Ruin and NOED
The way I see it they are both crutch perks but people have been meta slaving so hard Ruin is their life blood.
Ruin doesn't make that much of a difference and all it does when playing survivors that are optimal is have it so 2 gens get done while ruin gets destroyed and the killer gets their first hook.
The main issue I have with noed is the killer is being given a second chance after allowing endgame to occur. The game to me is lost to the killer and it's just them scrambling to get what they can scavenge for points/kills as long as the survivors allow it.
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I think you are just trolling, but for the off chance you really mean it.
A lot of killers lack the map and gen pressure and rely on the slow down of Ruin to get a chance.
It either slows down the genrush a little bit or occupies survivors by letting them searching for the totem and waste some of their time this way.
For a killer these 16s can make a difference.
NOED is like Ruin a strategical perk. It either forces the survivors to cleanse all the totems (secondary objective beside gens) and buying the killer some time or punishes the survivors for genrushing by exposing them.
Those are valid perks and offer different playstyles and are no crutches.
If you want crutches there are:
Dead Hard, you can save yourself from a misplay by pressing a button.
MoM shields you from one hit after stacking it.
Adrenaline, gives you a free health state after powering the gates.
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Tbh ruin i don't see a issue i use small game n break all the totems to begin with noed i do understand since Metal of man got rework why can't surviours have a nice strong perk aswell? i honestly think if a killer has a insta down capability through add ons,perks and abilities they shouldnt be able to use noed thats my opinion
Open to friendly debates
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Ruin is not a crutch, it's pretty much the only thing bad killers have too pressure gens. And I find it entitled that you think that once EGC has begun the game is over. It's far from over with perks like Noed, Bloodwarden, Remember me, etc. noed is not a crutch if you use it too counter gen rushes. If you rely on it solely then yes, but you should also cleanse totems. In the end, if you get killed by Noed or don't touch gens because of ruin, it's the survivors fault for not taking the time too find them or power through them.
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noed also punishes those teams that think they have the game won by only doing gens and then everything changes 😀 and before you know it people are running around like chickens to find that totem while there are still 4 dull totems if survivors only did totems maybe noed wouldnt be used that much
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If a 'crutch' depends on the other side playing sub-optimally and 'allowing it' to work, it's not a crutch.
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The thing is you immediately regret getting the hex totem the moment it's destroyed and you could have replaced it with something more useful.
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The reason why i call ruin is crutch is because you will have survivors in your game that are so inept they can't hit one hex skill check. So what they do is crouch around the map endlessly searching for the totem.
Sure It's nice to slap on ruin and get a game where the gens don't pop instantly but it's not in the killers control how well it does. That doesn't make it weak either as it does waste time for survivors and allow more opportunities for the killer to gain momentum.
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It's a relatively crutch perk (Ruin) and 16s is nothing so don't try to convince me. If you want extra time you should try pop goes the weasel, its a dependable perk that rewards a hook and allows you to take back some time off the generators.
Ruin is such a lazy way of playing and the people that use it probably say a silent prayer to themselves that it stays up for longer than a minute so they can make more mistakes in the trial but still come out victorious.
If you play without flaw and you correctly guess which generators the survivors are making progress on you'll succeed.
Adrenaline rewards a survivor that outlasted the killer so if you are running noed to counter that or to counter a genrush then you are a sad person. Just accept your defeat and refine your perk build to compliment the killer and their add ons.
Dead hard can only be used once within a chase and it takes timing to use so although it can be strong it has counterplay.
Mettle of man is for altruistic survivors mainly now and there's no real indicator that they have it until it's activated. It's a perk that has strength to it but its a gamble if you are able to get 3 hook saves or 3 protection hits or a combination of the two.
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I'd say keep allowing it only to expose how insecure they are of their skill and their lack of intelligence believing redundancy is the key to success in this game.
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Both Ruin and NOED are symptoms of a bigger issue in Dead by Daylight, where the killer cannot exert enough pressure to stop the generators from being done.
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They are perfectly legitimate perks to use, easily countered by Small Game and/or Detective's Hunch.
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Please feel free to read.
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Ruin is a years old bandaid for a years old problem that seems to be low or zero priority for the devs. The role of killer is on paper the power role. The role that survivors should be reacting to. In practice, the killer is very reactionary pretty much from the start. What is the most optimal way to deal with the killer? Limit the amount of time they have to react to what your doing. Now, you as the killer have a few tools at your disposal, but Ruin is the best in slot tool when at tier 3. It's fire and forget, drags the game out and puts survivors into reaction mode which is where killers need them to be.
Devs could adjust the core gameplay to make that less of a necessity, but we're 3 years in with no change in sight. Both sides get to a point where if you want to press upward in rank you have to be a meta slave.
Noed is something that shouldn't be a subject of discussion. The devs have said multiple times that they feel noed is in a good place. If you look at the history of the perk it has seen more changes than any other perk in the game. Most suggestions for the perk want to go back to the original things they tried and found didn't work. The more original suggestions want to add more stipulation to its activation under the belief that it should be "earned". The issue is that the game is full of perks that give strong benefits without being "earned". The survivor meta features a majority of these perks and has the most endgame perks. Noed sits right where it should as an endgame option should survivors be too complacent in ensuring their survival.
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Tell me about the high variety of killers at high ranks.
