"Power role"
I hear the term of "the power role" mentioned quite abit on these forums and youtube videos pertaining to DBD. I wanna know what your thoughts about the term in general. What does it mean in your own words and can you give an example of "the power role" in another game OUTSIDE of this genre.
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Is hide and go seek tag considered this genre? Most of the games I can think of is comparing lower monsters to bosses, but that really isn't the same thing at all.
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Power role is a meme to justify one side getting buffs.
This game works better with no power roles imo. Just players and their skill.
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It's not a meme, it's the term used to describe the team with less players, in this case it's the killer. In Evolve's it's the monster, F13 Jason, Last Year the killer etc.
The sole originator of decisions of a team over the cooperative potential of four people with less singular power than the individual.
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In an asymmetrical game with two sides, one side is generally 'the power role' and the other is 'the one with the numbers'.
In Left4Dead versus-mode, the immune Survivors are the power role and the Infected are the numbers. Balance is maintained by each team taking it in turns and the Infected get multiple chances to respawn.
In Evolve, the Monster is the power-role and the Hunters are the numbers. Balance is done by allowing Hunters multiple chances to respawn and the Monster gets progressively stronger, reflecting their intended advantages.
In this game, Survivors are both. The Killer role only exists because they couldn't program an AI to do it.
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it's a dumb term that killer players use when they feel entitled to easy wins
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Do you think killers and survivors should be equal? Should 1 survivor be able to distract the killer for the whole duration of the match even if both players skill is equal?
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I feel like the idea of "power role" would pertain to something along the lines of a DM in dungeons and dragons or a boss battle in other games. The purpose of the role isnt to win, but to provide a suitable challenge to be overcome. In dark souls, Ive seen players beat the whole thing without bothering to even lvl up. In this example, the Bosses are still the power role, but the player facing them isnt FORCED to lvl their character in any particular way to beat them. You dont HAVE to bring a specific weapon or play style. I feel the problem with all these asymetrical games is whoever is on the side with fewer players feels THEY are in the power role...and of course...as ANY player would want, they want to WIN.
I feel like another example of a character in the power role would be Shao Kahn when hes played as a boss. While the character is perceived as OP, the AI is forced to use taunts which opens it up to counter attacks. If this was a person... it would be COMPLETELY OP with just spamming unblockable attacks and never giving those taunts.
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no, and that's not possible, so this is moot
if a killer is getting run by 1 survivor for the entire match there's a huge disparity in skill at work
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To me, a power role is a figure that you can not beat in a duel straightforward. You have to play it smart against a power role. Dead by Daylight's killer should not be considered a power role if the survivors are not crippled.
Killer has to play it smart just like survivors in a chase. When the killer has more than 1 survivor on a hook or dead or in dying state, the killer is the power role. Hence, the killer can easily defeat the rest of the survivors, because their numbers are too low to fight against the pressure which the killer is applying.
I am not counting in perks into this. Perks allow to change the outcome of a match. Some give too much info and advantage in my honest opinion.
With this in mind, how can a single survivor deal against a killer? They have to depend on their teammates. You could say that the scare/pressure factor is very important and should be used to the maximum potential when playing killer, otherwise the rest of the team will be able to exit the trial at anytime, and so the survivors will be the power role there.
TL;DR Killer's optimal mindset should be "You're stuck in here with me" and attempt to stop survivors from activating the exit gates. That makes them the power role.
I should mention, the killer being pressured is not unusual for this game.
Oh wait example in another game outside this genre. Closest i can think of is Mr.X(coat form) in Resident Evil 2, because you don't want to waste your ammo on him. Even if he is invincible, he's more of an annoyance. He could be a threat to a new player who has no experience.
Post edited by [Deleted User] on0 -
It's the role who's individual members are on average stronger than the other teams average individual members.
In a game of werewolf the wolves are the power role for example.
While it's not required, the numbers role is usually playing reactionary to the power role who predominantly determines the flow of the game. Dead by Daylight is an example of this not being the case, while Deathguarden, Evolve and most social deduction games are examples of this being true.
Not all asymmetrical games have to have a power role, and it is actually possible for the team with more players to be the power role and still have more players, simply by giving the other team tools to avoid confrontation in the first place.
The true misconception is that the Killers in this game is not the power role. They are, if you spawned a game with only 1 Survivor they would lose almost every time even without the EGC. The 1 survivor who is distracting the Killer is NOT 1v1ing the Killer, since the distraction only has value with the other 3 survivors keeping pressure.
It's also not true that the power role is overall stronger than the other team. When taking as a whole both teams should still be of equal power, it should just be more spread out with the numbers role than the power role. If the power role is winning disproportionally to the other team then that's still a balance issue.
I say average because if your game has 2 teams where 1 team is a team of 4 with 1 stronger and more important player with 3 less important players vs a team of 2 strong players (but less strong than the 1 player on the other team) then the team of 2 is still the power role inspite of the outlier.
