Reworked Badham Preschool: Should we disable Bloodlust on that map?
If you aren't aware, Badham Preschool got a rework that makes loops more fair, and specific tiles got updates such as an extra entrance on Badham Preschool itself.
With that in mind, this map is now, compared to other maps, completely balanced. Since Bloodlust is a mechanic that compensates the killer for bad map RNG, it would be fair to remove bloodlust for Badham Preschool since it's now considered a balanced map. Although this is just my opinion, if you have counter points, I'd love to hear them. :)
What are y'all's thoughts about this suggestion?
Comments
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terrible, sorry to disagree so strongly but your negating a perk slot entirely based on a map. just because a maps strongly synergises with a perk doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed, i mean what if we stopped ruin from spawning on the grim pantry? or pop goes the weasel from being used in the game/lerys as the gens are so close together? or an even better example disabling distressing on lery's/the game as it makes terror radius's "too big"? or for a survivor sided example it would be like disabling lithe on lerys, or head on within the basement.
badham is already being reworked and from the ptb seems to be amazing, theres like 3-4 possible bl spots off the top of my head now? i know the house is still there and you can leap down to the basement off the preschool. and there's also the basement which is on every map. honestly bl isn't as bad as it once was on that map.
If the perk synergies too strongly with the map, adjust the map not disable the perk. make blockers which halt the sprint burst and make it easier to catch up, or take out excessive leaps etc. haddonfield is an example of something that needs a rework against specifically the 4bl squads who will use every window loop and the stun reduction to gain too much distance and time. and that could be adjusted by limiting higher story window loops, and making them force the player into open areas with limited pallets etc, or even better leave window loops with open doors for the killer to chase through so they can more easily chase survivors and aren't "cucked" per say by a window vault.
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I think he meant Bloodlust @Maelstrom10 😅
Is that what you meant by BL @NMCKE ?
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BL = bloodlust
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Why in the world would you EVER shorten blood lust as BL? knowing the forums. a person literally made an essay thinking you meant Balanced Landing, which EVERYONE here abbreviates it as BL. you just confused a majority of readers until you specified it meant Blood Lust. you better change it now or I'm calling my mom on you.I'm on console, so I can't play the PTB. so I don't really know.
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Hmm I like this simply because
anyone who relies on bloodlust on maps that are balanced and fine should uninstall because bloodlust is the stupidest mechanic and the devs call it a band-aid fix to their map design problems it is one of the worst designed things in the game and I see so many bad killers get carried in chases by it because my team cannot do gensit isn't really needed if the maps are fixed so at that point it's just a mechanic that rewards the killer for playing badly.9 -
Yes, Bloodlust, I'll update the thread to reflect that.
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Bloodlust is currently still connected with Beast of Prey and even though it's not necessary on that map, it would be kinda inconsistent, if we wouldn't have it on all maps. New players might even think the map is bugged somehow.
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They should change the perk description to match how long it takes to activate BL I.
After
bloodlust I is activated, your red stain will disappear.After being in a chase for 15 seconds, your red stain will disappear.
They can further explain in the developer notes that BL will be disabled on reworked maps.
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If you aren't aware, Badham Preschool got a rework that makes loops more fair, and specific tiles got updates such as an extra entrance on Badham Preschool itself.
With that in mind, this map is now, compared to other maps, completely balanced. Since Bloodlust is a mechanic that compensates the killer for bad map RNG, it would be fair to remove bloodlust for Badham Preschool since it's now considered a balanced map. Although this is just my opinion, if you have counter points, I'd love to hear them. :)
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No because it'll probably end up becoming bugged to where more maps than just Badham are affected. Why would this happen? Because it's DbD.
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This could happen, but I doubt the developers would intentionally do this. Seeing how fast the Ghostface hot fixes came out, I think the same would happen if BL got bugged on several different maps.
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Well writing all that just because of a mistake. Happens to the best of us.
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I agree it should be removed if the map is balanced , only boosted killers rely on bloodlust because they dont know how to properly run tiles then come here to cry "survivor OP" and spew out ridiculous nerf ideas like starting someone on the hook from the beginning
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There's no reason to disable a feature on some maps and keep it active on others. Considering how much of a spaghetti filled stew of code Behavior has used for their game, something as (should be) easy like disabling something for particular maps could ######### ######### up.
Bloodlust can go away when all the maps have been fixed.
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I think I'd want to see this tested in PTB before being actually implemented. Also, there would need to be a clear indication in-game that Bloodlust is disabled on that map so that people don't think the map is simply bugged.
