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My NOED Rework---An Earned Power Play
If you get 8/7/6 hooks before the last Generator is completed a broken totem will be rebuilt into a Hex totem granting you a 4% speed boost and gives Survivors the Exposed status effect until the totem is broken. Once the totem is destroyed the Collapse begins. If no totems have been broken during the trial a random dull totem will be selected.
No One Escapes Death is a problem for Solo Survivors, like myself. The main problem we/they have is that no one knows if anyone has been breaking totems, they can break 2 but can't find the others and pray that someone else did them. My idea turns this problem into a counter, if 1 Survivors breaks maybe 2 totems then at the end of the match one of those totems comes back in the form of NOED and that Survivor knows where those totems were and will instantly go back to see which one it was. If all the totems were destroyed then, again all the Survivors know the locations of the totems so they can go back and search each one. Now if the Survivors were lazy then they run into the same problem they have now and not know where NOED is and that's their fault for lazy.
Now on the Killers' side a lot of players don't like the perk because it's not earned, it rewards bad play, you lost the game but you got a huge reward and to some that feels cheap. Others don't like that it's very powerful or too common so they steer away from it. This change makes sure that you have to earn that power, you need to be at least decent in the match in order to get that Exposed status. ######### Killers who can't win without this perk will no longer be winning because they need to git gud, they need to show the Entity that they are worthy of that ultimate power.
Now I also added in that the Collapse starts when the totem is destroyed as a bonus. The Collapse is meant to push out players who won't leave and this perk is about no one escaping so I thought it would up the intensity of the last moments for the trial. Sure your totem was destroyed but that doesn't mean you got completely dominated, the Collapse starts and they need to leave. I don't think it's overpowered because a lot of people open the Gates when they see NOED is active anyway because it's really dangerous to stick around. I was debating to include that 30 seconds was taken off the timer as well but thought it might be too much.
Also please note that I have nothing against NOED, I love the perk and salty Survivors who complain nonstop about it disgust me. But I am not naive and I do know that Solo Survivors have a difficult time with getting all the totems because they have no information like SWF do. I also did this because I like doing it, it's really fun :)
Comments
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@HatCreature I won't downvote but their are many perks that a survivor can run to destroy totems. 4 x 4 is 16 perks vs 4 perks on a killer. NOED has already been hit multiple times. It doesn't need to get another nerf.
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the idea of having to hook survivors multiple times is a very good idea, it proves that you did your best trying to hook survivors but the generators got repaired, however having to hook survivors 6 times can be a bit tough and the fact that even with your hard work of hooking survivors i feel like this perk doesnt need to be a hex perk
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If your case for changing NOED rests entirely on a survivor-sympathy card, why post it in the killer sub-forum where it won't be welcome?
The issue killers have with unearned matched results stems from almost every killer having an awfully low skill-ceiling, that limits how much use they can get out of any particular killer with practice and that killers have very little control over matches but must play a reactive role. This does not translate into any perk with an 'unearned reward' for killers being a problem, especially if the overall game design itself remains one of survivors doing and killers responding.
NOED bucks this because it has to, under the current design of the game and the meta which survivors have developed and stuck to for 3 years now. Your suggestion removes NOED as a secondary-objective that is optional and lenghtens matches(something frequently requested even now but by people who don't acknowledge it as an already implemented feature), as something that survivors are supposed to have as a risk for not doing the optional objectives. It also removes a 'rubber-band' feature-option for killers(I mean a 'rubber-band' as a term to describe the opposite of snow-balling, something which gives the losing-side a chance of a comeback). That's all very well, but invites broader discussion about the similar feature-options for survivors which have become far more numerous and dominate the game.
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Noed is a punishment for survivors not doing totems so I don't see much reason to give the killer conditions. I can't call it a killer reward because they have no say in whether it activates or not. I play strictly solo and have never really had an issue with it, worst case is you do them and get bp or you do them and it stops Noed.
