotes is playing with your friends
some people get their rocks off by running broken maps and syringes
let them fly their egos around like a kite for a game and go next
most groups just screw around in my experience
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Yes! XD
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What really ruins the game is the constant whining about every single thing someone doesn't like on either side.
The game is doing really well and has been growing.
The forums are a very tiny minority of the userbase which tends to say the vast majority don't care, just play and enjoy it.
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Omg wait. Do I play with you? It's like you know. xD
Can say I'm with a group that gives zero ######### about doing well. I'm the only one that consistently pips (and they might kick me out for it :O).
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I do believe that SWF ruins the game but... What we gonna do? I'm a killer main but I'm enjoy to have a good time with my friends when we play survivors, including other games. I don't think there's much they can do
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@Pike_Trickfoot we all pip and I don’t know who pips the most.:p
We don’t care too much, as long as we had fun.
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@TreemanXD I'm like the parent of the group, which is why I pip. I clean up their messes and get zero thanks for it. And I have to make sure they behave towards each other. It's more work than being a solo or a killer sometimes. But they're entertaining..... oh god, is this what having children is going to be like?🤔
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Pretty much!
If one of my guys tries healing me under the hook or trips a hag trp, they have to play through the rest of the trial while hearing the "Baby shark" song. Aversion therapy ftw!
On the subject of SWF, no it's not going to go anywhere, and if it did, we'd be back to lobby dodging while people sought to be with their friends anyway. I do recognise that there are groups that do their best to screw with killers and indeed solo survivors. I had a 3man block me in until the killer came for no other reason than s**t's and giggles.
However a good portion are a bunch of friends giggling nervously at a generator while trying to look behind them in several different directions at once. And those people shouldn't be punished simply because of the ones who can't play the game like a grown up.
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Unfortunately, I think they would enjoy it if I played "baby shark" and sing along and just annoy me more. I literally scold them when they do something toxic and get hooked for it before getting them off. If one of them refuses to save another and I'm busy, I use my authority over them to guilt them into saving the other. The only way I ever punished them was in kyf where I was killer and just stomped on them. xD
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XD
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I got lucky, the other team member hates the song and threatens chainsaw buggery on the culprit if they dare do it next game:D
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What people imagine SWF comms are like:
-Agent 1; "I need a location on the Hex totem!"
-Agent 2: "Totem spotted near cow tree! I'll get his attention!"
-Agents 3 and 4: "Rushing gens!"
The 4 man SWF I play with:
-Player 1: "What starts and ends with T and has T inside?"
-Player 2: "Uh...I think it's a Billy. Yeah, it is."
-Player 1: "A teapot"
-Player 3: "I'm about to go into second state."
-Player 4: "Oh...my bad. Are any gens about done?"
Point being..competent solo teams will make you think you went against SWF and you've stomped a lot of SWF that you didn't know were SWF.
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And don't forget that a SWF group can control the rank that is used for their matchmaking: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519985/#Comment_519985
[Matchmaking for SWF will] use the rank of whoever started the group for matchmaking purposes.
Have the lowest ranked member open the group and you will get easier games.
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While I rarely get after game messages (PS4) the very few times I play with my friend we typically talk about other games, life or something unrelated to DBD. Sure SWF (even the ones who are not playing "ultra-instinct") do get a ton of information for free and it does make the game easier, but most don't care for being toxic.
As a solo player 99% of the time (prefer playing killer) I rarely find SWF groups leave me hanging either. If I know one SWF member is on a hook and I'm on a hook I can accept that its more than likely they will save their friend first, but even then an attempt is almost always made to get me.
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Provide proof otherwise. Can you? No? Thought so.
This. Exactly freaking this.
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" Survivors already have many many many perks that are better then any killer perks" are you serious? if you really think like this, you must be really bad. You know that as the nurse, you can end match in few seconds? Of course if you are good. What about builds like for example huntress with one shots + noed + ruin + red mori? Trust me I saw a lot of tryhards in my life :) expecially when you are playing with randoms...there is no way to win a match if your random team is stupid.
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SWF keep the game alive. It's needed.
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SWF from my experiences are rarely well coordinated hit squads. Yes they occur, but far from the majority. Most SWFs are just friends playing together, having fun, and giving each other useless directions.
The last time my wife and I ran SWF:
Me: I am being chased.
Wife: Where are you?
M: Running right past you, watch out for the ki.....
W: (profanity that will not be shared)
M: I will get the couch ready to sleep on tonight. Remember I love you
W: You are dead to me.
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I'm new to this game, but not to gaming in general. The only down side I see with SWFs is that if they become too prevalent people will just stop playing killer and the lobby waits will become overbearing. Or you'll just get killers DCing. Sure, the survivors will get the points for the round, but none of the fun.
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Step 1 remove the ingame chat
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Player 2: "Uh...I think it's a Billy. Yeah, it is."
