Just gonna point this out
Dream snare: Has 3 seconds of slowdown, only is used up when triggered, can be set up so it’s ready to stop the loop as soon as you get to it, Killer has a maximum of 10 to deploy, gets them back instantly when they are triggered
Most of the community: Dream snares are an underwhelming ability
Clown’s bottles: Has 2 seconds of slowdown, only lasts temporarily, must be deployed while already being looped and slows the Killer down for using it, Killer has a maximum of 4 to deploy, must be manually reloaded which makes the Killer slower than a walking Survivor
Most of the community: Clown is an A-tier Killer
🤔
Comments
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Dream snares seem fine to me. I think it's just the fake pallets are so much stronger, so people would probably end up picking those most of the time. Also, Clown is A-tier?
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Maximum of 8 snares actually
The clown can throw the bottle ahead of himself, the 2 seconds is a minimum time, it's very likely to last much longer so having it last 4 or 5 seconds is very common, the bottles can be used on any survivor regardless of their status (freddy can only do asleep survivors) and bottles can be thrown much faster than a snare can be deployed.
Also Clowns barely B tier.
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Dream pallets are garbage; there’s a plethora of foolproof counters.
And yes, a large portion of the community thinks Clown is A-tier, despite him being one of the worst, if not the worst, Killer in the entire game—which I’m willing to bet is why his only buff since his release was a “bug fix” that prevented him from losing PWYF stacks when throwing bottles.
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“The clown can throw the bottle ahead of himself”
Doesn’t really matter when Survivors have the time to get to a window or pallet, especially when throwing the bottle slows him down.
“it's very likely to last much longer so having it last 4 or 5 seconds is very common”
No, it’s not.
“the bottles can be used on any survivor regardless of their status (freddy can only do asleep survivors)”
Hitting them puts them to sleep, so that’s a partial solution to your problem.
It’s also highly likely they’ll fall asleep while you’re chasing them, so there’s another partial solution to your problem.
“(freddy can only do asleep survivors) and bottles can be thrown much faster than a snare can be deployed.”
Snares can also be set up as a trap preemptively, much like Hag or Trapper, unlike Clown’s bottles, which must be used right then and there, so you don’t have to waste time throwing them and slowing yourself down when you get to a loop. The ability to place your traps ahead of time to lie in wait in a strategic position also prevents a Survivor getting slowed down by a trap from countering it by just sitting at a pallet, unlike Clown’s bottles.
”Clown’s barely B-tier”
No, he’s the third worst Killer in the game.
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Lol no one with real time in this game thinks Clown is A tier. Clown is like Doc, he can be annoying and if your team is trash he can 4k but he is a mediocre killer at best. Clown and Doc both need to be reworked.
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Doesn't his snares work like Hag's traps, though? @NuclearBurrito You can still put them down at whatever loop you're near to, it'll just recycle them.
I dunno. A lot of people seem hyped for the pallets. And it's like Nuclear said. He's like B tier. Like barely B, B-. His power can help in chase and can help trick people out.
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Idk man, I’ve seen a total of like 3 or 4 other people on this site actually realizing that Clown is trash.
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Clown is worst killer in the game imo
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Clown doesn't loss speed on bottle toss or walking around while holding a bottle ready to throw. He only slows down when he needs to reload. Also considering addons like Flask of Bleach and Solvent Jug are go to addons for the clown that aren't super hard to come by you can expect to be hindered for longer than the base 2 seconds.
Also clown isn't the worst killer in the game by a long shot, but he's nowhere near A-tier. He's directly in the middle. His biggest weakness is lack of map pressure, but he's average at literally everything else.
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Clown's gas isn't terrible. It doubles his ability to catch up to the Survivors and forces early pallet drops.
Freddy's power does a lot of this too but the relatively low limits of it make Freddy snares the worse power. What Freddy DOES have is his teleport, which has way more potential even with the 5 second thing.
And yeah his pallets are 100% overrated. They don't really do anything.
