The Karma System- SOLUTION TO DISCONNECTS
Coming from a long time counter strike source jailbreak moderator, and an owner/ superadmin on a trouble in terrorist town server in garrysmod. TTT being the game with the most complex rules and highest difficulty in being a just moderator, due to the community developed rules with tons of loopholes.
I'm writing this quickly so dont nitpick my grammar please
Karma works like this- all players have a karma #. The karma goes up for completing objectives and finishing matches. The karma goes down if you (bad word for saying suicide??) early, or leave matches. Karma should also be minorly effected by player ratings. At the end of the game players can rate each other. Karma would stay hidden in lobby screens and such, but would be 50% of the determining factor for who you are matched against. The other 50% being actual rank. Perhaps the karma would persist regardless of switching roles to killer or survivor. So killer mains cant just be troll disconnecters when playing survivor and not be negatively affected in their killer games. Therefor only lower karma players would get matched with others of the same stature. Karma can be fixed by behaving well for a long period of time, as it would eventually go back up. Karma would start at around 1000 and max out at around 2,500. Reaching less than 250 should put a warning marker on your account, so devs can keep closer eyes on the way these players conduct themselves.
And yes it purposely goes up high on order to create some leverage since survivors arent always unjust in their reasoning for disconnecting or dying early on purpose.
Comments
-
I dunno man this seems like a whole lotta work for the devs to add and then moderate for just a bunch of people who DC. I actually think that the way this method works it could almost be harmful for users and lenghthen queue times and stretch and ruin the already imperfect matchmaking.
Imagine this, you are a good player who regularly acquires rank 1 and you get really high or really low on either side of the karma spectrum and now there is so little people to queue with at your level of play that every game you get into is either the easyist thing you'v ever done in your life or borderline impossible because you are match with people who care little for the game. Seeing as how a new player has little input on how the game should function and likely dosn't care if they died to noed at the gate or get caught out in the very beginning of the game, they likely wont care and will either leave every time because that's the way they are or never leave because thats the way they are. (hopefully this is making sense so far.) Using this logic I can see to top bits of karma being saturated with beginners just trying to learn the game and people who really care about their karma. And the low end being people who really don't care about anything so they just leave, basically making the low end of the karma spectrum unplayable due to trolls.
Also, knowing how this game has a rather toxic community I don't think letting the experience of other players remain in the hands of teammates and foe over the press of a button. As you said 50% of the karma would be made up of ratings, meaning that if you happen to be downvoted by the playerbase your game play has now being ruined because you can only match with a whole bunch of people who buttdance at pallets and don't really care about the game and insta-DC killers.
Another point that could be made is that this system would be tailored to better players, if you know how to play better then most they you will likely do more objectives and win more, making you go up in karma. I don't think that player skill should be a factor on wether or not you match with good players on systems outside or rank.
That why in the last thread I was pushing for a more automated system of cause and effect. You do something bad: have and incontinence that can be fixed by purely not doing the bad thing.
0 -
They could just add timed bans for each manual dc. 1=5 minutes, 2=10 minutes and so on. That or do something like F13th did with the salt mines. Basically if a player keeps rage quitting and dcing they get paired with others that do the same so they get no good matches.
3 -
This system is automated. Itll take work to program like any solution, the only people that would have to be hand checked by mods are the select few that have too low karma. It actually saves the devs a lot of work, and let's not try to fluff the issue here. Disconnecting is a huge issue that could destroy the life of the game if not handled properly
0 -
This is a terrble idea based on the fact that a killer could have 4 votes against them every match.
It's a no from me, they're already going to penalize disconnects when Dedicated Servers come out, and if someone is a prolific disconnector then they get banned anyway.
8 -
The solution to disconnections is to make the game fun and fair for everyone. The majority of players do not want that.
1 -
But is having mods checking it truely automated though? If we were having mods check it we could just scrap the whole karma idea and just go off who disconnects and then sick the mods on them.
0 -
Obviously that would be compensated by the survivors votes towards the killer holding less value. Banning is not a healthy solution when the reasons for disconnecting are so common and vast
0 -
Better to have a handful of people to review rather than half the player base
0 -
I think you are missing the point that I said, if we had mods that were available to check this sort of stuff then why would we need to add karma since we already have a reporting system and likely a way to track DCs. With the idea you have put forth I think the karma system would just be kinda tacked on, since we would already have moderators.
0 -
You're missing the point. Why have a team of moderators to handle an ocean of issues? When you can have a smooth automated system that the community feels like they're actually participating to effectively make the game a better place. (Reporting now doesnt mean a damn thing without video evidence.) Or just have a very small group that only has to deal with the smoothly funneled players that are the worst of the community
0 -
It's irrelevant to make votes mean less for survivors as you're racking up 4x the amount of them, lmao.
0 -
Measure karma also for camping tunneling and fake unhooking and you have my vote, sir.
1 -
The reasons for disconnecting are so common and vast because there are no reprecussions to DCing. If any little thing annoys someone, they can just leave because it doesn't matter. Once you start introducing penalties to weigh against such behavior, those reasons suddenly become less important.
