Pig needs love and attention.
@pemberley If it works once for ten plus pages for plague, let's see if we can double it for oink mains. ; )
She’s been pretty much all but forgotten, hardly used, the only maps she actually kind of stands a chance on are Saw and maybe Lery’s, she’s so unthreatening to survivors with even a modicum of experience, her add ons are weak and uninspired, and she’s racing Leatherface for the weakest killer of the bunch.
Nobody plays her, at least not regularly or enough for an aspiring Pig player to learn from with gusto. Most footage of her is from her launch days where she was different enough that trying to learn from those videos would be misleading. The rest are few and very far between and almost all (if not all) of them use her crouch/charge add ons.
Pig needs more than looking into. She needs love and she needs buffs. She has such a cool design and concept and it’s a shame she got thrown overboard for Tapp’s bodacious booty, Kate and her rockin' country boots, the AYAYA queen (spirit), and now Ghostface.
Give this Queen what she deserves! Power and presence!
Hey, if it worked once, right? Can we get some changes to pig that actually matter? The end game nerfs were harsh, and she's sitting in a worse position than before. I like the idea of 'playing a game' both as pig and as survivor, but I feel there's a better way to do this. Any killer players with some useful feedback the developers could use?
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Still gonna vouch for her EGC nerf to be changed. Make the EGC timer pause as long as someone is wearing a Reverse Bear Trap.
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At the moment I'm trying to formulate a list of changes I'd personally like to see to make Pig more threatening in this current meta. By threatening, I mean close to if not nurse/billy/spirit tier - that is the standard that has been set for the highest level of play with the current state of the game, sadly.
One of the changes I will be proposing involves returning the threat to the reverse bear traps during the EGC. I mean, I personally enjoy running around searching for my way out with the trap ticking down, but at the moment it is very 'game-able' (no pun intended). Key always spawns in the same box for each survivor, every time.
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Yeah, a few things actually :), 1. RBTS that are not active should have a 25% action penalty on survivors, so there is a reason to get rid of them, or to buy her more time if people just 99 gens, 2. Reduce the time it takes to get up so she can actually mind game pallets with crouch like ghostface. 3. I want RBTS to change to you hook a survivor instead so it feels like I have control over the rbts like she does in the movies. 4. Change her to roar after the ambush has started. 5. she should be able to see the auras of survivors who are removing an RBT. 6. RBT's should pause in heartbeat due to #5, and 7. make it to where you have to search a mininum of 1 jigsaw box before it comes off, its really ######### you use it to apply pressure and comes off on the 1st box.
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Hear hear! I would recommend Psychoscorpionz (I might have spelled that wrong), but he's a piggy main that streams.
LOL "Tapps bodacious body". I'm dying. Wow, even Ghostface is more loved curls up in the corner
Add-ons and the roar, for the love of god please. Better crouch speed and give the peek to her as well (or you know, fix the height you see at when she crouches - she's small but not that small). Pretty much agree with Victory on some more in-depth things.
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I don’t think she should see auras of people taking off traps because that would just encourage the pig tunnelers.
I think whatever changes she gets should encourage deviousness and a sense of “you’re in my game now outwit me or die,” and I think her tunneling should be completely neutered. It’s the opposite of fun as a survivor when you get hooked and trapped only to get unhooked and then you get followed. Pigs tend to be the nastiest at tunneling, after Leatherface.
Pig should have her crouch eye level higher, her terror radius should be reduced back to 24, she should be immune to detection perks when crouched, her crouch speed should be 115%, and her skill check add ons should instead reduce the size and randomly place them.
Edit: @BadMrFrosty I don’t think she’s as bad as Leatherface and Plague, but I think she could use a few buffs and changes. I think her add ons could be better.
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Yeah pig need love i agree but honestly almost all killers need some love tweak rework etc.But hey in next 3 months we got another killer and before we fix next one will be 4 more dlc.So you know how this go.In mayby 2022 rework for pig.
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People here have made far better suggestions than i could righ now but i thoroughly support this, there has to be something to compensate for her nerf due to the EGC at the very least.
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I think most of your suggestions seem fair, though I don't know if she needs all of those buffs. I only disagree with you 5th point, that wouldn't be fair in my opinion.