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Dull totems would be useless then, a nerf for NOED might be considered once issues like the genrush are fixed but not in the current state of the game.
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And lose yet another counter to gen rushing? No thanks....
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Depending on the quality of the survivors and the current state of the game. You could be trying really hard and not get 4 hooks, let alone 6 hooks. 6 hooks either two survivors dead or 3 survivors two hooked. either scenario usually mean the game is in the endgame phase. If you have a team of extra sweaty survivors then you may not even get that playing your best. It isn't as if gens can't be done in 80s by a solo survivor. If you've ever had a situation where 2-3 gens pop during a single chase then you know how important it is to have something making survivors slow themselves down.
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@HatCreature feel free to give it a read. This is not the first time this type of convo has come up.
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NOED is our counter to Adrenaline and gen rushing. Remove Adrenaline and fix Gen rushing and we can remove NOED.
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Survivors ALWAYS want the game to go in their favor newsflash there is a way to counter NOED its called small game and second you should be doing totems for points anyway stop complaining and get good
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Noed should be removed. I know I know but before the "Survivior main spotted" comments come in, I'm a filthy Nurse main. So killers as well as Surviviors hate me
Noed, simply put, does not reward the killer for good gameplay or punish the Survivior for bad gameplay. It rewards killers for bad gameplay and punishes Surviviors for good gameplay. Let's think about the trigger conditions and the dichotomy that is established.
How many totems need to be cleansed for NOED to not trigger? All 5. That means Surviviors can do 4/5 totems and Noed will still trigger. So there's a lot of effort that needs to be put into countering Noed. Let's juxtapose this with what the killer needs to do in order to trigger Noed. Which is...let the Surviviors complete the gens. This is btw, something you are NOT supposed to do. You are not supposed to let Surviviors complete their win condition in order to escape as a team. Noed allows you to let them complete their objective and rewards you for failing, which to me is gross.
Survivors have to be victims of toxic behavior to earn decisive strike and they have to work for Mettle of Man. They have to have a friend who is a victim of toxic behavior for borrowed time. Killers that ride everything on Noed are not smart killers trying to punish the genrushing toxic squadettes clicking their flashlights at poor bubba's and Wraiths who have to deal with windows. They're plain and simply put, bad at the game. And I specifically recall killer mains as a whole saying that BHVR shouldn't balance this game around people who are bad at the game.
Oh right. I forgot. Ur only bad if ur a Survivior main. If you consistently can't even get a kill with killers it's just bc Surviviors are OP, right?
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That's not a fair comparison. Adrenalines trigger is contingent on survivors playing well. Ergo it is an earned perk (Albeit frustrating to deal with). Noeds trigger is contingent on the killer failing and not playing well.
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I love this idea but I think it needs to be reworked. Have NOED be a non-hex perk and the new condition could be for every 2 survivors that are hooked during the entire match, once all generators are powered, the killer receives an "exposed stack" (killers can get up to 4 hits with exposed attached to there m1) and 1.25 (or 1 I'm not sure) % movement speed buff up to 2/3/4 stacks (can only receive 2 hook stacks per survivor so no farming one survivor for 3 stacks).
My reasoning being that you can still get 4 exposed hits and by all means, kill the entire team. But killing the entire team probably won't happen because with current NOED it hardly happens now. The second survivors see that you have NOED they will turn tale. No more countering by cleansing totems and if the killer did really well, he can get up to 4 hits and 5% movement increase! No one can escape death. And the killer has to be down one perk the entire game so it is still strong as normal but now it doesn't reward bad killers and they will at least earn the kill. It also punishes killers who camp because less opportunities to get stacks for noed. I feel like this is better for both parties because it adds a skill element to the game for survivors as well. They have to count the hooks the killer has and can maybeeeee tank exposed hits, but the killer can always camp at the end for the kills. New NOED may have to make mettle of man not trigger but it may also force plays to take more protection hits so they can get mettle of man, I'm not sure what should be done about the "borrowed time" effect survivors can get. The reason I think it should maybe not trigger is because the new NOED I have proposed can only trigger an exposed effect 4 times max. Maybe New NOED could propose a New keyword called like "No Escape" or something. New NOED could be good for both sides and less benifitial to bad killers.
