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I Feel Like Exhaustion Perks Are Far Too Strong.
Before I begin my rant/explanation, allow me to preempt the flow of hate that merely suggesting a nerf to anything in this game will inevitably receive.
"You're just a salty killer main!"
Yes I am a killer main, however I believe that my opinion is unbiased in regards to this topic, since I have been playing both sides since the release of this game. I understand the dynamics of both sides, and the frustrations. I also believe that certain killer perks such as Noed, Rancor, and certain killers such as Nurse and Spirit are also unbalanced, however that is not the topic of this thread.
"I think X perk is fine because Y Perk/Killer counters it."
Just because something has a counter does not make it balanced. Unless the counter to that something is part of the base abilities available to any killer/survivor than that aspect of the game needs to be altered.
"I've had little to no trouble with X perk, so you should just GIT GUD."
That's probably true. I could stand to practice at this game. I think we all could at the end of the day. However, do not just assume that I am speaking only through my own opinion on these perks. This thread has been an idea long in the making, and I have used ideas/material from many friends and community members over the years, and I'd like to think that I speak for all of them.
I can't think of any other common objections to this thread, so lets just get right into it shall we?
Note: At the end of the day this is a Discussion. By no means should you accept my words as law, nor should you outright disagree without providing any reasoning as to why. Please, feel free to suggest your own changes, or explain why you feel no changes need to be made.
Lets just get right into it.
Sprint Burst
When starting to run, break into a sprint at 150 % your normal running speed for a maximum of 3 seconds.
Causes the exhausted status effect for 60/50/40 seconds.
The main problem with this perk isn't the speed it provides, but in how it is activated. When the perk is active unless the killer is very lucky it's practically insured that you will reach safety before the killer can harm you, regardless of how bad your position may be. It also forces the survivor to walk to objectives, which can end up crippling their ability to reach objectives if they wish to preserve it.
My proposed change is simply adding a 3 second timer before the perk will activate, similar to Head On Apply Directly To The Forehead. This will not only punish survivors that don't pay attention to their surroundings/positioning, it will also allow survivors to preserve their perk without forcing themselves to be immersed.
Adrenaline
You are fueled by unexpected energy when on the verge of escape.
Instantly heal one Health State and sprint at 150 % of your normal running speed for 5 seconds when the Exit Gates are powered.
Adrenaline is on hold if you are disabled at the moment it should take effect and will activate when freed.
Adrenaline will wake you up if you are asleep when it triggers.
Adrenaline ignores Exhaustion.
Causes the Exhausted Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds.
This perk is by far the least balanced of all the Exhaustion perks. The main problem is how much distance this perk can afford you over the average killer. It's practically a guaranteed escape against more than half the killer cast if you have competent teammates, who could also be running Adrenaline.
My proposed change is to either reduce the speed boost you are granted, make it so adrenaline will simply remove exhaustion instead of outright ignoring in when triggered, or make it so that it will only heal you if you are downed.
Balanced Landing
Your agility is incomparable.
Cat-like reflexes reduce your stagger duration from falls by 75 %.
Upon landing, start sprinting at 150 % of your normal running speed for a maximum of 3 seconds if not exhausted.
Causes the Exhausted Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds.
This perk is very useful, even while exhausted. That is a problem. Due to current map design, this perk can be downright game-breaking at certain locations. HaddonfunField being the worst offender.
My proposed change is to either add a cooldown to the stagger reduction, something short like Quick And Quiet, or simply reduce the duration of the speed boost you are granted if it is going to provide so much utility. Or just fix the damn maps. Seriously this has been a problem since day 1 BHVR come on get your ♥♥♥♥ together
Lithe
After performing a rushed vault, break into a sprint at 150 % of your normal running speed for a maximum of 3 seconds.
Causes the Exhausted Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds.
In Lithe's previous state, you needed to be in a chase to be able to use it. In that state I had no problem with this perk, since even though you can gain an insane amount of distance when you combine a window with a speed boost, the killer still had a chance to gain bloodlust to counteract the gap.
However many survivors complained about how finicky this system was, which was a legitimate complaint. So BHVR fixed it for them.
This made the perk far too powerful in my opinion, but I also feel that this change was needed, so my suggestion would be to simply reduce the duration of the speed boost you are granted since with the new system you can guarantee your safety while triggering it.
You may notice that I am not including Head On Apply Directly To The Forehead on this list. That is because I see no problems with it. It's a very situational perk, and it makes for some fun moments. I hope they keep it exactly as it is, minus the various bugs of course.