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These are all solid except for the aura one. I agree with Pemberly that it'll just encourage the Pig tunnelers which goes against Amanda in general
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1) I like it, though would this apply to Jigsaw Boxes as well?
2) Maybe that could work as a buff to Combat Straps, but I guess I wouldn't mind seeing that just naturally too much.
3) Sure, don't see why not.
4) Yes please.
5) No, that would be too much.
6) No thanks, since I wouldn't want #5.
7) I'm down for that. PERSONALLY, I think I would prefer RSN2 being base kit over this, but that wouldn't really work if #3 ended up being implemented.
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Here are two ideas I'm kicking around:
- When Pig places a trap on your head, it's activated immediately. This will promote people rushing around to get it off ASAP, not only after contributing to gen completion as much as they can before looking for a key.
- Whenever a generator is completed, the timer of all active traps on survivors is decreased by 20 seconds. The more generators they complete before taking the hat off, the less time they have to search boxes.
- These two changes give Pig some fairly solid stalling potential, and if survivors choose to ignore her traps entirely and complete gens anyway, they risk killing themselves/their teammates.
What about those as a start?
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Your first point: It makes sense from a character perspective. Amanda was known to rig her traps. Having an actual trigger is something that John would have done (and did to Amanda). I wouldn't mind.
Second point: Along the same lines as being more in character, but that might be too hard. Just thinking of how I have immediately gone searching with an activated trap and almost died because the map placement of the boxes or because Amanda was crouch camping that last box I need.
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On your second point, I feel like this situation will happen no matter what if the Pig player wants to get 'creative'. That said, it's not a particularly good strategy, nor will it win you games most of the time as the killer won't know which box you need unless they watch you the whole time your trap is activated. In that case, they were going to make the game extra fun for you no matter what you did. Though the point about large maps and RNG placement making things extra difficult is noted, this could be the one situation where a big map might swing slightly in a non-mobile killer's favor for once. That is, if they can get some momentum going to begin with.
What I'm trying to do is raise her lethality/threat so that more deaths can occur as a result of her main power, especially if survivors choose to just ignore it. No killer power should ever be rendered moot.
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Sorry, got side-tracked by another thread.
I was just thinking about how someone could argue from the other side. Maybe a time tweak, not necessarily 20s, would be cool. If they also considered fixing her non-mobility issue, than this might not be necessary. I get what you're going for. I'd love to see more heads pop (or compensation for the lack of them). It would be cool if she could 'sabotage' like a gen or something. Or sabotage the trap so that it goes off in endgame.
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To help her during ambush/short loops, how would you feel about an abduction? IE, if she successfully lands a 'grab-like attack' out of her dash, she stabs the survivor in the neck with a syringe that has 2 effects:
- Incapacitates the survivor, allowing them to be carried to the hook.
- Has a 'wake up' mini-game that must be played before the survivor can begin wiggling. If they succeed the game, then their wiggle meter is filled by a certain amount, giving them a chance to break free. If they fail the mini-game, they must start wiggling without a bonus to the attempt.
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This is genius.
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My issue with Pig is because she lost her pressure power. Endgame fault? Course, but her playstile is not the same and I think this is a problem. If they can't revert this particularity then give her more speed in her crouch or things like that
Or... her traps should be active no matter if generators are being worked or not
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As for Amanda's mobility problem, one thing I would like to see are little trap doors that spawn on the levels exclusive to her, typically in or near structures. These would let her pop up at various areas of the map and ambush survivors with the 'syringe' change to her dash I mentioned a few posts up.
I think it could be both thematic, cool, and fun for everyone. It would also bring some cheeky jump scares back into the game from a new killer.
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I think we need to be careful with not making her power too stuffed. She already has two distinct powers straight-up (crouch+ambush and RBTs), after all.
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Or that could just be her new ambush ability. Instead of the hidden blade in that action it's a syringe. Her normal attack would still be the blade.
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That was the idea, yep. So essentially, the changes I would suggest are the above mentioned alterations to her reverse bear traps, the dash attack become a dash grab, and trap doors on the maps for mobility. I think that would preserve her character while adding something she sorely needs to compete.