I don't know it's just an idea, I don't like the design around current NOED so maybe this is a better idea? Can't be countered by cleansing but it takes effort to get and the killer can still get stacks after all gens are powered. It will reward aggressive gameplay and it isn't an auto include perk because of its nature. May reward tunneling for stacks tho which could be bad but I'm just tossing ideas out.
Post edited by RaeKallaway on0 -
you say this with such confidence. as if this game is actually balanced around killers reaching their win condition.
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Noed is in the same boat as Ruin where it's an absolute crutch for almost every killer.
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End game perks exist for a reason. The end game. Survivors reaching end game isn't always the result of "bad play" from the killer. You said you're a Nurse main which is fine, but Nurse breaks the game and a good Nurse doesn't have to worry about any of the stuff every other killer has to deal with. Mostly, loops. If I'm using an M1 killer and I'm not running Ruin or it gets destroyed 15 seconds into the game, then unless I got amazingly lucky map RNG, I'm #########. I might be able to stop the survivors from knocking out all five gens, but in the red ranks where I am now, they're going to gen rush me into oblivion. It's not "bad play" for a killer to be in this situation. It's called the meta of the game. And thats ignoring end game builds.
Also, it's not toxic to have DS triggered on you. If I hook someone and they quickly Deliverance off the hook, is it really toxic for the killer to go back and down them? If a gate is opened and I have a survivor hooked near, is it toxic for me to go after the injured survivor if they're unhooked? Same with BT. Yeah, the main use for that perk was to combat campers, but it gets triggered many times even if you aren't camping.
Both sides have end game perks. You aren't "bad" for using them lol
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Except as I said already, the trigger for NOED isn't contingent on the killer playing well at all. It's based solely on the Surviviors. Yet an attempt to remove Noed from the equation can still be for naught. As I said already, survivors have to cleanse all 5 totems to prevent Noed, which means they can cleanse 4/5 totems and still have to deal with Noed. Meanwhile the killer doesn't have to do anything to get Noed. Ergo it isn't an "earned" perk. It's a given perk. Now gimme one sec to address someone else.
The term "genrush" has become so arbitrary at this point. If ur chasing one Survivior, what's the other 3 supposed to do? Sit around with their thumb up their ass until you hook that one? Doing the gens is the Surviviors main objective. You wouldn't call a killer who hooks 3 Surviviors in the first minute a "hookrusher" would you? Bc apparently to you, survivors doing their main objective quickly is arrogant and negligent, but a killer doing their main objective quickly is...just playing well? I love the double standard.
If Surviviors do 2 gens while the killer is chasing one Survivior they're called "genrushers". If a killer hooks 3 Surviviors while the last one is on a gen, why is that guy not called a "hookrusher"?
Back to you, your point about endgame perks is true. They exist and should be allowed to be used. However, Noed is the only endgame perk that you don't have to do anything and still get. You're rewarded for letting them do the gens. Not like blood Warden, where ur rewarded for hooking someone when the gates are open, which is fine bc then the trigger is contingent on YOUR actions, it's an earned perk.
Like I also said previously, Surviviors can cleanse 4/5 totems and still get hit with Noed. The killer can AFK in the corner and Surviviors will still get hit with Noed. That instantly means that the perk punishes Surviviors for completing their primary objective and rewards killers for failing theirs. Ergo, yes it is the definition of a "crutch" perk. It pads bad gameplay to help bad players 4k in circumstances where they didn't deserve it.
And to your point about DS makes no sense. If you down someone who deliveranced off the hook 30 seconds ago, then yeah you were being toxic. That's called "tunnelling" and it's a gameplay style that DS is designed to punish you for. Ergo yeah you gotta be pretty toxic for DS to trigger. If you are gonna call downing a Survivior Within 60 seconds of them getting unhooked not tunnelling then I've got no words. The only times you get hit with D strike is when you deserve it.