In that example it would also be valid to say that the 1 player is the power role of team 1. It just depends on your scope.
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I would define it as: The power role is to be able to beat the odds of being outnumbered.
This was my first game ever to be asymmetrical though, so no examples from me.
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If anything, i find the player character to be the power role between the player and the boss.
But regardless of that, i answered this question within the context of both roles needing a player or players to fill said roles.
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The power role is the side with the majority of influencing control over a match. The ability to negate/cancel efforts of the opposing side in multiple ways also weighs more heavily when in opposition to a single strong action. I find playing survivor allows me to apply a much wider range of pressure on my opponent.
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It's a meme.
At first it was to describe the role of the killer (because it is an asymmetrical game where the most survivors can do is defend themselves from a Killer's attempts at murder), but now it's often taken out of context and used in arguments to reinforce poor game concepts.
What it means is that Killers, by design, hold the upper hand because they can kill and cannot be killed. They are unique, supernatural beings that relentlessly chase down potential victims. Generally, on equal skill, they are more powerful than individual members of the opposing side. In this case, Killers are as powerful as 4 survivors, and more powerful than 3.
When people use "power role" in their posts, it describes Killers as the survivor's role in L4D2 (full agency, full control of the outcome of the game) while making survivors in DBD sound like the common infected (quickly dispensed and at the mercy of sentient players).
Post edited by Visionmaker on4 -
@Boss I feel like the term simply refers to any role in which you are forced to respond to. Shao Kahn as the final boss in mortal kombat isnt switching up his playstyle depending on which character you choose. Hes gonna throw his hammer either way. You have to respond to HIM be dodging that hammer. The devs of mortal kombat dont feel the need to buff up their boss because he doesnt win enough or something. The game doesnt have to be fair to Shao Kahn. Unfortunately when "the boss" is a living person... That person wants an equal chance of winning.
If youve ever played a match of Overwatch with one of the MANY player made "Boss battles", the best ones are when any single player in the team AGAINST the boss can avoid simply being rushed down. Its ok if the boss doesnt win half the time. Its actually fairly normal.
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@LordGlint In a single player game i'd say its always the player as well.
In PvE co op its always the boss.
Its the side thats supposed to be stronger/the obstacle to be overcome.
Like in L4D the zombies/monsters are stronger than the players the work together because the odds are stacked against them.
In single player though the monsters are fewer and weaker the 1 player is now in charge. They become the power role.
So in a 4v1 PvP game the 1 needs to be the power role stronger than the 4.
You don't make the monster weak as if one of the 4 were in single player but keep 4 anyway.
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@Bbbrian2013 So in Dark Souls, if im playing alone against a boss, im the power role, but if I bring a teammate...the boss is?
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@LordGlint If the boss is buffed to compensate for 2 players.
That would be a scenario like i mentioned at the end.
"You don't make the monster weak as if one of the 4 were in single player but keep 4 anyway."
So the 2 would be the power role
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And it's a great example of why the use of "power role" is just a meme.
It used to absolve responsibility for the outcome of any game. It implies "Because I play Killer and Killer is supposed to be more powerful, this survivor in my game should be dead", completely ignoring the fact that match ups have to be fair/balanced and account for skill, experience, and strategy.
You don't get to win at the game for clicking the "Killer" button. You have to put in as much work as the other 4 people you're facing to win.
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@Visionmaker What in your opinion IS the correct use of the term. Try thinking OUTSIDE of this particular game.
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"Correct"?
I hate the term. It's incorrect as it is. We are all players, not bots. No one gets to be stronger than the other role, it would be imbalanced and make the game pointless to play as the weaker side.
If you want to nitpick, then you can say L4D2. Survivors are the power role in L4D2. There are 4 survivors vs countless hoards. Survivors hold almost all of the power in L4D2 outside of versus mode.
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@Visionmaker Ok, so are bots allowed to be the power role? Think outside the box here. What about even outside videogames. Is the dungeon master in a game of DnD allowed to be the power role?
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Wouldn't Mr. X from Resident Evil be a power role since you can't kill him and he follows you?
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@fluffymareep Havent played the game, but if he forces you to adapt to him in some way, such as to keep moving...I suppose
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Wrong with the overpowered perks and so many pallets each map has with all the safe ones running around a killer for a while isn't hard at all.
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@NuclearBurrito As someone who had spent nearly 15 years in game design work, albeit in the table-top industry with only a brief stint in video games (I didn't enjoy the industry and walked out, since I didn't need the income nor credits), you are correct.
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Absolutely not. You can dodge his attacks. He doesn't follow you into objective rooms other than the library. He is only threatening in dead ends with zombies in, such as the parking garage jail script, where he breaks through the wall in Leon A. If you can get past the library (easy if you have planned it and you can loop him around) and the parking garage jail, he isnt a problem.
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The power role is the role who can win a game assuming neither side makes mistakes at all. Currently, survivors (read:SWF) beat all but a handful of killers, thus I'd consider them the power role most of the time.