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I actually did a "full rework" on a notepad a while back, but a lot of these ideas seem to be good.
Pig is supposed to be a "Stall" killer, meaning she slows the game down while she gets the hooks. The problem is the RBTs aren't enough of a threat to slow the game down. Also adding that their is such a small quantity of RBTs, you have a semi useless ability.
My suggested changes without full reworking her:
Ambush has the Syringe effect, however it only applies an RBT upon successful hit.
Ambush Roar happens slightly later.
No limit to the number of RBTs.
Increase RBT timer to 3 minutes by default.
Only spawn 3 Jigsaw Boxes.
Auras of Jigsaw Boxes are never revealed to survivors except through the use of a map.
While in a chase, RBT timer pauses.
Alter all Add-Ons to be more effective for RBTs.
Amanda's Letter: removes the syringe, replacing it with her "usual" hidden blade attack.
Tampered Timer: While in a Chase, fast actions, dropping pallets, and getting hit cause the timer to lower by 5 seconds. (This is instead of reduced timer) (Yes, this seems busted if you have an RBT and are getting chased, but the point is it still gives some semblance of a reward to the Pig for getting her RBT on you IF she takes this Add-On)
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As one of (likely) few pig mains
I don't think she really needs a movement ability but the previously mentioned suggestions seem interesting, I think she could use more mind game like tricks or pressure with stalling, as far as my games go.. survivors don't care much if one has an RBT on their head and just does gens anyway but I also get few games where just one RBT stops them in their tracks
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Making one of her talents a Tunnel talent doesn't help. "Camp the hook to use this talent!"
The worst is that people can detect you when you're in stealth with a perk. It basically makes her useless if people take the perk that nearly everyone takes.
"Here is a stealth killer, people can detect you with a perk. Good luck."
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Give some piggy piggy love! 🐷😍🐷 Oink Oink
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she could really use a buff, i mean if they nerfed her cuz of the endgame collapse buff her another way, also ffs make the traps somewhat of a threat i could honestly give 2 shits if it activates or not
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So I've been trying to design the most absurd add-on possible for Pig that really screws around with how the game is played (lots of upsides and arguably the motherlode of downsides) and tries to make Reverse Bear Trap kills the name of the game (without effectively guaranteeing them). Here's what I came up with so far:
Amanda's Game
Ultra Rare Jigsaw's Baptism Add-On
This isn't the Entity's game anymore. This is how games were meant to be played.
-Survivors begin the trial wearing an inactive Reverse Bear Trap.
-Survivors wearing Reverse Bear Traps suffer an action speed penalty of 50%. This does not apply to searching Jigsaw Boxes.
-Increase available Jigsaw Boxes by 3.
-Gain a Reverse Bear Trap when a Survivor removes an active Reverse Bear Trap. (This does not apply to the inactive Reverse Bear Traps at the beginning.)
-Reverse Bear Traps automatically activate when put onto a Survivor as long as the Exit Gates are not powered. (This does not apply to the inactive Reverse Bear Traps at the beginning.)
-When a Survivor removes an active Reverse Bear Trap or a Reverse Bear Trap kills a Survivor, the Generator with the highest progression on it automatically becomes fully repaired. (If multiple Generators are tied, ex. all current Generators are at 0%, one is chosen randomly.)
Thoughts?
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@TAG Neat, I actually really like that add on. Feels closer to the movies and lets you 'play a game' as it were. I might be in the minority, but I believe ultra rares should not only be powerful, but offer a fairly interesting change to the killer's power/style of play. BVHR has failed spectacularly at this when it comes to their last few killers.
So, a brief write up for base Pig would look something like this:
- A stealth killer, capable of abducting survivors out of hiding and using her power, Jigsaw's Baptism, as a lethal stalling mechanism. She can also traverse the map using trap doors, assisting her in getting the drop on unaware survivors.
Changes to the Pig:
- Traps are now activated when placed on a survivor.
- Generators that are completed reduce the time of all active traps by X amount (variable).