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A crutch that relies on a dice-roll that is less than 50% favourable, is not a crutch.
NOED is made 50/50 by virtue of there being two exit gates; on most maps they can never spawn in a position where they can both be guarded at the same time, even by Huntress or Billy. It is pushed below 50% by being a Hex perk that can be defeated before it activates and the possibility of the hatch.
NOED's de facto function is as an insurance perk; where survivors who are not that good but managed to focus down gens can have their plan back-fire. A survivor will only lose to NOED because they made a major screw-up.
Ruin is more complicated in that there is a less definitive measure of whether it has served it's purpose by the time it is cleansed. We don't know how quickly gens are done on average from the start of a match even if we know how long each gen takes, nor even a comparison of how it changes when Ruin is in use. It is however still countered by survivors that know what they're doing or are prepared to use an exploit the devs admit is unintended but they have no plans to ever change.
To editorialise; survivors have such an easy time in this game that in order to have fun, they take greater risks, always increasing. These perks mainly serve a purpose in boosting those risks so survivors are more likely to make errors. They are some of the only tools killers have for this; killers lack control over the matches in practically every other way.
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You play nurse? Thats gross, your killer ignores 90% of the games mechanics and dynamics.... could it even be considered a real killer?
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we really do not need a NOED nerf, thanks.
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I still can't bring myself to agree with you because credence to Noed can be given, but survivors can still get hit by it. Like I said previously, Surviviors can cleanse 4 out of the 5 dull totems on the map and still get hit with Noed. To me, that isn't fair. Especially when you consider that the counter conditions make NOED the safest hex perk in the entire game to use.
The counter conditions for NOED are so stringent, but what are the trigger conditions? What does the killer have to do to EARN Noed? Does the killer have to hook survivors? Do they have to get so many hits? Do they need to defend gens? In fact, they have to lose in order for NOED to go off. This was the exact issue people had with old decisive strike, was that the counterplay was finnicky and required too much effort, and it rewarded the other side for playing bad. Why is Noed different? Bc you can cleanse totems to prevent it? You could juggle/slug to prevent old D strike. I don't see why killers don't have the same issue with Noed that they did with old D strike.
Could it possibly be bc it benefits them? Pffffft. Nahhhhhhhh. Hypocrisy is a "Surviviors only" thing
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ill make it quick:
NOED serves as a punishment for Survivors who screwed up their secondary objective.
it can be destroyed without even activating, which is enough of a downside for this mediocre perk. it is NOT the equivalent to old DS, since it HAS quite a lot of counterplay, which has not been the case with old DS.
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Yes I know we're terrible people
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Noed also serves as a reward for killers who screwed up their primary AND secondary objective.
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NOED serves as a gamble the killer does in which he eigther gets a powerup when he is about to lose or has to play the entire game with only 3 perk slots.
and no matter what you say, it primarily serves as a punishment for survivors who screwed up their secondary objective. AFTER they screwed up, the killer gets his second chance.
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If we accept the argument that 'NOED rewards the killer for screwing-up' then what we are accepting is the notion that a killer may not have a feature that enables rubber-banding.
This automatically invites comparison with survivors having many such options in kind. This leads us to concluding after much pointless debate that 'none should have benefits which they have not adequately earned'.
This means that in principle, all rubber-band features should be removed from the game and only snow-balling features remain. This would make the overall game balance considerably more frustrating, with people more likely to DC because they know they aren't likely to win: who ever is doing well a minute into a match might have an insurmountable lead.
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...
Post edited by Junkrat on2 -
Hardly a gamble considering it is the safest hex perk in the game, it requires literally 5 times the effort to cleanse as a normal hex perk and there's no way to know if it's in effect ahead of time
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@ArecBalrin That is a very valid point, I never knew about the term rubber-banding until today and it really shines a light on that aspect of the game. It's not just snowballing and I knew that rubber-banding was a thing but didn't know there was a term for it so now I can really see what it all is. Also, I didn't realize I put this in the Killer subforum until I was finished lol I usually post Killer related topics so out of habit I came here and realized I ######### up and suddenly looked like an ######### by accident. If there is an actual way to move this to General Discussions I completely would 100% because I know this is the wrong place for it.