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I don't play DnD.
But sure, the Dealer in most card games is meant to be the "power role". Lottery organizers are in the "power role". AI bosses can be the "power role".
In this example, Anima is closer to a DBD killer than Jason would be:
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i also thought this when i had 3 hours of playtime
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@Visionmaker In your example, would you consider Anima to be the "power role" even though they are MEANT to be beaten?
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But he's considered really strong, right? It's hard for any NPC to be a power role since that's usually designated for the players...
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@LordGlint at least under my definition it's possible to have a power role other than the PC in a single player game.
Some stealth games do this, where the enemies can all Kill you and you can't easily fight back or can't fight back at all. This would be a situation where the power role is also the role with more numbers. Each individual unit is stronger than you and outnumber you so the only thing you can do is out think your enemy.
The dungeon master in DnD wouldn't be a power role simply because he isn't on a side. As far as the games mechanics are concerned the dungieon master doesn't exist (not implying that DnD doesn't need a dungeon master, just that the DM isn't a player in the traditional sense).
And in symmetrical games there is obviously no power role unless you are talking about specific individual players.
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Yes. Anima is innately stronger, despite being an AI and requires substantial effort for the individual.
In what game should the "power role" not be beaten? Better yet, in what PvP game should one side should not be beaten?
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No, no yes but no. See Resident Evil games are made to make you feel like the prey, and Mr. X does a great job at that for people who don't have experience. That's what i felt when i first played the game. I switched to Claire's story and deleted the save for Leon's because i thought i needed ammo to beat Mr. X. I honestly get scared at Mr. X when i am immersed, but i am much more scared of Lickers at the same time simply because of how lethal they can be. However, I still can't get out of the Dark Room sometimes because of Mr. X :))
Basically Mr. X has a terror radius and that removes the scare factor for me, instead it makes it more of an annoyance and a pressure.
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@fluffymareep Thats actually where I would say its the complete opposite. Id say its hard for any PLAYER to be the power role, since theyre designed to lose, and merely be a strong obstacle.
Power role doesn't mean favored to win while the opposite side is the underdog.
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Btw. Just because the Killers in DBD are objectively (given my definition, under different definitions you can argue otherwise) the power role, doesn't mean they FEEL like the power role.
I would also point out that even though this can be caused by a balance issue. The issue itself isn't a balance issue. You can feel like a power role even if you're weaker than the other team overall and you can not feel like the power role even if you are given the tools to dominate the other team effortlessly.
If people don't feel like the power role as the Killer then that's a problem even if the Killer's are appropriately balanced (which is not something most people would say is true) for the same reason that having the Medium vault feel slower than it should be is a problem (where the solution was an animation change). Pretty much every QoL change or sidegrade is designed to address something like this with a few exceptions.
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I've never heard that term used anywhere else, but I would think it's the role whose movements shape the game most. So the Survivors, as Killers besides Nurse can only exploit mistakes.
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In this game, the Killer is the power role actually.
How I view it, the Survivors can't kill you, only stun you briefly. They react to what you do, if you're a good killer applying appropriate pressure with a good strategy, yes they may flashlight you and do all they can but for the majority of the time.... they're running away from you.
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@Captain_Doomsday Under that idea though, wouldnt survivors have to change their movement depending on whatever killer they face? Your movements would surely be different if you face a Huntress as opposed to a Trapper? Against one, youd look at trees as possible cover mid-chase whereas against the other, you'd look twice at any window vault or tuff of grass.
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Well, the Survivors are all identical, so it's hard to see how much they control in a dynamic way, but the Survivors move first in every situation. The Survivors begin gens until spotted, the Survivors lead chases (and their anticipated movement rules where traps and hatchets will be), and the Survivors are able to continually influence the game while 1/4 of them can occupy the Killer completely.
Killers are more powerful UNITS, but the Survivor ROLE is the center of the game.
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I don't think the term "power role" really fits well with this game.
Both sides are supposed to be able to win, while some matches are can be dominated by either side depending on skill no side is supposed to be more powerful than the other.
PS: I'm not here to argue if you think Survs/Killer is op, this is just how I see the game & why I dislike the term "power role".
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@SenzuDuck Ill actually agree completely with you, I DONT feel it fits this game well. What would you consider a "power role" and can you give an example.
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Oh, what about the monsters in Amnesia? You don't have any way to attack them and if they catch you, you die.
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I think it fits more with single player games, like you're a hero (in most games) and the outcome is you're SUPPOSED to win, you're supposed to be powerful to a point where everyone else against your character will be beat in pursuit of your character winning and reaching the end goal.
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I didn't play Amnesia. Heard of it though. There must be a way to win though, even if it is difficult. I like challenge.
Are you trying to bait me?
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They're dumb AI and they follow scripted pathing, for the most part. You win by playing stealth and sneaking past them to complete the objectives.
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Why would asking your opinion on something be baiting? o.o;
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