- Dash attack reworked: The Pig will now abduct survivors if a successful grab is landed during her crouch, rendering them unconscious with a syringe and forcing a 'wake up' mini-game before wiggling can be attempted. If successful, the survivor has their wiggle meter filled by X amount (variable) and may begin wiggling. If the mini-game is failed, the survivor wakes up, but must wiggle as normal without the bonus.
- Trap door entrances are placed at random locations on the map, visible to only the Pig. When interacted with, they allow her to traverse the map quickly, and after a brief delay, she will appear in a new location.
Those are just for her base power. I know it seems loaded, but without massive changes to how the game functions, a lot of these changes are needed to see her reach any level of competitiveness. I was also kicking around an idea for one of her ultra rare add ons, but one I really liked the idea of was this one:
- Rigged Hatches - The Pig's trap doors now open up when stepped on by survivors, causing them to slip and hang on to the edges of the floor, incapacitated. Until a teammate assists them or they complete a recovery mini-game, they risk falling. Survivors that succeed the mini-game pull themselves out of the hole and act as normal, retaining whatever health state they were in. Survivors that fail the mini-game fall into the basement and are put into the dying state.
There would be more coming than this, obviously, and hopefully it'd end up being a tad more refined and within the format we'd recognize in terms of add-on/power/perk write ups.
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Here Pig, I'll let you borrow my Katana and we can check out the generator progress together <3
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Can we just remember as always, that pig traps are NOT RNG AND HAVE ONE KEY PER BOX FOR A TRAP WHEN IT IS PLACED ON A SURVIVOR. Devs have said this multiple times.
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If by "one key per box," you mean that each box will only work for one trap, that is incorrect. It has been stated/proven that the same box can contain keys for more than one Trap.
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Add-ons could increase difficulty of the wake-up action or lengthen the time it takes to wake-up (change effectiveness of the syringe).
Tag's idea with starting with a trap, but as a base. An ultra could be one person starting with the trap activated (similar to Freddy having the obsession in the dream-world).
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i see people here go on about after a gen gets completed your timer goes faster uh do you realise if you have the last box and you have a decent big map 2 min and 30 sec is just enough to get the trap off (lets not forget traps arent for killing but to stall time and one person less on gens unless your someone who tunnels traps ) and maybe all of you should learn to play pig cause shes fine where she is use your ambush and thats all i have to say also check out psychoscorpionz on twitch he mains pig
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I agree that timers going down for completing gens is not the right way to go about it, but I do not agree that Pig is fine where she is. Her traps are inconsistent and her dash is only good in certain loops. A player being good with a character generally considered not good does not necessarily mean that character is suddenly good. No one argued that Bowser is good in Melee because of Gimpyfish.
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Just because a certain streamer can do well with a killer, doesn't mean they're viable, especially when they likely have thousands of hours in the game. At a certain point, their fundamental knowledge is just greater than the average survivor (this gap in knowledge between the players allows the killer to outplay survivors of lower skill levels with a non-viable killer). You'll notice however, that if they go against good solos or god forbid, SWF, they will not win with their killer of choice unless the survivors throw massively. That's not even including the super optimal builds some are running at the moment (MoM, adrenaline, ds, and exhaustion of choice).
People who believe that 'all killers are viable and it only depends on your personal skill' are either in denial, or don't play this game consistently at a high level. No, all killers are not created equal, and no, individual skill does not eclipse the kit (and limitations thereof) you are given when facing survivors of an equal or higher skill level. Restrictions are built into one side, while the other is free to use and abuse the core mechanics free from any real downside. There's a reason why only nurse is used in any real competitive setting where actual money is on the line (PC, anyway).
Pig is not fine, and neither are the other M1 killers. The more people spread this ridiculous 'git gud' idea, the more this game will suffer in the long term. This is a pvp game where both sides are not equal in terms of how much they can both grow in their ability. One side, regardless of their skill, will hit a certain cap on their overall potential that is determined by the killer they choose. The other side has vast resources, powerful perks, and the map knowledge that all undoes most every non-nurse killer in the game by themselves.
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While I like the ideas of a different dash mechanic of abducting survivors the devs won’t implement that unless they did a full rework for pig like they are for Freddy. Since pig isn’t considered weak like Freddy chances are they won’t rework her for along time. But I do agree that they need to make changes to her add ons and compensate pig with a buff to her tr or crouch speed because of the egc nerf.
