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Mettle of Man, form God tier to trash tier
With the latest patch we saw mettle of man get nerfed to requiring protection hits in order to activate its ability. This of course is the craziest thing as any killer in red ranks can easily catch on if someone is constantly doing bad saves or body blocking to get the stacks up in order to use it. This leaves the perk in the killers hand to deal with, rather it would if any survivors would run it.
Since this perk was dominating games in its original form, devs reacted with a desire to have mercy on the killers, but destroyed the value in purchasing Ash as a character. Why would anyone by this character with money now? The only reason is because you like the character himself without any of his perks.
In its prior state, MoM required 3 basic hits in order to activate. While some killers could work around this somewhat with hatchets, chainsaws, grabs and 3 insta-down hooks, there was still a chance that the survivor didn't have MoM in the first place, and just the threat the perk was on a survivor was enough for to make billy's attempt chainsaws on every attack (even injured). And if you were an m1 killer, well you were in for a bad time. Any perk that poses such a huge threat that causes paranoia that it is present in a match when a player isn't even using it is a perk that needs to be addressed (looking at you noed). However with MoM, they did addressed it, but did it in the worst possible way.
Today, the perk is literally useless as the threat it poses is very tiny and for a few reasons. Now 3 protection hits are required for survivors to get the benefits of the perk. This does a few things, first it makes survivors play poorly by creating incentives for making bad saves, and purposely taking hits that put two survivors in a ######### position giving massive pressure to the killer. Much like no mither, MoM actually makes the game easier for the killer, not the survivor. The benefits would be worth it too as it can counter noed and other strong instadown abilities killers have, except for one problem.
The fact that it requires 3, count it, 3 protection hits. Why so bad? Because after two protection hits a smart killer can catch on to what the survivor is trying to get and simply deny the 3rd protection hit.
My suggestion in not fixing, but giving survivors a reason to try the perk out again (and purchase ash if they haven't already) is simply to lower the protection hits required from 3 to 2. The first protection hit the killer will think the survivor is just an idiot, but the second one the killer will probably say "######### he just got MoM didn't he" i recommend the devs revisiting ash's kit entirely, but I believe that lowering the required protection hits from 3 to 2 will give somebody who is on the fence a reason to pick him up.
Comments
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Nah son, it's balanced now. Could do to lose the aura side effect but overall you can build the perk up in a match and use it well lategame instead of getting a free health state for doing nothing.
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The difference between 2 protection hits and 3 is huge. 2 is so damn easy. We need to keep in mind how insanely powerful MoM's effect is...
Make protection hits actually function properly, that's what MoM needs. They are completely inconsistent.
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Purchasing a whole character for one perk is already a chance, especially knowing that strong perks get balanced all the time (BBQ, all exhaustion perks, D-strike, etc.)
BHVR owes no one anything for buying something just because it was outright overpowered. People knew it from Day 1, you could watch videos and streams of everyone saying its broken. You'd have to be delusional to believe that perk would be at the same strength forever.
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It needs a change to 3 or 4 Safe Unhooks doing Protection hits usually doesn't benefit your team one bit plus how inconsistent it is to get protection hits. You will be wasting so much time getting protection hits that it is worthless.
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I feel if they keep the 3 protection hits and then give the benefit of not being downed in the healthy state too ontop of potentionally losing the aura reading. It would be much stronger and still require effort to get.
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It's trash in solo survivor play. I mean, essentially it not only buys time for the killer, because if you're the only one fixing gens, you are forced to stay behind the survivor that's being chased, get picked up and take a hit then. Also, not every killer goes right back to their hook, so you can't take a hit there if they don't come back.
What they need to do is add other actions that would meet the condition, that being flashlight saves, healing a survivor from a dying state while killer is around... hell, not even the most obvious thing like blocking the killer from continuing a chase with another survivor counts... and that's literally the epitome of taking a protection hit.
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The question I have is would the protection hits be worth it if you got mettle of man. Plus there is counter play for killers, as they dont have to hit surviors going for protection hits. I agree that protection isnt consistent and should be addressed.
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One thing you need to put into consideration when evaluating a perk is the time it saves or wastes when you use it. For example, people like to use brutal strength because after kicking generators and pallets at a slightly faster speed, you have saved about 15 or 20 seconds by the end of the match. This is pretty good! Sloppy Butcher is great because you can save a TON of time as a killer making survivors heal for longer (an estimated 20sec-50sec per match). MOM is VERY powerful. A survivor can waste anywhere from 2 to 3 minutes extending the chase, and then you have to keep in mind that all four survivors can run it. DS has a similar time-wasting effect. This is why, even though it is very hard to activate, it is balanced.
TLDR; Killer perks are run when they can save 10-20 seconds because every second counts in a match but MOM can waste minutes of a killers time with no counterplay, hence its difficult activation effect.
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Never played ash but for me he isnt worth to be buy
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Lmfao, the irony of him mentioning that it's unfair to have a perk's usability to be decided by the killer when the very powers of the last 2 killers have their usability decided by survivors.