@ihitscenekids23 I'm not complaining, I said at the bottom of my very long post that I love the perk, have no actual problem with it, and that I love making posts about reworks, i.e not complaining. I also don't even want the perk to change I was just coming up with an idea and that idea is not well received for very good reasons :) this causes way too many problems for us.
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I do play Survivior and killer, even if I play killer more than Survivior. Dull totems are in obvious spots this is more often than not true. But what you are saying doesn't refute what I've said. It doesn't change that 4/5 dull totems can get cleansed and Noed will still trigger. It doesn't change that NOED triggering is not contingent on the killer doing anything to earn the perk and is solely meant to punish Surviviors for ignoring a secondary condition that zero emphasis is put on aside from this toxic crutch perk. It changes none of that, and If you can't see that then there's no convincing you that this perk is nothing more than a pad for bad killers to get kills they don't deserve.
Killers have this issue. They'll never EVER admit when something is bullshit in their favor. Killers complained and moaned when Noed was reworked into a hex perk bc it was no longer a promise at that point. When Legion had the filthy and nasty blade bugs that were getting exploited they came at BHVR with the "######### why are you banning us for an issue you could try fixing instead of doling out punishment" thought process and then as Soon as they saw wake up was bugged and saw survivors with it they went "THESE PEOPLE DESERVE PERMABANS GATHER THE PITCHFORKS WE MUST RE ENACT THE SALEM WITCH TRIALS".
Hypocrisy, double standards, and baseless complaints have always plagued the killer community, yet they never admit it. I find it funny
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@PickCollins Adrenaline is just as good for survivors NOT playing well as it is with NOED. Oh you got a 3k as killer while downing the other survivor and closed the hatch, and didn't have deerstalker? Woohoo Adrenaline just kicked in and they get to the door before you know which one they're at. Screw your 4k(This has actually happened to me). NOED is a counter to Adrenaline because both are end-game perks. Adrenaline rewards survivors for doing what they're already supposed to do while also ignoring secondary objectives like healing each other or looking for totems, but not every one of those players deserved that Adrenaline proc. In addition, as you said, it's a perk that punishes players for ignoring other objectives. NOED can be removed from the game. Can you say the same about Adrenaline?
I personally think that all totems need to work like NOED, and have suggested as such. You should have to remove all totems to remove a killer's perk. It's 16 perks vs 4.
Post edited by Atrushan88 on0 -
I can say that if you decide to close the hatch when there's a downed Survivior on the map, then you made a stupid move and got punished for it if they adrenaline back up.
I can also say that there are plenty maps save for the game and Lerys where the gates can spawn extremely close together.
I can also say that 9 times out of 10, survivors did their objectives and earned the perk. I can safely say 10 times out of 10, the killer did nothing to earn Noed. Adrenaline is a perk that Surviviors earn for winning and surviving. Noed is a perk killers get for not killing and losing.
And your personal idea #1 would not work and #2 would be OP.
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@PickCollins Why would it be OP? Because the killer would have 4 perks at his disposal most of the game because survivors ignore totems? How often do you see Devour Hope proc now? Almost never. Huntress Lullaby? Once you know it's in play it's gone asap. This would slow the game down and require survivors to actually work to disable a killer's perks.
Also what should I have done? I didn't have deerstalker, and I teleported as hag to get someone from getting the other two off the basement hooks. Let her crawl to the hatch since I couldn't find her? If I had've picked her up, the other 3 would have gotten off. Couldn't find her on the ground, and being first person means I can't see in all directions to make sure she doesn't crawl to it. And no, not ALL survivors earn Adrenaline. The ones doing gens do. The ones being super immersed or being chased and downed do not. If all survivors earned the perk, that would mean all of them did 1.25 gens. In fact that should be a prerequisite.
