there should be a comeback mechanic for survivors after early downs/dcs
this should scale with the number of generators left to do, at this point it happens way too often that someone gets killed early maybe with 5 or 4 gens left and that completely kills the momentum of the game and the killer almost always snowballs and wins the game easily, we have mechanics like bloodlust to combat infinite looping so that eventually the killer can catch the survivor and it doesnt take as long as it would without, so a comeback mechanic for the survivors should be in place, my idea would be something like say you're 3 and you still have 5 gens left well then the generators should be i dont know 25% faster? and this scales with the amount of generators left, i didnt put any time thinking about a proper number/comeback system so the example shouldnt be taken too serious, also im not saying a comeback mechanic that completely makes it in favor of the survivor but just something so that survivors have a slight chance.
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Bloodlust does not do that.
Survivors already have plentiful 'rubber-banding' options and 2nd-chances.
Where is your counter-factual suggestion for killers where we get an equivalent way of making a comback when 3 generators pop 90 seconds after the match begins?
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I think a system like this (assuming it is a good idea to implement at all) would have to work both ways where Survivors get a bonus to gens if they get screwed early game while they get some sort of penalty if they are able to completely gen rush without the Killer being able to accomplish much, if at all. Not saying that it should be implemented at all, but it makes sense that a system like this needs to be give and take.
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bloodlust makes chases why easier than they were when it wasn't in place, it's a fact, there shouldnt be a discussion about this, you get movement speed up to 2 levels after chasing a survivor for 15 seconds.
such as? care to list what survivors have once they get an early kill with 5 generators up? are you going to tell me now that after an early kill most survivors are still going to do 5 generators and escape? please.
the problem with that is that you can stop that while we cannot, if someone dcs it is instant, there is nothing we can do about it, if someone purposely dies on his second hook because he is tilted again, we can't do anything to prevent that, also why are you so against a comeback mechanic? it's only fair that after an early kill with a set amount of gens up (as i specified the comeback mechanic should scale with the amount of generators up) survivors get a second chance, i do not have the stats but by personal experience 99% of the times the killer gets an extremely early kill it's just game over for the survivors, this obviously doesnt happen as often at higher ranks but that really doesn't matter because it wouldn't involve them anyways.
also genrushing is a completely different argument, i see you're someone that thinks that genrushing is a problem maybe? that's what i gather which is ok, everyone is entitled to their opinion but by bringing that into this you're kind of drifting away of the main topic.
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I didn't say Bloodlust doesn't make chases easier, I don't know why you're responding as if that is what I said. The first thing you mentioned after bringing up Bloodlust was 'infinite looping', which I'm not entirely sure from the words that followed that you understood what is meant by 'infinite looping'.
Bloodlust was introduced to deal with pallet-looping, but the devs didn't even know what pallet-looping was. It should never have been introduced. It makes chases awful for newer survivor players, but does nothing against actual looping; especially actual infinite loops.
Also please don't give me opinions I don't have. I am not against a comeback mechanic, but pointing out that they already exist and that you showed no concern for how your suggestion would affect killers or included any equivalent mechanic for them. Most of your post does this, gives me views I don't have an haven't expressed, so I'm not going to straighten out each instance of it, because there's no way of knowing you won't infer false-beliefs from that too.
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bloodlust does help with looping maybe not so much with excessively safe loops but you're not supposed to stay on 1 survivor for that and as there are safe spots for survivors there are also dangerous spots for survivors to be, still you saying that "pallet looping should have never been introduced" is 100% just you venting your frustration in the wrong thread, i honestly do not care if you feel that way it's completely your opinion which i am not going to get into a debate about.
i asked you in my response to you to list which come back mechanics survivors have in this scenario and you didn't list any so what am i supposed to believe here? i understood that you were saying that killers should equally have something if survivors do get that comeback mechanic but i did reply what i think about it and i am discussing about a comeback mechanic for survivors so you saying that even killers should have one is something for another thread, in this thread i am talking about a comeback mechanic for survivors anything else is not relevant, also i did write a maybe with a question mark after i kind of described what sort of impression you gave me, dont take it to heart.