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Its dead and let it stay dead
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What's nice about it is because of the time you gotta spend taking extra hits for it and healing, you're wasting as much of your own time as the killers so you can't use it to waste time anymore. Instead it opens up endgame rescue plays and bodyblocking potential that you otherwise wouldn't have.
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I wish that there was a way to force anyone who says MoM is currently balanced to play nothing but survivor with MoM until they have achieved 10 MoM activations. After 2 weeks of trying to do this, you'd be back at the forums BEGGING for it to be changed. MoM is not balanced. It is trash. Protection hits are buggy as hell. Trying to get 3 protection hits in a match is so counter productive that you might as well run No Mither instead.
What they should do IMHO is to make MoM require 3 different events. 1 protection hit, 1 safe hook rescue, and 1 pallet stun on the killer. Achieving any one of these is not especially hard, but doing all 3 is something a survivor will have to go out of their way to accomplish. And that was most of the killers primary objection. That 3 basic hits were basically "free". No one could realistically argue that a survivor who does those 3 things in one match didn't "earn" it.
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This. In what world does it make sense to trade 3 extra hits via protection, which not only takes time to pursue the opportunity but also time spent healing, in exchange for one injured hit. When you think it through it makes absolutely no sense and is indeed garbage. If it at least protected you in the healthy state against instadowns too, it would serve a little more of a purpose.
Also let’s be real. The fact I have not seen one single killer complaint about MoM speaks volumes about how bad it is lol.
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I haven't had too much trouble getting it active by endgame honestly. I don't always get it and don't always get to use it when I DO get it, but that's not that bad. It's still decent and worth running if you play altruistically.
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You'll waste way more time trying to activate it then it is worth. Gotta make sure to be near a survivor in a chase first of all. Second of all then you have to get a protection hit either for someone being carried to a hook or take aggro in chase. This can be inconsistent. This means you will spend time running around trying to stay near survivors in a chase this is already wasting a lot of your time. Then you have to get a protection hit and heal up. That is only 1 hit then you have to rinse and repeat and hope that protection hit's don't bug out. This perk is a detriment to you and wastes more time then it is worth. And if all four survivors are running it then every single survivor will most likely be wasting their time trying to get protection hits.
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nobody runs MOM anymore its garbage now RIP
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This right here.
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I get what youre saying but i cant go all the way with you. Because a killer doesnt have to give a survivor a protection hit. In the same way how long ruin stays up is controlled by survivors, the killer can decide whether or not he hits the survivor. Also survivors typically will heal afterwards, so theres sone circular logic here. Still considering time is pretty valuable data and you have a good idea there.
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The perk shouldn't have existed in the first place.
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Not hitting them can benefit them too though. You're either letting them body block or you're dropping the survivor and losing a bit of momentum. Some perks have indirect bonuses
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Thats a good point, it would be stronger in swf situations where they make you hit them, but gotta love whipping someone who begs for punishment, plus maybe give you a reason to run mad grit? Just a funny thought.
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I feel robbed for buying Ash. His perks are now the worst...
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Anyone with any sense could have looked at Ash upon release and known his perk would get nerfed.
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There are much more fun perks to use than Mettle, and more reasons to buy Ash too. I like this version of the perk better because it encourages save unhooking and helping teammates.
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maybe you shouldn't buy a character just to abuse their overpowered perks
but this is probably a lesson you will not learn
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You're a Hypocrite, Mr. Wallhacking BBQ user
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good
it was a horribly designed perk and i'm glad it's dead
maybe it can be tweaked in the future but it needs to be niche for what it does
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LOL
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Agreed. As far as I've seen there are 2 protection hit scores, one that give 100 BP, and one that give 200. MoM and WGLF only give a stack if it's a 200 score event. My theory is that it's based on how far the chased survivor is from the killer when the protection hit occurs, but I have no way of proving/busting it.
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Their not the worst, they are just niche and only fit certain playstyles or against certain playstyles. Flip Flop is good if you get slugged and just left there, Buckle Up is also good against Sluggers, and MoM is good if you have Borrow Time so you can guarantee a safe hook rescue/protection hit.
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How is BBQ OP? you have the exact same thing in "wall hacks", it's called Dark Sense or Object of Obsession. Also, if you think they have BBQ, hide in a locker once someone gets picked up and wait 3 seconds when they are hooked.
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Just because it wasn't balanced doesn't mean the perk deserves to be useless :/. That's like the sentiment with Legion he wasn't op by no means but he received a pretty hard nerf. Or what if we apply this sentiment to any new killer that turns out to be OP somehow and so they nerf them and make him worse than F tier killers.
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I agree with @KillermainBTWm8
Have the perk require 3 safe unhooks to activate because 3 protection hits don't benefit your team most of the times. Even if you was able to trigger MoM, you probably done so much damage to your team trying to force 3 protection hits that the free health state won't even matter.
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Do you want a reason to buy Ash? It's Ash. It's a cool character from a famous franchise. Broken perks aren't the only reason to buy a character. Actually, it doesn't matter that much: you can just wait for them to show up on the Shrine of Secrets. Might take a little long, but you save your money.