Now it's your turn to type something! Agree? Disagree? Have your own suggestions? Feel free to post them below! That's what the discussions are for, to discuss. Hopefully I'll see you in the fog.😀
Comments
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Really, I'd rather a talisman system or something, where downing a survivor makes them drop their "Talisman" and they have to go back and find it, which is like a 10 second channel. A survivor version of Hexes i guess.
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I just think killers should get balanced because certain ones need buffed while others need nerfed I believe sprint burst is one of the weakest exhaustion perks to be quite honest because you have to walk around to not waste it which can waste a lot of time
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No, they are fine.
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SB - I wouldn't care if there was a 3 second timer on it. I honestly don't care for the perk as is. Think it's the weakest. It can be annoying when people use it as a last minute dodge, though.
Adrenaline - Most people use it for the insta-heal. I think people would be more up to giving up the speed boost than the heal (I think so, at least).
BL - I believe they had it that way before and it didn't work all of the time, though it having two affects does make it quite strong. I don't think it's strong enough for a nerf, though. You have to be by something to jump off of and a lot of maps have large flat areas. I'd be up for fixing the maps that have a lot of them, though, and fixing some of the loops, though.
All of the sprint perks have the same times. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) their length can be matched to the sprint you get when hit.
@AetherBytes A talisman system would be cool for survivors.
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Adrenaline is the best survivor perk in the game ,but that doesnt make it OP.
I do not think exhaustion perks are a must-have ,but they do provide a super big advantage.
I think Lithe and Adrenaline are fine.
DH and BL have an insane ability to extend loops.
SB is good to forgive your positioning,but its not good in chases (Unless you 99%).
I think the only OP exhaustion perks are DH and BL,the others are fine,Imo.
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They're fine, you just aren't.
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Fine i guess you are low rank, do you know what BL does in haddonfield. DH in crotus prenn asylum, Adrenaline activating for 5s while doors only take 20s to open. I guess they're fine.
Lithe and SB are fair game i got nothing to say about them.
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You forgot Dead Hard, but in all realism a good survivor can loop without these perks so what your doing is hurting people new to the game with a slight annoyance for a killer because it extends a chase usually at the start of the chase too. Reducing the time these take effect is cool and all, but to balance that the boost of speed will be added making it more likely they gain more ground then before.
All in all the ability to close a chase comes down to you yes there are variables to it as well.
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Stop complaining salty killer main. Tell your rank 20 friends to GIT GUD at the game.
If you see a survivor with sprint burst consider yourself lucky, because it's terrible and it might feel like you're a bad killer because you miss one swing but in actuality sprint burst only promotes bad survivor play and rarely actually increases your chase time due to the time you waste walking around trying to conserve it. Only usefulness is when you get unhooked, It hinders a killer from tunneling you. Only rank 17 immerse bush claudette use this perk. If this is an issue for you then I see the major problem here already.
Head on isnt just bad but also broken.
Dead hard isnt just broken and doesnt work half the time, but also easily counter able by just waiting. 5 seconds. And at it's best it only gets you 1 extra loop.
Lithe is incredibly fair. If a survivor is avoiding windows to not use it then consider yourself legitimately played.
Adrenaline isnt an exhaustion perk. 1 perk slot dedicated to 1 moment in the game which may not even come if you're a good enough killer. And you have noed....... which gives you natural bloodlust, on top of regular bloodlust to pamper you really bad 6.0 mps killer. Nurse can start the game with the doors powered and noed and still easily get a 4k. As long as you have noed dont you dare try to ######### that we have a reward for getting tunneled for 5 gens straight and surviving. an entire perk slot for a one time use heal that isnt even used in your control half the time. Without it, tunneling is just further promoted, severely taking away from the integrity of the game. Sorry but just claiming we cant just say the word noed with dots after it to explain why adrenaline is fair is just an awful premeditated defense. I'd only agree that 5seconds of speed is too much. 2 would be fine for me.
Balanced is the only overpowered perk. But killers have no momentum loss when falling from a high place so unless it's their first fall, you shouldnt be losing distance. When a survivor doesnt have balanced, it's just a free hit for the killer which is bullshit for a survivor without balanced tbh. All survivors should have reduced fall stun duration all the time. Or else it's a literal crutch on most maps like the game, haddonfield, corn maps the red cranes arent available without balanced. Any Macmillan with a building. Red forest hills, any hills. The only reason I'd even agree its overpowered is because I literally think its crucial for every survivor. It's just that much better than the other options. Its a perk that literally opens up areas of the map for you to utilize, where without it you would rather avoid those areas. And theres A LOT of areas. Its a must use for any survivor imo and for that reason its overpowered. Reduce fall stun by 50% base kit for survivors rather than 75% reduction attached to this perk, and this perk now becomes fair. Either that or an an entirely new perk that just reduces fall stun by 75% and thats it. Id still use it every game.