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"i did reply what i think about it and i am discussing about a comeback mechanic for survivors so you saying that even killers should have one is something for another thread, in this thread i am talking about a comeback mechanic for survivors anything else is not relevant"
The thing is that such a mechanic affects both sides even if it is intended for one side, so IMO the possibility of such a system being made for both sides is still relevant to this discussion and should be discussed.
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i do not agree, while your opinion is valid and you might want to discuss that you're still going offtopic, the title is clear, that is the main focus, the replies i have gotten have got nothing to do with what i was trying to discuss, i actually hoped for someone to take the topic into consideration and agree/disagree/come up with some solution, i mean yeah i understand that you as or as not a killer player might feel in some cases you should have a comeback mechanic if "...." happens, but really this thread isnt about comeback mechanics in general, it's about a comeback mechanic in a specific situation where 99% of the times survivors just hopelessly lose without a saying, for example say you get genrushed, say all the stars are aligning against you as a killer and you're just having a terrible game, sometimes, is it that unusual that sometimes you still manage to get some points/get a few kills? i'm just saying, it's not completely hopeless as it is for survivors after an early kill which is completely game over, also i'll repeat myself, there is nothing that can be done for that to be prevented while as killers you still have assets, 2 examples are ruin which slow down a little the gen rushing and for example non subpar killers like nurse and spirit that can quickly check generators, still i am not trying to discuss this.
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That's not really fair, though, because the idea of extending it both ways factors into my opinion of the idea as you have suggested.
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This is the perfect example on how Survivor players think on an individual basis, and not as a team (as intended).
If you play survivor, you have to understand you are playing as part of a TEAM. If someone on the team does poorly, or DCs, they will screw up everyone else. This is why most people prefer SWF, because you eliminate the possibility of random people trolling or throwing the game on purpose.
This is also where all the problems with balance stem from. The survivors are being balanced with the killers on a ONE ON ONE basis, which means if all 4 survivors are competent the killer will get destroyed.
Survivors should be granted boons for keeping each other alive and helping one another, not the opposite.
If you don't want others impacting the outcome of your game, play killer. Or another game, I heard Civ 5 is pretty good.
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how so? how am i not thinking as a team, i am not talking about a drastic comeback system that does as much job as a whole player would i'm talking about a very specific occurrence that often happens which we have no power over.
yeah, survivors should and ARE granted boons for keeping eachother alive by keeping them alive, what i am talking about is when someone insta dcs after getting downed, what are survivors supposed to do? just lose? is it that much of a problem if they'd get faster progression? i mean, you make a whole argument about how this is an example on how "survivor players think on an individual basis" but with this particular occurence the only player which is thinking on an individual basis is the one leaving, not the team which will suffer from his egotistical actions.
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Which is why we need a much harsher punishmentfor DCs (which will come soon with Dedicated Servers). Griefing, sandbagging and throwing the game is also bannable.
If it is a legit DC where the player lost the connection accidentally, yeah it sucks but just move on to another game. It's like getting a bad map as killer, sometimes you just have to hold the L and move on.
And about 25% progression on gens, that is ludicrously big. I wouldn't even mess with gen times at all.
Your "comeback" pitty mechanic comes in the form of the hatch. Now it will spawn no matter how many gens have been completed.
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good lord, it would really be a shame if i didnt specify that the example wasn't to be taken seriously would it? "i didnt put any time thinking about a proper number/comeback system so the example shouldnt be taken too serious", moving on.
why exactly survivors should "just take the L and move on" when you can prevent it, i am not talking again i feel like i am repeating my self way too often and if anyone reads this please take a moment to read every single reply before replying to me but im pretty sure this is the second or third time i say that im not talking about a huge comeback system i am not talking about something that is as worth as the player who just left, i am just talking about something that gives a slither of hope to the rest of the team, the hatch is not a proper argument, it doesn't make you pip, and with 3 players you'd need 4 generators repared, if you have 5 left like in the example i am talking about in this thread, well good luck with that, also the hatch opens when only 1 player is left so you'd have to bring a purple key and we all know how often those are brought (for a good reason).