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They are not overrated at all, most survivors dont remember exactly which pallets they threw down let alone what their teammates did. What it also does it makes survivors hesitate throwing pallets in chase in hopes they can get to window or a less risky pallet. Dream pallets end chases way faster then snares do and dont need to be nerfed or buffed.
New Freddy does however have a huge problem. For some reason he loses his ability to teleport to gens when the exit gates are powered. This makes him an M1 killer with no power. Snaring the gate switches doesnt do enough and obviously pallets are only good for chase.
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“Clown doesn't loss speed on bottle toss or walking around while holding a bottle ready to throw”
Nice try, but there are literally addons for reducing the cooldown he suffers from after throwing a bottle.
“Also clown isn't the worst killer in the game by a long shot, but he's nowhere near A-tier.”
No, he’s the third worst Killer in the game, easily. His power is countered by sitting at a pallet or just not being afraid of the gas, and because of that lack of map pressure you mentioned, he has no way of punishing Survivors for just camping pallets against him because by the time they’re all gone, the gens are finished and the gates are open.
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”It doubles his ability to catch up to Survivors”
Doesn’t matter if they’re already at a loop, which they will be.
”forces early pallet drops”
Doesn’t matter if the other 3 Survivors are doing gens, which they will be.
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Clown. A-tier.
Have you played this game other than during free weekends?
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who on god's green earth is calling clown an A-tier killer
your points about him being a bad killer aren't solid though. they effectively boil down to "camping pallets counters clown". this means he goes through pallets super quickly
as far as killers who have to deal with loops go (so not spirit and nurse), clown's definitely not bad
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Houston, we have a Bruh moment.
I have said multiple times already that Clown is an F-tier Killer in my opinion. My original post is very clearly quoting what I hear from the majority of the community. And what I hear from the majority of the community is that Clown is an A-tier Killer.
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See, it’s a very simple formula.
Clown's power actually does something to prevent loops. This means the most effective strategy is not looping him. However, because the gens go so fast, it doesn’t matter if the Survivors waste pallets or not.
Ironically, other M1 Killers are better than Clown because they’re loopable, so Survivors try to loop them, which gives those Killers the opportunity to capitalize on the mistakes that Survivors make. Intelligent Survivors don’t take that risk against Clown, so he doesn’t get that opportunity.
Camping pallets counters every loopable Killer. It’s just that camping pallets is the best way to counter Clown.
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Yeah ok, but I mean no one says that. A majority of the community? No way. 9 out of 10 in the forums say he's trash tier, the rest says "ok against loops, helpless against genrush". Which is basically what you're saying, no disagreement here.
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I’ve seen like 3 or 4 people on these forums acknowledge that Clown is garbage, half of which are you and some other guy with a Clown pfp.
And I don’t think that Clown is ok against loops but helpless against genrushing. I think he’s helpless against both.
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It's even better if they are in a loop. Since they either have to leave the loop, or stay in the loop and be caught twice as fast compared to most M1 Killers.
I'm not saying he's amazing, but most Killer's have even less going for them.
When the Wraith is trying to chase someone in a loop they have to go through the entire loop at minimum speed. Doctor might be able to pull some shock tricks but any slowdown won't be as effective as the clowns would be and it's useless in simply catching up. Leatherface's chainsaw will almost never hit a Survivor due to how close you need to be in order to use it. Pig as the same problem as wraith. Legion is fine for the first hit but has no power for the second, and 4 seconds is plenty of time to get somewhere that the Legion can't hit him in a reasonable time frame. Trapper takes forever to setup anything and that's only if his traps aren't disarmed immediately.
Everyone I didn't mention is better than clown though.
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I’ll say to you what I said to someone else: Clown’s power being anti-loop is his ultimate downfall, because it doesn’t have the crucial ability that all other anti-loop powers have: the ability to counteract pallets.
Let’s take a look at what most people believe to be the most powerful “anti-loop” Killers: Nurse, Huntress, and Spirit. What do all of three of these Killers have in common that makes their anti-loop ability good? The ability to prevent pallets from making Survivors impervious to damage.
