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Am I Wrong?
I was in a match recently and received some "friendly critiquing" from another survivor after they died.
Basically the survivor wanted to inform me that it was my fault for "our team's" lack in performance.
to which I replied... "this isn't a team game".
The way I see dead by daylight is that there is "you, them, and it". You want to survive. It wants to sacrifice you. They exist.
Since it's kind of obvious that initially voice chat wasn't intended for the game it always felt odd to me that a "team" game would prevent you from organizing strategy with your teammates. Especially since F13, Evolve, and other asymmetrical versus games have had voice chat in one way or another.
So i've never really thought of DBD as a team game. Am I wrong in that thought? I mean sure you do have people that you can help and can help you, but there are also killers that are designed specifically to hinder altruistic actions. Not to mention in order to effectively work together you have to have set your character up in a very particular way hoping that everyone else has also done the same. If someone doesn't make it (or all 3) you're not punished as a survivor and instead are actually kind of rewarded for attempting to escape via hatch or at the very least you're rewarded in a sense that you're now free to exist on the map unabated for a short duration.
Yes, I realize that teamspeak, discord, xbox live chat, psn chat, etc. are all options, but they weren't included in the original design of the game. Often times people forget that when a game is designed without a feature such as voice chat there is usually a reason for that. A perfect example of a game designed without a feature is resident evil 7. Up until RE:7 the recent RE games had all been 3rd person view. So why was RE:7 first person? It's because the game was created with a desire to have the player feel immersed. There was also the desire to make the game work with the virtual reality software. The first person view makes the game scarier by restricting the view of the player and forcing the player to guess at distances rather than know. This allows for players to feel backed into a corner or to accidentally run into walls when scared. It also makes for intense moments visually when an npc gets close to your face.
I would argue that the reason why voice chat was left out was because of a few reasons, but 2 reasons that I want to focus on are :
- Immersion. By not breaking immersion of the player with loud headsets blaring music or young adolescents screaming at their teammates for not healing them it allows for the game's audio to take over and provide gameplay mechanics that would otherwise be absent or ignored.
- To give players the option to choose how they want to approach a situation. Remember - survive with friends was not an included option with the game's initial release, but instead a secondary addition that was only added because of popular demand. This further reinforces the idea that DBD is not a team game.
But I want to know how everyone else feels?
Comments
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Theoretically, you can play selfishly. You can also saw off one of your legs and go through life. The thing is it's not a smart choice, and if you do it, people will judge you for that choice.
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@Dehitay I think bond's comment is quite nice for this situation.
"We have to work as a team, I need you to survive so that I can survive!" — Dwight Fairfield
The idea of working as a team is for your own survival. You are not doing it because it is a team game. You are doing it so you better your own chances at survival. Either way the game has the ability to be cut-throat and is a fine play style. There is a reason you are 'Sacrificed' Your loss might have allowed someone else to live.
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Play how you want, but within the game's rules.
That's how much i care.
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You are entitled to play as you like, for yourself or others, but remember the golden rule, if you don't want to help anyone, don't expect help back.
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Do what you have to, but remember
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I was in a match recently and received some "friendly critiquing" from another survivor after they died.Basically the survivor wanted to inform me that it was my fault for "our team's" lack in performance.
Well to be fair, I understand his frustration but he shouldn't have worried about critiquing you. You're not the only other survivor. Regardless of your actions during the game (my assumption is you urban evaded around the map or focused more on stealth/hatch game instead of doing gens/saves) it is down to how YOU want to play.
to which I replied... "this isn't a team game".
The way I see dead by daylight is that there is "you, them, and it". You want to survive. It wants to sacrifice you. They exist.
Okay this is where I gotta say I believe you're wrong. By this games very definition it is a "AN ASYMMETRICAL MULTIPLAYER (4VS1) HORROR GAME WHERE ONE PLAYER TAKES ON THE ROLE OF THE SAVAGE KILLER, AND THE OTHER FOUR PLAYERS PLAY AS SURVIVORS, TRYING TO ESCAPE THE KILLER AND AVOID BEING CAUGHT AND KILLED."(Stolen directly from the front page of this website, caps and all)
No where in that description does it mention a "you, them and it". It also lumps the four survivors in together.