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They can PTB test it, I'm just curious about the community's thoughts overall since Bloodlust is a band-aid on bad map design.
@Blueberry can explain this more better than I can, but you should understand that Bloodlust is only meant for very bad maps that only favor the survivor.
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I think all killers should have 115% and remove bloodlust from the map. Keep things consistent. Although, I generally agree if map rng wasn't trash and make things like triple jungle gyms next to each-other I would go for no Blood Lust. That or a decent nerf to it.
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I generally agree with this, although making it a thing on some maps and not others isnt really plausible. Its a tall order, but once they do the pallet tweek to the rest of the maps, I could definitely get on board with this. Currently, most killer powers use up bloodlust. If you shock with doc, bloodlust is gone. Throw a bottle with clown...bloodlust is gone. You have to REALLY be wantin to force that m1 hit and abandon what your killer does. With these shortened loops, There really shouldn't be a reason to NOT throw the bottle.
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GODAMMIT... WELLL ALROGHTY THEN
But yeah blood lust as a mechanic should go at some point. I mean there are some outlier situations I feel it's useful but shouldn't need to exist ie a hag trying to chase the final person before hatch with no traps down sort of thing but like yeah blood lust is deffinately a mechanic that should be disabled globally (eventually)
@NMCKE terribly sorry for my misinterpretation though I do appreciate you touching up your post and making it more clear to people like me 😅
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No until all maps are balanced like preschool and all killers speed are 115% speed including future killers only then can they remove bloodlust.
Furthermore i doubt the devs spaghetti code would be able to disable bloodlust from certain maps since that can't even disable perks that are broken and being abused like wakeup and sprint burst
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That is true, but if the map is really fixed then bloodlust shouldn't be activating in the first place.
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what is this revisionist nonsense? killers can activate bloodlust whenever they want, not just when it's necessary. you can't force a killer to break a pallet even if it's the intelligent thing to do - they can just run around it until they get BL3 and remove any and all skill from both sides. efficient? no. braindead? yes
the reason this is an issue on the reworked badham map is that most pallets were made to be less safe, which translates to more easily abused with bloodlust (instead of needing bloodlust 3 to guarantee a hit, bloodlust 1 can be sufficient, and that can be gained beginning with the initial chase so you don't even get 15 seconds at the pallet before it activates)
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i actually agree with this; even with BL in the game, balanced landing's passive effect is absurd
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"what is this revisionist nonsense?"
re·vi·sion·ist
noun: revisionist; plural noun: revisionists
- 1.
- a supporter of a policy of revision or modification."the revisionists who sought to replace it were long denied"
- a person with a revised attitude to a previously accepted situation or point of view."revisionists have argued that the battle was crucial"
Do you know what that even means? I haven't advocated for a single change on this post at all.
"killers can activate bloodlust whenever they want, not just when it's necessary."
Not unless he's just dumb or intentionally throwing.
We are assuming a game that the killer is actually trying to win, common now.
"the reason this is an issue on the reworked badham map is that most pallets were made to be less safe, which translates to more easily abused with bloodlust"
If he's actually doing this then he's wasted enough time that he's thrown the game already. That makes this argument quite ridiculous.
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This is a bad idea.
Simply because whenever a killer breaks a pallet, they lose Bloodlust.
Safe or Unsafe, if they break it, they lose that speed.
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it was a reference to historical revisionism
you're basically re-writing the history of dead by daylight by saying that bloodlust is only used when it's needed, and that killers throw the game by using it
bloodlusting is done to substitute mindgaming or breaking a pallet
i realize that all you play is spirit and you have no need for bloodlust because you have another substitute for mindgames, but you don't need to throw the game to bloodlust; the timer for bloodlust starts when the chase begins, it doesn't start when you get to or throw a pallet. this means a killer doesn't need to waste much time getting bloodlust 1, which is enough to get easy hits on unsafe pallets
moreover, i pointed out in my post that getting bloodlust at pallets isn't efficient, but this doesn't mean it doesn't remove skill or using your brain from gameplay, which is still bad. i don't care if the killer is throwing the game; if my ability to outplay a killer is being removed by a wheelchair mechanic, there's a problem. again, i'm talking to a spirit main, so this probably doesn't have the sort of impact on you that it should, but at least try to understand why your statement that "bloodlust shouldn't be activating on maps where it's not needed" is dumb, because bloodlust automatically activates in a chase that lasts for at least 15 seconds, beginning from the second the chase starts. think before you post please
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Now that you brought it up why is it unlimited time for the nerf hammer
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That's not the point through, if Bloodlust doesn't dissipate after breaking a pallet, then the only thing left to stop Bloodlust is attacking. This means you could build up BL3 just because the survivor is looping you very well, and could lead to no mind games because BL3 makes safe loops into unsafe loops.