But all in all you just sound like someone that doesnt play survivor enough and expects people to just lie down and die for you since you chose to play killer. Theres like 2 mechanics in the game without exhaustion perks. Get better at the game. No ones nerfing exhaustion so you can be spoon fed kills.
Post edited by MySpaceBarsBroken on9 -
If you want an actual discussion on overpowered survivor perks, make a thread about object of obsession.
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im sorry but just no
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The last we need is nerfing exhaustion perks even more.
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Considering I main both... I feel it's really funny you want Sb nerfed considering it's the worst survivor exhaustion perk. You also mention using bloodlust to "catch up". The general consensus from high rank killers and survivors is that we all want blood lust to not exist.
Survivors and killers are allowed to have powerful game changing perks. Exhaustion perks already got a solid nerf that made them far more fair.
If your struggling to counter exhaustion perks here's a quick few tips to help with each of them.
SB - If someone's walking away from you despite having clearly seen you, wait for the sprint burst, wait for them to use it and chase them to the loop. Don't lunge as they'll gain even more distance and you won't hit them.
Dead hard - if you suspect a survivor has dead hard, ie there charecters head is looking behind them, wait it out and hit them don't lunge you will miss. It is incredibly hard to dead hard a m1 tap however.
Balanced landing - try to lunge and hit them if your close enough before they hit the ground a la assassin's Creed style. If they hit the ground or have left the ledge before you they will gain the distance. Just chase them and know they won't have a dead hard.
Adrenaline - if you down them, and then they stand back up or you suspect they will have adrenaline (ie there a Meg or otherwise) wait. Don't let them get the adrenaline off, wait for the gen to pop and hit them if they pop back up. If they get adrenaline on your shoulder/hook you can't counter that but their team earned it by doing the objective. Noes also counters it somewhat lel, and forcing them to loop in an area that adrenaline won't help them in if you suspect gens will pop soon are both useful. Otherwise just don't chase them and go pressure gens.
Head on - do a hit at the locker if you suspect it. Or just bait it and walk out of the radius, either way they will waste it. If you predict right you can actually get a hit off when the use it just before the stun hits. Made someone DC doing this.
Lithe - just chase them tbh simple as that, just watch out for the dance with me/quick and quiet combo
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if anything exhaustion addons need a nerf.
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Imagine wanting all exhaustion perks to be nerfed. There's not much I can say that hasn't already been said through scrolling through comments, but I do hope the best for you, and maybe someday you will not try to blame the game for trying to aid the opposing side of you.
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I play as the killer and survivor. I actually think survivors can stand to be a bit stronger perk wise, or even have actual abilities like killers do depending on what they are. But if they went that route they would likely need to add more objectives or just more gens. With the perks listed I would let sleeping dogs lie as they say, I never have any problems. The fact they get exhausted after using them is balanced enough.
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Imagine complaining about exhaustion perks after the exhaustion nerf.
All exhaustion perks are completely fine. Some killers can even nullify exhaustion perks due to their speed and/or ability.
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I don't think exhaustion perks or any of the second chance perks are overpowered singularly. Combined on every single survivor though? That's an issue. Chase extenders with how the maps currently stand are pretty powerful.
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All of these perks are fine. With the exception of BL on certain maps. otherwise they don't need nerfed lol.
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Yeah, Clown and doctor is kinda garbage. Getting a survivor exhausted with them addons takes no skill and is also hurting dead hard users more than other exhaustion perks. Huntress is kinda fair, but strong tho
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hell.no.
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The only thing I'd do with exhaustion perks is not allowing BL to reduce stagger duration while exhausted. It should be one-time per chase as all the others do
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Okay here's what I think, my personal opinion okay. I think that Sprint burst should have a more efficent way like this,
Sprint burst
Increased running speed by 115%/120%/125% of moment speed.
Running in a long distance for more then 15/10/5.2 seconds causes the survivor to be in exhaustion for 35 seconds.
Balance landing
Landing reflexes are 100% when landing from a 1.5 second drop. Gives a small boost of speed 135% for 2.5 seconds.