Considering the gameplay falls into 4 separate categories for survivors (boldness/avoiding or escaping killer, altruism/healing survivors OTHER than yourself/rescuing them from hooks (kinda hard to pop yourself off one of those bad boys), objective/doing gens, and survival/GTFO-ing) it's quite easy to see that one of the four pillars of survivor gameplay is entirely teambased. Three if you're REALLY altruistic (multiple survivors on one gen, body-blocking killers etc etc).
Since it's kind of obvious that initially voice chat wasn't intended for the game it always felt odd to me that a "team" game would prevent you from organizing strategy with your teammates. Especially since F13, Evolve, and other asymmetrical versus games have had voice chat in one way or another.
Well, yes, VOIP wasn't ORIGINALLY intended for the game, but do you honestly think for a second the dev's didn't realize that it was a possibility? That NONE of them discussed it? On top of that, discussing strategy, if you pay attention and have certain perks (which also encourage teamplay!) it's quite easy to work together, even without being able to communicate super effectively.
So i've never really thought of DBD as a team game. Am I wrong in that thought?
Now, I don't necessarily think you're wrong in that thought, just misguided. I'd love to know how much you've played the game, rank, etc. Playing selfishly at higher ranks almost guarantees a depip at least in my experience. But I'd argue that this game excels as a team game.
I mean sure you do have people that you can help and can help you, but there are also killers that are designed specifically to hinder altruistic actions.
Which... Sort of means that the game was built around teamplay, correct? Considering there's viable builds for killers to stop altruistic actions from occurring, but I digress.
Not to mention in order to effectively work together you have to have set your character up in a very particular way hoping that everyone else has also done the same.
Okay, first off, I can run to a hook, unhook a survivor, and heal them in a safe spot without perks. I can do it more effectively with perks, yes, but again, that is because this is a team game with viable options to play as a team. More people run we'll make it and borrowed time than I think you'd believe, because those are perks that reward teamplay and counter killers who are trying to stop teamplay. I don't know what types of games you've had but I swear you're not being punished, perhaps you've just simply had bad teammates, which goes back to my question on rank/hours etc.
If someone doesn't make it (or all 3) you're not punished as a survivor and instead are actually kind of rewarded for attempting to escape via hatch or at the very least you're rewarded in a sense that you're now free to exist on the map unabated for a short duration.
I'll say this, if you are looking at hatch like it is a reward for outlasting the other three survivors, you are in fact looking at this game wrong. Hatch is not a reward, and ESPECIALLY after the rework hatch can now be countered and shut down. As for "rewarded in a sense that you're now free to exist on the map unabated for a short duration"...
That's a pretty crap reward honestly. Surviving for another two minutes with no extra points or benefits given to me? Doesn't sound encouraging.
Also being on your own makes it hard to get altruistic points.
Yes, I realize that teamspeak, discord, xbox live chat, psn chat, etc. are all options, but they weren't included in the original design of the game. Often times people forget that when a game is designed without a feature such as voice chat there is usually a reason for that. A perfect example of a game designed without a feature is resident evil 7. Up until RE:7 the recent RE games had all been 3rd person view. So why was RE:7 first person? It's because the game was created with a desire to have the player feel immersed. There was also the desire to make the game work with the virtual reality software. The first person view makes the game scarier by restricting the view of the player and forcing the player to guess at distances rather than know. This allows for players to feel backed into a corner or to accidentally run into walls when scared. It also makes for intense moments visually when an npc gets close to your face.
Whew, okay. So. If they weren't included in the original design of the game, why can you play survive with friends? The devs didn't conveniently forget that teamspeak, discord, xbox live chat, psn chat exist. Because they do. These folks made a game. I assure you they have knowledge of VOIP. Basing your entire argument on the lack of VOIP doesn't work, as, again, one of the pillars of gameplay is altruistic actions: I.E., team actions. You can only gain those BP performing an action to HELP A TEAMMATE.