As for the killer doing nothing to earn NOED, that's the nature of hex perks. They're strong, but can be removed. If you want the killer to have to EARN NOED, it should be made where gets the exposed status effect on all survivors after killing two survivors and no longer be a hex perk. At that point "he has completed his objective" meaning that it would be just like Adrenaline. So would you prefer that? Or would you prefer being able to disable it?
Of course in this situation, adrenaline would guarantee victory, as would NOED. I personally prefer that the perks counter each other.
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If I was being ungenerous, arguing in bad-faith and doing whatever it takes to 'win' this discussion, I would say that killers earned NOED by successfully 'protecting their totems'.
You know what is wrong with this argument and you know that I know what is wrong with that argument. I'm going to ask you to acknowledge then what is wrong with your argument that 'killers have NOED activate without earning it', because I know and I know that you are smart enough to also see it.
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Horrible idea. It belongs in the Survivor's subforum witg the wishful thinking tag.
NOED is already earn when survivors don't cleanse totems.
Escape quickly or cleanse totems
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oh, who said it was only a gamble on the killers side?
it is also a gamble on the survivors side aswell: shall i cleanse the totems in case there is NOED? chances are, that you spent quite some time off the gens for nothing, yet if the killer had NOED, you get a big reward for cleansing. you can also decide to not cleanse at all, which would allow you to repair gens faster, therefore you are endangered by a potential NOED activation.
now, since you called it the "safest Hex Perk", its also the only perk in this entire game that can literally be 100% useless. also, you cant defend it properly, since you, unless you run TOTH, have no way of telling how many totems you have left. any other Hex perk starts with a burning totem that allows you to defend it against the survivors.
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"its also the only perk in this entire game that can literally be 100% useless."
Wrong. Ever heard of Third Seal and Devour hope getting cleansed before hitting a survivor/getting a token?.
If the killer cannot apply the gen pressure to stop your team from getting gens done, then they don't deserve the instadown and speed boost that they get. Plain and simple. Call me an elitist nurse main all you want but I've played other killers and have gotten 4ks without Noed (and no, I'm not talking Billy and Spirit. I'm talking Wraith and Pig). There are instances where the killer should be disadvantaged. They shouldn't get to be powerful at every stage of the game.
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Okay onto you. Make smarter decisions. If you think that guy is gonna get to the hatch before you can find him, then pick him up and let the others get off so the hatch doesn't open and you buy yourself more time. Also, cleansing 5 totems strewn about the map to solve Devour hope is unfair as #########. You wanna build around it then defend ur totem. I agree totem spawns need fixed, but you shouldn't need to do 5 times the work to deal with 1 perk.
Also if a Survivior running Adrenaline loops you while the others do gens then they were being a team player and helping buy their teammates time to finish the gen. Ergo they do deserve adrenaline. I'd argue they deserved it the most seeing as how they did the hardest job successfully.
My Noed rework/change/nerf would be to either make the crutch less powerful or a ground up "you gotta earn this" perk. Or to allow small game to reveal auras again and grant bonus item charge when you cleanse a dull totem. Either remove the haste or remove the insta down if you wanna nerf NOED. That and/or give Surviviors more knowledge. One idea I proposed was to create a line of "latent" totem perks. Basically the perk is tied to a single dull totem. If a Survivior cleanses a normal dull totem then a small blue flame comes from the broken totem that alerts the Survivior that there is a latent totem on the map. Cleansing the latent totem is treated like a normal dull totem with the latent effect, and the next dull totem is treated as a normal cleanse without the blue flame, so at best for the Survivior they gotta hit 2 totems to know for sure that the perk is down.