That's not the point of Bloodlust.
Post edited by NMCKE on0 -
to be fair the game has like 2 vaults and nobody uses them because they r shiet so like... kinda
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I think it's certainly something that could be done and quite possibly should. I'd be down for it personally.
My only reservation is if they are capable of implementing it without breaking other maps in the process.
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I agree, but even if they screw up the coding, we could expect an immediate hotfix just like with Ghostface.
Overall, besides the "The Devs might screw everything up", I don't see why we shouldn't do this. I see other forum users saying we should wait until all maps are reworked, but that will take forever, and survivors will have little chase potential if they have to deal with reworked maps with BL.
Btw, BL in this thread = Bloodlust.0 -
the whole point is that you don't need to break unsafe pallets, you can mindgame them
with bloodlust in the game, the need to mindgame them is removed
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Bloodlust doesn't exist for the reason you think it does. The mechanic of bloodlusts exists for dealing with the fact that every map variation features places where a survivor can manipulate the chase to keep the killer at a set distance away. Badham still has the two story house that can be abused with Balanced Landing. It's not to deal with RNG it is to make sure there is a finite amount of times a survivor can safely manipulate the distance they have on a killer in a chase.
If you think Badham's new variations cound at 'completely balanced' then you've still got no clue what that looks like. We've still got the old variation of the map going to be in rotation and even the new variations are still works in progress.
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Personally, I rarely see bloodlust making that much of an impact. I think the best solution would be to get rid of it and compensate by making killer hitboxes the same size as survivor hitboxes. That would solve a crapload more problems than just excessive pallet looping, too. The killer blocking basement stairs problem would have been eliminated with this along with a number of others.
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If I remember correctly, Badham Preschool doesn't have 2 story buildings like Haddonfield. They don't have a porch for each story of the building, which means either the survivor has to vault or stay on the second floor (inside). If there was a porch on the second floor where the survivor could stay at after the vault, then I would agree because that removes the mind game potential.
Furthermore, they are sacrificing a perk for more chase potential, so I think that's fine in my book. If the problem is the perk itself, then we should be looking at perk, not the map itself, ideally.
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I see your reasoning, but I'd like to wait to see the survival ratio for these maps before implementing such a change.
While BL was implemented as a counterbalance to infinites, I don't think removal of infinites/map balance is enough justification for its removal.
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Looping doesn't really need to be in a conversation about Bloodlust. Bloodlust was there to fight bad RNG. Looping was not an intended mechanic at all, meaning bloodlust was put into the game without thought to looping.
If you don't wanna deal with bloodlust, stun the killer with the pallet. If the pallet is unsafe, then don't try to loop it. Stun the killer with it and move on. Problem solved.
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most killers who don't just brainlessly walk through pallets will recognize an unsafe pallet and walk around it. your post requires that the killer actually walk through the pallet instead of running around it to gain speed, which is something many won't do
i saw similar arguments for examples of "counterplay" to legion (just stun them out of frenzy!) ignoring that killers have to actually let you stun them
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I'll roughly say the survival percent will roughly drop by 5% to 10% on this map if Bloodlust is still activated.
How do I know? I'm just taking an educated guess because loops won't be as strong, and killers can Bloodlust through them, taking away any mind game potential survivors have.
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Holy ######### you guys need to stop abbreviating Blood Lust as BL, all i think is Boys Love unless you guys are into that stuff but yeah please.
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The acronym BL is most commonly known as that outside of DBD.
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I think the developers can do that, and even if they mess it up, seeing how fast they did the Ghostface hotfix, they can immediately fix the problems! :)
Btw, I really wanna bring this topic back up because Bloodlust shouldn't activate on Badham Preschool, it's complete overkill in my opinion. :(
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Maybe @Peanits may be able to shed some light on how easy it would be.
It all depends if bloodlust is a one for all system where they would need to adjust the code for the map and/or bloodlust or if it's as easy as them going into the map and for it has a simple 0 or 1, true or false line already in it to deactivate it 😉.
I do agree though having played it a good few times bloodlust is no longer needed on it.
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