On top of that, you mention later that
Remember - survive with friends was not an included option with the game's initial release, but instead a secondary addition that was only added because of popular demand. This further reinforces the idea that DBD is not a team game.
The delightful thing about the games industry is that now games can change over time. In response to your RE:7 aside, let me bring up this simple fact.
Fortnite did not start out as a battle royale, and yet arguably it's the pinnacle of it's success.
Here's another.
World of Warcraft didn't launch with VOIP, and yet forty-man raid groups use VOIP all the time, since the very VERY launch.
Popular demand or not, the devs aren't stupid. When they added SWF, they knew VOIP was going to be used by SWF groups.
I'm sorry dude, but I think you just had a ######### game with a butt-hurt survivor.
<3 I love ya, though.
Post edited by Mifian on2 -
It depends.
If you are useless and you do not touch any gens ,but only clens totems and search in chests,then the "insults" you are receiving are probably just descriptions.
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Save yourself. Just check out the launch trailer. Claudette didnt save the hooked survivor. Let the salt flow. You'll still live to fight another day, who cares what happens to them?Worry about your bloodpoints,not theirs
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there are 4 survivors there is only one killer. The reason for this is because the killer is always going to be stronger than one survivor. Therefore if you want to survivor you want to help your team for your own survival you won't ever win by yourself you'll just hurt yourself in the long run.
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I'm so sorry for the random survivors who get you in their games.
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I agree with this.
Dead by Daylight is most certainly a team game-- but I think we've all forgotten what that actually means.
No VOIP is not reasoning enough to completely shutdown the idea of it being a team game. Instead you have to use your experience and skills to determine what other survivors are thinking, adapt to the situation and know what YOU should be doing.
For every survivor dead that is one person permenantly off of gens. This slows down the game massively. You need to work together in order to escape- you aren't doing 5 gens by yourself.
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You are allowed to play like you want. That being said, if you don't do what's good for your team, you are also decreasing your personal chances of survival.
Also, if you are neither willing to save your teammates, do gens or loop the killer, then the survivor role just isn't for you.
Another point: What benefit do you get from surviving, if your teammates who died have more bloodpoints and Emblem points?
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Team focused gameplay yes
Team game no
It's why it has the tag save others or don't.
The reason being is that the team does not have to survive for you to personally win and if someone dies and you escape do you feel guilty or just glad it wasn't you.
People saving, healing, protecting others is really only done to benefit themselves as it gives them a better chance to get out along with the pip and bloodpoints.
SWF can be seen as different as they can coordinate what is happening, what to use and when.
Overtime your mindset can change and I frequently risk myself for others but that's not due to teamplay but because I chose too as it's fun to try. That is of course as long as the killer didn't camp because if they did I'm not allowing them the chance of another possible kill and rewarding the strat.
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I remember once my favourite moment as a survivor was against a Pig before Endgame Collapse.
Gate was powered and two people were hooked with bear traps, one was dead, and I was healthy.
Instead of being the big damn hero everyone wanted me to be, I played into the Saw movie that was unfolding and quit while I was still ahead.
The game is definitely a team game, but not in a traditional sense. You work as a team sure, but it’s not that the team wins or loses (unless the killer 4k’s or 0k’s) but instead every player wins or loses separately.
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Yes and no? It's optionally a team-game.
Unless you recorded your match, no one can say whether that guy is right.
When I do notice a Killer tunneling a teammate on their last hook, I do understand their death will tremendously lower our chances of survival, so I have taken hits and distracted them at my own expense.
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I'm reading a lot of mixed opinions and views on the matter. However, I have noticed 1 trend among all the replies.
- Bloodpoints and Emblems are the final say when determining your success as a survivor. Which we all know.
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Here's the way I've always said it. Altruism kills. Do what benefits you the most. If you serve to benefit from saving a Survivior on the hook then save them. If it doesn't benefit you that they Survive (which is almost always untrue) then usually abandoning them is the smart decision.