Causes the survivor to be Hindered for 35 seconds, go a second time falling will make the survivor injured from the second fall.
Adrenaline (two different parts all separate)
1) When the getting off a hook you'll be healed back and be given a small speed boost of 145% speed for 4 seconds.
2) When a generators is done while in chase you'll be given a 135% speed boost for ONLY 3.5 seconds. When all generators are done, you'll be in the healthy state and given a speed boost of 150%.
Lithe
Increased vaulting Pallets and Windows by 8%/10%/12% faster while in/not in chase.
In chase will give a boost of 125% moment speed for 2 seconds.
All of them them exhaustion for up to 45/40/35 seconds. Recovering your breath is when your not moving or when your walking.
How do you think? Should these be balanced fairly or now?
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I think all the perks are fine except adrenaline. I suggest keeping the same healing ability but reduce the speed to 50%/60%/70% for 5 seconds, and you stay exhausted forever once activated. I think this would be fair and allow only a small second chance that could only be used by smart players. That way it's more skill based to get use of it.
You could also make it to where it's an obsession perk and it stays honlw it is if your the obsession, and if not then you only get the speed boost and no regen.
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Okay I forgot dead hard and Head On so I'm gonna say this.
Head On
When entering a locker 50%/75%/100% of entering of the locker makes no noise when slowly getting in. When the killer is 5 meters of the locker they can be stunned up to 4 seconds.
Doesnt give exhaustion.
Dead Hard
Activating the perk will give you a small boost of avoiding damage. You'll be giving ONLY 3 tokens and be used anytime. Gaining a token is by getting protection hits only.
Exhausted after all tokens are used.
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50/60/70% ? So you want survivors to be slower than normal running speed (100%) while getting adrenaline? 🤔
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I think he made a mistake about that part
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I just read the the whole forum here and got one thing to say to the Survivor players complaining about NOED.
That Hex is hot garbage in high-ranks. It can be so easily countered by simply looking for the totem. If you don't cleanse totems from the get-go, or have a teammate doing it, your team has it coming for a letting a bad killer use it. XD (No offense meant.)
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Holy ######### now killers want to nerf exhaustion perks? Holy kek are we reaching meme teir complaints just remove the sprint button
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I'm fine with an Adrenaline nerf.
But Noed needs to be gutted in response.
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Posts like this just make killer mains look so bad. People just need to stop complaining and calling for nerfs every five seconds, it creates a very large "boy who cried wolf" mentality in the minds of the developers, and if they do listen it likely makes the game worse in the long run.
I say this as a killer main myself, the only map I've hated any exhaustion perk on is the aforementioned Haddonfield-BL. Sprint Burst forces them to walk if they wish to conserve it, BL requires them to know where to activate it adding to the list of safe spots they have to remember, Lithe doesn't guarantee safety as you can be hit or grabbed during the process of activation, Dead Hard arguably has the highest skillcap out of any of them, and if Adrenaline activates it probably means you weren't going to get that 4k anyways.
The exhaustion timer alone balances the perks out and that's not considering they require proper use to get the most out of them or that counterplay exists.
Please stop unnecessarily complaining.
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@MassiveToggaf unfortunately it will never be enough for some people. They aren't happy until perks are rendered useless. Just look at the latest topic on MoM activating 2 out of 50 games. People are legitimately saying that's a good thing. They don't want balance.
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@brokedownpalace it's not even specifically tied to this game. I've played games before where the devs cave to people calling for nerfs that leads to an overall bad experience.
I recommend anyone who plays this game and cares about the balance and fun factor to watch this video, even if it doesn't specifically pertain to our game.
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I love this idea, this should have been in the game from the start. Great thinking.
Also, I don’t think exhaustion perks should be nerfed, never.
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The only thing that needs to be nerfed is map design.
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Adrenaline does NOT need a nerf PERIOD, as you are left with one less perk for most of the game. In fact, that's why it's powerful. In exchange for one less perk for most of the trial, you score a big boost during the Endgame.
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I like sprint burst because I get to laugh at my friend when he gets hit shortly after claiming he is too fast for the killer. I would only nerf adrenaline. Get rid of healing from a dying state.
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The thing about these suggestions is its only a nerf to one side ( a big one at that), so what are you suggesting we balance on the killers side to compensate for the survivor nerf?
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I know the perfect counter to all of this...git gud
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As a fellow killer main myself I think that all exhaustion perks right now are fine. All have times where they shine but still enough disadvantages to keep them at bay. Only one that could be considered a bit too strong is adrenaline.
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