Spirit can make a Survivor uncertain if they should drop a pallet or not, and even if they do and stop her in her tracks, she’s so fast that she can walk around the other side of the loop—or make Survivors think she’s doing that and scare them into vaulting back over to her.
Huntress has a ranged weapon that can go over pallets and through windows.
Nurse teleports through pallets.
Hell, even Killers whose anti-loop abilities aren’t regarded as strong (even if some of them really should be *cough* Hag *cough*) still have some semblance of pallet circumvention.
Legion can jump over dropped pallets. Trapper can trap you in place. Hag can place a trap that yanks your camera away from your path to a pallet, or teleports her into a position where she isn’t blocked by the pallet. Pig can do an extended ambush that can easily catch up to a Survivor if she is at the pallet or mindgame the Survivor if they are at the pallet. Doctor can remove your ability to use pallets entirely.
Clown has nothing in favor of that. His power does not allow him to become impervious to pallets in any way, and if a Survivor sits at a pallet instead of trying to loop him, there is nothing he can do. The only opportunity he has is if the pallet is unsafe enough to be mindgamed by normal M1 means—and at that point, there is no point to using his power.
There’s no purpose to using it to catch up, because the Survivor can and will get to a pallet before then, and if the Survivor is already at a pallet, then there is no purpose to using his power as an anti-loop ability, because they won’t try to loop you if they know what you’re doing. His power effectively has no value if a pallet just exists.
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Yeah and other than the pig and trapper who have bigger weaknesses and Legion who can't use his power like that to down without an iridescent addon everyone you just listed I have acknowledged as being better than the Clown.
Hag can deal with pallets and is better than the Clown. I regard her as A tier
Spirit can go around pallets and is better than the Clown
Nurse is Nurse
The thing is that most Killers also can't deal with pallets. Even pig can only sort of deal with some pallets and even then it's a mindgame and I consider her to be competing for the clowns spot on the tier list because of it.
Docs anti-loop is worse than clowns, legions is too restrictive, wraith doesn't have anything, trappers takes too long and is too easy to disable,
Myers has the same weakness with Pallets but more advantages with all 3 of his tiers so he's a more solid B tier. Plague is like a Legion with more build synergy, a Plague with a good build is better than a clown with a good build. Ghostface is better than Clown since he can use his stealth+expose to end loops before they start (unlike wraith and pig who cannot).
Yeah clown has weaknesses, and yes those weaknesses hold him back quite a bit. But that doesn't automatically make him ######### tier when you're comparison is mostly Killers who have the exact same problems but worse.
Anyways I consider Clown to be the line you have to cross in order to qualify for being good. Clown himself doesn't cross the line, but he's close enough to be a decent point of reference. Killers that are worse than him are varying degrees of bad and Killers than are better than him are varying degrees of good.
Clown himself is just the best of the worst.
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Regarding getting improved on, clown is in the worst possible position however.
He's good enough to justify not buffing him, but bad enough that he needs buffs.
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Clown's gas covers a way larger area, goes through windows and over objects, and is very quickly deployed - making it infinitely more dynamic in chases than Dream Snares. All Dream Snares have over bottles is they don't have to be reloaded, and they can be placed in advance (though sometimes this is actually a downside as they can be triggered with no penalty and wasted).
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If by “best” of the worst you mean “top of F tier” then you’d be correct. The fact that his power is so “good” at stopping loops is literally useless because of its inability to circumvent pallets in any capacity. If anything, it makes it worse, because Survivors DON’T want to loop him and just waste pallets—a tactic that, as utterly wasteful and inefficient as it is, is not sufficiently punishable if everyone else is on generators.
The fact that Clown is still countered by pallets makes his “anti-loop” power worse at chases than a basic M1 Killer. His power literally counters itself. The fact that even a basic M1 Killer like Myers, Ghostface, Wraith, or Freddy is better than Clown is because Survivors try to loop them, because that is the most efficient strategy. When Survivors try to loop them, they get the opportunity to try and force the Survivors to make mistakes, thus landing them hits.