Play for yourself, but don't forget that you can't take down the killer by yourself and you need help to do it. The quote on Bond is very accurate. "I need you to survive so I can survive"
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It is and it isn't. Much of the game has a focus for survivors to help each other, but then there is Loan Survivor, a perk that only functions if everyone else is dead. The devs made the game for you to play how you want. I think the wrong way to go about the game is the belief that you need to "win." This game has no real winners. Benedict Baker's Journal describes the killers as people forced to do the entity's bidding, and the survivors are trapped indefinitely, whether they're sacrificed or not. I've played matches where I escaped and got 7000 bp, and matches where I was sacrificed and got over 20,000. There's a reason why survivors are listed in the order of who got the most bp at the results screen.
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@wydyadoit Yes, of course. I don't care that much about the escape animation, I want bloodpoints. 😊
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There is a LOT of lost potential in the "survivor vs survivor" aspect of the game, sadly. Whole builds could be created from that, and more: new, more selfish characters and perks. Us killers would be able to take advantage of them working against each other, and as survivor, the sole objective of outliving the other three would make some exciting games.
I'm kinda sad the game took another direction with SWF and a lot of help for altruistic style. I guess the devs had no choice, it's much more popular this way. Still, I'd love a game where I'm only supposed to help others stay alive as long as they're useful to me.
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Playing with your own survival as the goal isn't necessarily wrong. However, sneaking around all game waiting for the others to die and the hatch to open is incredibly boring for everyone. To play the game as intended, you need your teammates to do at least something and sometimes you may need to help them. I often just do generators whenever I have free time but don't shy away from running the killer around and letting other survivors do progress. This way, I'm always useful to my team and myself without putting myself into too much danger. When it comes to saving people, you can usually expect randoms to do that for the large amount of blood points so staying on a generator can actually be more helpful for your team.
However, it can be fun to take a risk from time to time and completely avoiding the killer takes away a big part of the fun in my opinion. However, if playing stealthily is fun for you and you're not actively being a burden for your mates, I don't see anything wrong with that.
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@wydyadoit I think u can play however u want, u have your options to play however u want to whether you play yourself and not save Survivors from hooks and and heal them or u can play as a team player and help the other survivors. In my opinion u cam must play any way u want but it might be fun to take some risks when playing the game.
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TL;DR
However, the game is about YOUR survival, not your teams.
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Yes, you can play selfishly, but technically dead by daylight is meant to be a team game. There are certain things you rely on your teammates for and that they rely on you for. It takes teamwork to gen all of the gens done and there is a whole ass altruism category as well. So you can play the way you do now, but it's supposed to be more of a team effort.
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I think our good (job) man Mcote sort of answered this in an interview long ago. He said that the reason they didnt put voice chat in the game was bc he wanted the player to be as unsure of their own teammates as they are of the killer. You dont know who you can trust or not at any point during the trial. The relationship between survivors is one that I'd describe as "uneasy teamwork": sure well work together to survive, but dont trust me to not use you for my own benefit. (Mcote also said the only reason they even added swf was because of high demand from players but thats whatever)
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Of course it's a team game. If you are playing a game and you are put onto a side where you have other people with a common goal, that is a team game. The survivors work as a team to finish their objective. The fact that there are killers that make altruistic actions less viable for that trial does not mean that four survivors do not share a common goal, and the fact that you think it isn't a team game because there's next to no built in communication is just confusing to me.
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I wish the game had a definite win con, id v has two survivors dead is a draw, more than that is a loss and less than is a win.
However, by not helping others (idk what rank you're in) but you're gonna eventually screw the team and yourself over. Not everyone will always make out. Devs didn't plan on voice chat (big oversight) but they did plan on swf which was noted in a stream.
Also idk what rank you're in, but the less people on the map, less other targets to murder other than you. And with tracking perks and killers out there with just good movement speed, killer closing hatch is viable making the hatch popping up not a reliable option.
For altruism you don't have to set up any kind of way, just save or take aggro to move killer away from hook. No loadout us needed.
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