This is literally my friend (followed by/while getting chainsawed) I play duo SWF with, also them saying "what you gonna do?" repeatedly to the killer while running around an object/tree followed by getting promptly downed, just the other day they were playing as Jane (they're a Jane main, a rare species) and they asked why the trapper went for them when we were both at a ruin gen and I said he wants that booty he's down with the thickness, and as soon as they started singing down with the thickness they stepped in a trap. We were losing it. 😂
I'm loving how full of accuracy these SWF experience posts are, it's literally like they end up sabotaging you more than anything, I feel the "buddy runs past you while you're healing with the killer on them" ones on a spiritual level.
I get that some SWF squads can really abuse the game (it's dbd, what doesn't get abused really...) but most just use it to have fun with friends, I don't think removing it entirely is the way to go, more so compensation and notification as se05239 mentioned:
Alleviating the stress/punishment of the co-ordinated SWF experience is the better way to go, bp bonuses, maybe shards /letting killers keep some addons/black pipping at least if it's a 3 man/full 4 man etc.
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What killers think me and my friends are:
What we actually are:
"So how was work?"
"Uhhh, it was okay. Slow day. I hope there's no Ruin."
"If I spawn next to you I'm dropping the pallet, hahaha."
"I dare you #########. Oh there's Ruin."
"AAAAH I RAN INTO THE KILLER, IT'S PEPPA"
"LOL! Don't die so fast this time"
"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH ######### eat that wood!!! WOW she hit me through it!!!"
"Haha I'm gonna watch you getting #########."
"I got you a present. I'm bringing her to you!"
"######### you, I need my daily."
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Pips don't make most people happy or unhappy. It's toxicity.
While it's questionable whether teabagging should be dealt with... the first step is taking a zero/low tolerance policy on chat toxicity or abusive language... AND making people feel that reports do something (like Overwatch does.)
Having SWF give an advantage to people is just an icing on the cake IMO. I don't think people would be as opposed to it if it weren't for the fact that being unsportsmanlike is so common.
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But toxicity isn't a SWF restricted thing. Solos can be toxic, killers can be toxic, I think it's the general match experience with them that makes it feel terrible, can't sneak up, your position constantly reported, gens done at the speed of sound while you're chasing one, light speed saves/heals and flashlight saves, can't have hidden traps, can't have hidden totems. As soon as one sees it it's gg. That's why most suggest these changes, toxicity can be linked (and make it worse) but it is a whole other topic in itself.
I just suggested black pipping because some people do like maintaining their rank and depipping just because they got a SWAT squad probably isn't great considering it's an increased difficulty match. I did mention a few points of compensation, that was just a suggestion.
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I dont like going against SWF either but the hate against them is getting ridiculous, i mean, i have only played a single SWF game in my entire history with this game and i think its enough to say it is not as terrible as some weepy killer mains say.
Not everyone you face is SWF, some people are just paranoid, a killer i went against brought an ebony mori because he thought we were SWF.
Och*do has played a fundamental part on ruining SWF reputation and now everyone thinks it is specifically made to gain a tremendous advantage over the killer and just be toxic.
Heck, one time i had a 3 man SWF as companions and they were toxic AF, even with me, even worse was the fact that when i checked the profile of one of them it said "Och*do is my god and if trash talk him you can ######### off"
The absolute state of this community
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I personally believe that's more of a perception issue. Given that we see that, on average, 4-man SWF only increases survival by 10% (arguably 20% more than solo average) and are only in 5% of games, the actual impact of these perceived benefits are much smaller than on paper.
Maybe in the tippy top ranks, SWF wreck havoc and/or allow for boosted lower ranks. However, we see complaints about 4-man SWF across the board, so it leads me to believe that much of what is believed is just self-perception. Plus, we don't know who is in a SWF in-game. I've loaded in and matched outfits with random strangers myself for the funsies.
You are right that there are multiple layers to this issue, but I think balance changes will only do so much. I strongly believe that the feeling and self-perception of being bullied that is driving much of the anger.
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I agree, the issue is partly that we don't actually 100% know who is in a SWF so most assume when people get a sweaty match it's (4 man) SWF but that data showed it's not that common but all "data" things are kind of "with a grain of salt" (or a ton if it's dbd). That's why indicators were mentioned above, people just want to know once and for all so we can put away this SWF is the source of all misery perception, be it true or false.
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The 5% prevalence is convincing to me. Many people complain as if it were practically every game. Even at high ranks, I doubt it reaches a problematic number.
It's unfortunate that many killers will just abuse that by dodging, and then SWF players will respond by lobby jumping to mask themselves.
I have proposed a compromise to show SWF, punish dodging and DCing, and provide a BP bonus to killers facing SWF, but who knows what BHVR has planned.
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Just to clarify, I do mean reveal at the end of the trial along with the bp bonus or whatever other compensation would be deemed necessary to prevent lobby dodges.
Also I'm not too keen on that data because it was around plague's release and a lot of people were on break around the time (due to state of the game at the time) that data was collected (myself included) it's not really a "normal" situation of dbd as opposed to if they chose a random week post reset vs. mid season etc.
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