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You are suggesting that evedyone gets a free toolbox increase if someone dies/dcs early I disagree since it could be abused. IE survuvors almost complete 1 or 2 gens coop then one can dc and give the other 3 survivors a permanent bonus to repair speed. Regardless if it works inverse to the number of gens left it still allows them to crank oht gens faster than they normally should. It can be used to boost someone to a higher rank, bully the killer with worse "gen rushing" not to mention perks that make chases harder or DS and blrrowed time which is a good deterrent for tunneling is a free escape during egc.
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" im not talking about a huge comeback system i am not talking about something that is as worth as the player who just left, i am just talking about something that gives a slither of hope to the rest of the team"
literally the post above.
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No. Evening out any possible advantage the killer may have gained early in the match is not the way to balance this game.
That would just turn swf teams unbeatable.
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No what should happen if the killer downs players to quickly and easily is they should be ranked away from them as they are obviously the better player. The PIP system and matchmaking are the issue here and that is what needs fixed.
I dont want the devs to reward less skilled players as it will also buff the best survivor players.
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when did i ever talk about evening? at this point im convinced half of you are just taking the piss
i agree with your stance on the pip system, not so much on the first part of your argument because i don't believe that to always be the case.
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If one team plays bad, why should there be a comeback mechanic? If you play bad, you lose. That's how games work in general, not only DbD.
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Well, if you don't want to talk about equivalent mechanics in place for killer too, you're just getting "no" as a response.
Actually, neither of those mechanics have a place in this game.
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Honestly I figured giving everyone 20k bp for each DC would help as most people (not all) DC to screw someone killer or survivor over and most don't want them to get bp
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In before 20k is too high...
It has to be high or else it won't matter
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So... Just DC to give my buds some sick nasty BP when I'm about to die or at the start if we want to get this bread faster?
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"i am not talking again i feel like i am repeating my self way too often and if anyone reads this please take a moment to read every single reply before replying to me"
Would be a lot easier if you didn't type in a huge wall of text devoid of capital letters, punctuation, basic grammar structure and acceptably composed sentences...
That being said, we understand what you're getting to, and we don't agree. Why is it that if people disagree with your point of view you get all worked up? Game is balanced (and I use the word "balanced" lightly) on a 4v1. If it ends in a 3v1 because of any reason, it is going to tip on the killers favor.
Besides, what is "too early"? How do you measure or decide on those metrics? Is it 1 minute? Is it 2? What if I get a very early kill as killer, should the survivors get a gen repair buff because I played too well?
While we're at it, make Hex totems completely immune to cleansing for the first 2 minutes of the game. Then I might consider your suggestion.
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Ok, this is where you're calling upon 'the survivor rule-book for killers'. Who says the killer shouldn't be staying on someone at 'excessively safe loops'? The fact is those 'excessively safe loops' should not exist; this was made very clear in the beginning by the devs and if they've gone back on the principle that a survivor should never feel safe, please point out when and where.
Now, where in this thread have I said(and you are quoting me) 'pallet-looping should never have been introduced'? I do happen to think pallet-looping is game-breaking and needs removing, but I have not said as such in this thread: it has nothing to do with the point I am making. Why have you brought that up?
I'm not submitting to your request for examples because I do not believe it is sincere: it's basic knowledge about the features of the game and seeing as you've repeatedly misrepresented what I've said and you still are, I'm not about to hand you more non sequiters to chase after.
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You are suggesting a comeback mechanic and are at the same time denying and shutting down people who disagree with you and poi t out that such a thing is unbalanced. I gave several reasons to why it is a bad idea and someone else brought up that it punishes effective killers. You don't want a discussion you want people to agree with you.
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@hp150
I would bet 90% of DC are killer\solo.
Or maybe 2 man sfw I mean if 3 people DC sure the 4th gets 60k but so does the killer
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