The most efficient strategy against Clown is camping pallets. He doesn’t get that same opportunity to force out mistakes from Survivors that loopable Killers do. He just gets pallets. The simple fact that Clown is not able to circumvent pallets makes the fact that he is not loopable a hindrance.
TL;DR: Camping pallets is an effective tactic against any M1 Killer in a chase; it’s just the only effective tactic against Clown in a chase and there is nothing he can do.
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Looping is more optimal than camping a pallet.
If every Survivor camps the pallets instead of looping them against a clown then the clown will finish chases significantly faster than other M1 killers
And with a good build even then you'll still get the Survivors faster than an M1 Killer would in the same situation, since you can throw a bottle over the pallet before breaking it, thus reducing the amount of distance they gain on you by 15%.
Forcing them to use a suboptimal strategy to face you is powerful in of itself. Imagine if every survivor always immediately dropped the god pallet. That would make looping the Killer shack so much easier.
And once they do drop the pallet that spot becomes unsafe, moreso than against most Killers (but not moreso than against the best Killers) meaning that both in the long run and in the short run your power is helping you significantly.
Combine that with the fact that they need to be twice as close to a pallet than normal in order to make it and he's much better than any Killer who doesn't have a good chasing ability of their own.
And that's ignoring the fact that good timing and some red glow mindgames can sometimes let you hit a Survivor camping a pallet anyways, as well as builds like SF + Enduring.
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Yeah, you could try all these strategies and justify it as much as you like.
Or, you know, the Survivor could just run to other pallets and loops while the other 3 hold M1 on gens.
That’s also a possibility.
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That is not Clown's disadvantage, instead it's the Survivors advantage of having too many pallets close to each other. If Legion can get a guaranteed first hit, then he should be better right? No.
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Legion is worse than Clown because while Clown has a power with a consistent value of zero, Legion has a power with a consistent negative value. It wastes his own time if he ever tries to use it for more than just a free first hit.
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Have you played Clown? When you throw a bottle, you enter a cooldown during which you cannot attack, use items, or otherwise interact—and, more importantly, you slow down to a crawl and gradually and choppily ramp up to your normal movement speed of 4.6 m/s as your cooldown draws to a close. The addons that reduce the cooldown cause the ramp-up to be much faster as there is less time taken to reach normal movement speed.
Go into KYF with a buddy and see how fast Clown moves while constantly throwing bottles without cooldown addons. I guarantee you he’ll struggle to catch up to a walking Survivor.
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Other Killers have the exact same problem. Wraith isn't stopping them from dropping the pallet and leaving any more than Clown is.
The difference is that Clown stops them from running around the pallet for like 10 seconds before doing so.
Over the course of like 10 pallets the time save adds up. It can easily save a lot of time every chase.
You can say his power doesn't guarantee a down all you want, but that doesn't explain how the other lower tier Killers are any better.
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Those 10 seconds are something a Killer needs to chase Survivor and put them in a position at the loop where a pallet isn’t immediately there to save them. It’s at this point that the Killer is given the opportunity to force the Survivor to make mistakes, run away from the loop, et cetera. This is where and how mindgames take place.
The fact that Survivors just camp and waste pallets means that Clown does not get the opportunity to mindgame. He approaches the Survivor, the Survivor throws down the pallet, and the only real option now is breaking the pallet while the Survivor runs away—something that not even his bottles can help him with.
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Well, I can say from my experience playing Clown and from the experience of my good friend, who is a hardcore Clown main that habitually plays perkless Clown, that Clown’s slowdown is AIDS and his entire power is countered by just camping pallets.
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Your first mistake is not thinking pallets are an issue.
Your second mistake is thinking that just because you broke a single pallet, that means the chase wasn’t a complete and utter waste of your time.
Your third mistake is playing Clown.
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We have Legion in the game. Clown isn't close to having those issues.
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He does slow down when holding a bottle out; it's just not much. I think he becomes a 110 killer while holding it out, or so it feels.
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It’s actually slower than the speed of a walking Survivor.
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freddys power only works in dream clowns works all the time.
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