There are 16 killers in the game.
Maybe you know something we all don't so please enlighten us.
Could you do me a favor and go through each killer and teach me how to make them all constantly viable at high ranks independent of add-ons?
How do you play them at high rank?
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i play mostly wraith and legion at high rank and do fine
of course sometimes i play like garbage and lose or other times i get fractured cowshed with an even more busted setup than usual and the game slides out of my hands before i can put enough pressure out
map design being improved over time will go a long way towards making these killers more playable against better survivors. we need less enormous maps filled with stuff
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If you think the game is lost at endgame then that's your fault, because that's not how it works. You don't inherently win by completing 5 generators, you haven't 100% earned your escape points. The killer has next to no pressure when endgame starts so NOED is a means of keeping up pressure during the final stage of the game. Do some killers crutch on it to get kills? Sure. Doesn't change the fact that survivors had the option to deny those kills. It has numerous counters and counterplay. Plus god knows there's half a dozen crutch survivor perks already.
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So because you have people in your team who can't hit simple skill checks, ruin is consider a clutch? Okay.....Perfect logic
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I mostly play Survivor, but good Killers don’t need Ruin, and good survivors can work through it easily. The only thing I would like to be done about an NOED is for a totem count to be added to the UI. This would help solo survivors to know where the we stand they stand at any given point, and allow killers to defend their dull totems. Noticing a killer defend dull totems to predict NOED seems like a more reasonable counter play than what we currently have live.
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Yeah you're right, ruin can allow killers with less mobility or potential to create opportunities for themselves to sacrifice all the survivors.
Basically by hooking a survivor you create an objective that if not completed (by letting the survivor rot on hook) it will hinder their ultimate goal of escape.
Noed just throws the challenge of capturing survivors and pins a badge on the killer letting them know its okay and that they won.
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Well to me they are both crutches and I've refused to depend on either to gain rank or improve myself on killers, those are just my standards i suppose. Some people are okay with being given a breath of life to improve their experience playing the game but I see it as taking away from the full experience and the challenge.
Also being forced to work within a meta just to do good isn't as rewarding to me.
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Yes I agree with this but would like to add killers with mobility have the advantage but it's not lost for killers that lack mobility. I don't like when people make the excuse to constantly run ruin along with noed on say a trapper. It's a load of bologna, what's so wrong with learning how to navigate the map and use intuition to slow gen progress instead of depending deeply on a perk to buy them extra time to make up for their bad reads.
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Yes you'll have games where you won't play flawlessly and survivors will fly through the gens and maps on this game greatly benefit or conflict with specific killers and their potential.
It's an unfortunate thing and survivors are blind to it and will tbag at gate while you played say the plague on rotten fields and sure you can do good with her on that map but the time it takes to hook and defend generators your only hope is to choose what generators to defend in a cluster. Its foolish to think you'll be able to keep 7 gens incomplete but if you work within the strengths of the killer you are using and be realistic about which gens are able to stay within your grasp you'll at least black pip.
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If you say Ruin doesn't do much, then it can't possibly be a crutch Perk, not to you at least.
A crutch Perk is what can be used by casuals to gain more power while it would overpower skilled players.
If Ruin doesn't only do little, but also does little regardless of skill, it's nothing like a crutch Perk.
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Here's an example to help you comprehend what I'm getting at.
The match starts and uusually survivors spawn fairly close to each other so more than likely someone will be doing a generator with you. You can hit every hex skill check while they consistently miss their greats or worse blow the gen and alert the killer of your presence.
Now you'll say "oh then go on a gen and solo it" well that's time you are using to run to a different gen instead of finishing the one you were on. Then what happens is the killer hooks someone and creates a new objective. They can camp or proxy the hook while a poor soul tries to save the hooked survivor but they will just be trading hooks until one or both are dead.
Meanwhile a gen is complete and maybe ruin is destroyed but a survivor has been sacrificed and another is on death hook hiding in a locker. The one perk ruin can allow bad games to occur and grant a false sense of actual skill, which Is why I shall continue to call it a relative crutch.
Barely has an effect on optimal survivors making it not as effective to use.
Disables inept survivors rendering them useless to their team basically existing in the just to be found and hooked.
It's a team game so yes the one, two, or three teammates that can't hit a skill check will have an adverse effect on you and ultimately the result of the match.
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Its what I'd call a relative crutch perk since there are plenty of survivors that struggle greatly with it.
In turn that will result in a longer game and more time for the killer to kill.
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Some people struggling with it doesn't make it a crutch, especially not when this crutch is one of the few abilities with the easiest counter.
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Yes it does because that makes the perk better than it should be, people run ruin in hopes they miss the hex skill checks and when they do then it's a crutch perk. Alot of people find it impossible or too frustrating to play without it so it's absolutely a crutch in that sense.
I can say I've done well for myself on every killer without a perk dependant on the mistakes of survivors, I don't think many others can say the same.
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Shut up before I take your Dead Hard, Adrenaline, Deliverance, Decisive Strike, Toolboxes, 3 teammates, pallets, balanced landing, and insta heals
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Oh so you want to assume I'm a survivor main? Well I'm not.
I play every killer in a rotation except billy, doctor, trapper. I just have higher standards than most people and would rather not depend on a perk to carry me.
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