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While I disagree with the endgame nerfs to her, she already needed a buff prior to that. Mainly, I feel that they need to weight her RNG on traps/boxes, or they need to make her stealth gameplay better. I mean, Myers does well, and they just buffed Ghostface.
Pig has always been terribly weak on the stealth front against decent survivors, even on her best map(s).
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I couldn't let this thread die, especially since Amanda is soon to get some spicy new cosmetics for our Pig enthusiasts. Surely there are some other ideas kicking around the community? I'll edit this post with a few more later.
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Just throwing some suggestions for helping the Pig into the discussion.
Rule Set No. 2 should be implemented as part of Pigs base kit and replaced with:
Heart Monitor Trigger - Ultra Rare
Reverse Bear Traps become active with no timer after a survivor with one attached is unhooked. Once a survivor with an Active RBT is killed or sacrificed, all other active RBT's Trigger.
-Tremendously increases the time it takes a survivor to search Jigsaw Boxes.
-Considerably increases skill check difficulty when a survivor searches a Jigsaw Box.
"His heart stops, you die!" - Amanda Young
Amanda's Letter should be changed to either reduce the time on the only RBT it gives her to 60 seconds, or not decrease the amount of jigsaw boxes in the trial grounds. It could also use a 24m aura reading as opposed to the 12m range it currently has, increase her ambush speed and distance, or just remove the roar until she is already moving.
The point of Ultra Rare add-on's is that they give the killer a massive advantage or change the way the killer uses their power. Currently her 2 UR add-on's are painfully under-powered or mostly useless.
Other than those changes to the UR add-on's, Jigsaw boxes should only feature skill check windows without the Great skill check zones. The boxes already only take 12 seconds to search (17.2 with Crate of gears + bag of gears combo), and when a survivor nails all the great skillchecks they can reduce their search to only 7 seconds. This doesn't really put pressure on survivors. Likewise her add-on's that increase skillcheck chances should also reduce the skillcheck success zones, because these add-on's are useless otherwise and often help survivors search faster by providing more great skillcheck chances. If the Boxes had no "Great" zones this change to her skillcheck chance add-on's would be more viable at adding pressure and at least moderately increasing the skillcheck difficulty.
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As you know devs made this killer to stall the game, except one the things the pig can't stop is gen rushing. once u get to ranks 1-6 players will start to plow through gens even if a survivor has a trap on, which basically nullifies her ability because there not enough time to play traps on survivors heads fast enough. The idea of increasing the time after each gen pop is supposed to he help solve that and it doesn't need to be 20 secs just enough that deters people form doing gens quickly it like 10 to 15 seconds.
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Always thought it would be cool if you could use red or purple keys to get the trap off instantly, but would be punished if another trap is on you in the same game, like the timer being cute in half
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Just allow Amanda once per game put the key into another survival which is on hook. Same as Jigsaw put the key from her RBT into her drug dealer.
The person with this 'special RBT' unhook with scalpel and it is up to him
'Live or Die. Make Your Choice'...
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It sounds like you are saying that the Pig should have a one-per-game ability to guarantee that someone dies.
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I don't like this idea for a number of reasons:
1) I think items/perks being able to hard counter a Killer's power (toolboxes on bear traps, flashlights on Wraith, Nurse, and Hag traps, and Adrenaline on Freddy) is bad design IMO. Just being able to immediately say "no" to the Pig's game stalling is problematic when the Pig's game stalling is already not consistent to hegin with.
2) Given that the timer doesn't start until someone pops a gen, that could still give them enough time to get their punishment trap off if people play around it, and that's assuming they actually get caught again in a reasonable time. Someone could get the trap off with a Key late-game, have the last gen pop, and then they have gotten away with it with no punishment.
3) Survivors with keys aren't even incentivized to use the key immediately. They can just do the boxes at their own pace and then use the key as a failsafe if somehow they screwed it up. Or worse, it might just allow them to safely work on a gen knowing that they can take the trap off whenever they want, which means that the game doesn't slow down.
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