Where In the killer directives from the entity did it ever say "defend the totems". In fact the two directives are "sacrifice meat to please the Entity" and "do not let the light in". AKA, kill the Surviviors and prevent the gens from getting done. Nothing about totems. And I appreciate if you would drop the condescending "you know you're wrong" line bc it's very annoying. And if you want me to be as flippant as you're coming off, I can probably guess that you run Noed and aren't comfortable seeing ur perk be the topic of controversy. It's ok tho, I remember when Surviviors defended old decisive....wait NVM pretty much all of them admitted it was a horseshit perk. Well at least they were adamant that met...wait no they admitted MoM was OP too...I guess they have more humility.
Survivors not cleansing totems isn't contingent on your actions. Ergo, no, you didn't do jack ######### to earn it. If your perk triggering is contingent on the Survivior actions/inactions, then it's not a perk earned it's a perk given.
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When it comes to the examples you provide then you are correct. But when it comes to instadowns, that stuff needs to be something YOU did to earn it.
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Deliverance rewards you for altruistic gameplay and for not being the first one hooked.
Unbreakable I could see needing some changes to trigger.
Borrowed time and D strike require the survivor to be a victim of toxic killers, ergo the requirements for it to trigger are fine. You only get hit with BT and D strike when you deserve to get hit by it.
Exhaustion perks are what give Surviviors the chance to survive chases and they've been nerfed already. They're fine.
None of what you said here makes any sense. The comparable action that Surviviors have to instadowns is instaheals, and every instaheal that Surviviors have access to either:
A. Require Surviviors to win their primary objective for survival (adrenaline).
B. Have a significant drawback (styptics and syringes. Will destroy ur medkit).
Meanwhile the comparable equivalent to instaheals that Surviviors have access to, killers have a bigger abundance of. Noed has no drawback in the perk aside from that it can be cleansed. Instaheals can be countered by Plague/Franklin's. Adrenaline is countered by not losing. MYC is countered by hook bombing, haunted ground is countered by not doing Totems. Devour hope is countered by doing totems. There's more but I really don't wanna dig into it.
See what I mean? Instaheals have either a requirement of good gameplay or carry a penalty. Instadowning in the case of Noed doesn't reward good gameplay, and doesn't carry an inherently penalty
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Ok, you avoided addressing my point by just editing it out. Nice.
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This thread is basically "I play nurse and ignore all concepts of skill used to resist the killer, can break the dynamic of the game by being 40 places at once and everybody else should just git gud like nurse"
As a pig main, I'm glad you're not a developer....
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Except that's NOT what I'm saying. What I am saying is that instadowns are incredibly impactful, and therefore the trigger for them should be either A.) Earned by the killer (Devour hope. Myc, etc). B.) Anchored on a short time limit (Myers tier 3, Haunted ground) and C.) NOT PROVIDED AS A DO OVER.
Noed fulfills category C in the bad way. It's given to killers who do not fulfill their jobs. Forget dull totems, as long as there is no emphasis on doing them aside from the Spectre of Noed, Surviviors have an excuse to not cleanse them. Killers have to fail BOTH of their core objectives to let Noed trigger. Surviviors have to fail 1. Killers fail harder than Surviviors in the event Noed triggers. Automatically that makes it a crutch perk for killers.
(I'm guessing you main killer so correct yhis assumption if it's wrong and I'm sorry if it is) but you and other killer mains sit here and argue that Surviviors get too many second chance perks. Like...lmao?
Deliverance requires good gameplay, Unbreakable requires you be slugged. D strike and BT require you get tunnelled and camped. MoM requires you tank 3 protection hits. Any good second chance perk was either gutted or reworked to make it counter toxic gameplay. Meanwhile Noed was...left alone. Bc it is supposed to match adrenaline, which requires the survivors actually win their objective in order to get it.
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NOED is not an issue. It's easily countered so it does not need a rework.
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Like you I am a solo survivor but I don't see Noed as a problem. Killer still has to hit you.
As killer I would never waste a perk slot on Noed. I do better with other perks instead.
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I like the idea that it only takes a broken totem. Run RUIN and NOED, either destroy ruin and risk NOED, or keep ruin and deny NOED.
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