And unlike what happens when a killer with a bad power is launched, a survivor with bad teachables can still be played like any other. Ash is far from being ruined like Freddy was on his nerf back in 2017.
Mettle of Man shouldn't have been added the way it was in first place.
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Stop buying DLC.
This isn’t the first time.
Nobody in this community ever learns. Instead they keep buying DLC for it to be changed and/or nerfed.
I don’t own Ashley, but I haven’t bought DLC myself since LF.
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I didn't even really care about his perks, I just really like horror films
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Two protection hits can be acquired too easily, so that's a no from me. But I understand that the current MoM often doesn't feel like a useful perk. So why not totally change that perk? Here's a suggestion I made in a another thread:
Make it a perk for a hooked survivor to protect themselves from yolo saves.
It has the same effect as BT. If the hooked person runs MoM and gets unhooked in the killer's terror radius, the killer's hit would only put them in the Deep Wound status instead of downing them.
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Do I understand you correctly: you complain that the activation of a power is in killers hand and that sucks?
Like that Plague and Ghostface need the mercy of the survivors to use the full scope of their powers?
I think, I can understand your frustration and the desire to own your perk/power.
MoM is still a strong Perk. It now require some effort from the survivors but simultaneously it promotes team play, what I love. Help out your team, stop being a selfish m1 simulator and interact with the other players (survivors and killer alike).
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@BunnyTheHutt I can confirm that you have to be right up the survivor’s behind in order to “count” as a protection hit. Which IMO seems pretty broken.
Funny enough this happened to me with a Billy. A friend was being camped and I went in there with BT, so I told him to take the hit, instead he panicked and ended up body blocking me and Billy used his chainsaw downed me but I got the stack.
I think there should be a fair protection hit radius considering 99% of the time the killer will switch to the person taking the hit, unless they are tunneling the survivor for a specific reason.
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Dont use the perk simple they wont buff it cuz its balance right now it requires skill we dont need another 2nd chance perk when theres alot of perks that you already have and right now theres 1 that its god tier and thats DS (Decisive Strike) since enduring can no longer counter it they didint nerf it or change it some of the 2nd chance perk should get a rework and not be a 2nd perk ive played as ghostface since i main him and theres alot of ppl using ds with adredaline dead hard and bt (borrow time) those build are deadly survivor should focus more on stealth and not rely on 2nd chance perks
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I would like to make Mettle of Man as complicated as possible. Why not sth like
After doing 6 alturistic actions, the next hit that would put you from the injured to the dying state is ignored.
The Killer will be forced into a 1.8 seconds long attack-cooldown.
The next time you heal back to full health, your Aura will be revealed to the Killer when you are farther than 12/14/16 metres from the Killer.
Mettle of Man will deactivate the next time you are put into the Dying State.
Increases your chances of being the Obsession.
The Killer can only be obsessed with one Survivor at a time.
The idea would be that you have to be alturistic in general. Also the killer gets a fixed number. Some of you noticed that 1.8 seconds cooldown is a stbfl at 8 stacks. So as a survivor you're still in danger even if you dodge a hit. I think it would also feel better as a killer and a solid cooldown is better here to prevent possible stacks with eg stbfl.
And another fun fact here is: If you had 4 survivors running mettle of man. Could you imagine? Either one or two could trigger it, because they also have to chase and do gens zu survive. Or they all try anything to get 6 stacks, all of them and they will just die for each other. Soo it wouldnt be the smart play.
Maybe i should make an own discussion o:
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- No more Aura
- Protection hits fixed
That's all it needs.
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Agreed, new MoM is healthier for the game than old MoM without question. But we should be striving for making a perk like MoM which was behind the only solo survivor bhvr makes you pay for do be worth more than just a cosmetic upgrade (which for some is worth it, totally cool with that) a perk that has some viability.
I get not all perks can or should be meta, but not once have we a perk go from god tier to trash tier in 5 weeks that you have to buy (unless you pick it up on shrine i guess). It took them close to 2 years to figure out decisive and refuse to touch noed. This action by behavior is radically inconsistent to me. And you cant bring up autodidact as it was only good in the ptb.
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Kinda like this idea
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Close, what im saying is that a perk that is as strong as mettle of man is fine being strong if the player is not in control of the power. My point is that there should be a better activation than 3 protection hits as this requires a survivor to play stupidly to activate the perk and the killer could deny them the oportunity if they catch on to the survivors goal.
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Good riddance. Survivors didn't need another crutch perk and the majority of you were using it to show off. Much like old DS. That's why it got changed.
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I still don't think even the old version was good enough to be run, the current iteration however is dumpster tier. Getting rewarded for protecting other survivors is a cool mechanic though
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By that logic, Spirit Fury needs gutted because Hillbilly thinks he's bad to the bone that a pallet vanishes before his eyes.
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Not even the same. The killer uses spirit fury as it's intended. Not as a joke on the survivor. Take Legion for example, almost nobody was playing him correctly on purpose and the devs forced them. That would be a better example than Spiry Fury.
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