0 -
I have played several hundred hours of TTT, and on most servers, a low karma leads to a kick and/or ban from the server, ensuring that only people who aren't griefers actually stay on the server, which guarantees a good and healthy experience for everyone except when the odd griefer pops in.
On the servers that low karma doesn't lead to kicks and/or bans, griefers run rampant.
In other words, in my experience, bans and kicks are extremely effective. I don't know how you believe otherwise.
0 -
It's not irrelevant? Not really sure how I can show that to you if you don't already see that
0 -
That's the idea.
0 -
Even after explanation I really don't see how adding karma ontop of this would make it simpler for the moderators. The way I see it from a mods perspective would be "Hey this user has 115 karma, let's go check it out." vs "Hey this users disconnected 6 times out of their last 15 games, lets go check it out."
The fact of disconnect ratios would be better then a 50% community generated 50% objective-completion/disconnect number would make it easier to sort though people that the system would flag.
Side note: You still haven't tackled the other things I said about the system in my other comment.
1 -
You think people disconnect purely for that reason? That's not very open minded or logical. People dont leave because they can. They leave because something is happening in the game to invoke extremely discomfort and unenjoyable experience, so much so that they bite the bullet of screwong their team and leave.
1 -
Except they've literally said they leave because they can.
0 -
Honestly this is a horrible design because you rely on people to rate each other fairly thats not how it works man maybe in other games it works but dbd nah this wouldnt work to many babies.
1 -
Who said that? Every disconnecter? Lmao. You can compare the rate of disconnect from this game to any other game with integrity and a working punishment system. The disconnect rate is much higher in dbd. So is it just a toxic community..? No. It's more complicated than you're perceiving it to be.
0 -
It doesn't work in any game. Players should never be allowed to influence the matchmaker. The very notion is absurd.
4 -
This could make it so some Killers will want to remove their karma to get to low-karma Survivors who will DC on eachother, making for easier matches, or resulting in more DCs, resulting in a DC victory.
0 -
If you read the entire post, you're simply wrong. It doesnt rely on people to vote on each other. That's just a partial addition to affect karma. Not the main one whatsoever. In fact you can just remove that part and it would still be a functioning system
0 -
No, just the ones who've spoken up. Which is better than all the zero you've spoken with.
If you were to add proper punishments for disconnecting, like in every other multiplayer game ever, it will work out. Unless, of course, you have a hypothesis as to why it works in every other multiplayer game ever made, but wouldn't work in DbD.
0 -
100% agreed, and if someone has a bad match no one should feel obligated to report for someones "behaviour" in match.
Killers would be getting de-karmad based on NOED, Ruin etc
While Survivors would get de-karmad based on Using certain items, looping etc.
0 -
Disconnect ratio is less accurate since people disconnect for a multitude of valid reasons, as stated earlier. Restate your question here if it's on this topic
0 -
There's only one category of valid reasons for disconnecting, and that's when something in the real world requires your attention.
0 -
Not every player senselessly votes so this would be less significant than you make it seem. Regardless. Ignore the part about voting other people. It's still a valid system.
0 -
Lmao I'd hope anything related to real life is more important than a game. Please use logic in your arguments rather than fallacies that sound good to you
0 -
All the reasons mentioned in this thread are invalid and based on made-up rules, so I figured I'd bring some facts. If you don't like the facts, well, that's your problem. They're not gonna change.
1 -
100% agree here, if you disconnect from a match that is on you. Unless we are adding "disconnect reasons" after every disconnect that the other people can vote on I don't see a way this system could work.
0 -
The first actual problem I've read opposing my theory and suggestion. Agreed, that is definitely something that would probably happen. But unless the killer keeps leaving and destroying his/her reputation, this wont really be worth the effort
0 -
If that's the first one you've seen, then you should go back and actually read the rest of the comments. At least half a dozen problems were listed.
0 -
You're all getting hung up on the part where players can vote on each others karma. This doesnt have to be included what so ever. Or maybe include it for players 2k+ karma? Either way, forget that part because it has a lot of issues I'm not prepared to work out on paper
0 -
Yeah I think it's going to be a no from me, I see plenty more reasons about why a different system should be implemented over this system.
Still a fun talk though.
1 -
None of them followed my premise or were fallacial/irrelevant. The problems pertaining to the voting aspect of karma are true but dismissed entirely since we dropped that idea
0 -
Go play rank 15 survivor for a few hours. Make sure to go against a couple of lagswitchers. Come back with your list of valid reasons for disconnecting. Because you're trying to be sarcastic but you're 100% right about there being a list of reasons worth disconnecting from a Dbd game
0 -
Still havent heard any valid reasons from you though
0 -
Yes. It is very logical. The chance that people will do something wrong goes up significantly if they know they can get away with it. If you and your friend continually shoplift, but then your friend suddenly gets caught and goes to jail for it, do you keep doing it? Is there not a single doubt that the consequence suddenly realized effects you at all?
People leave for the dumbest reasons because they can. Downed? DC. It's a killer I don't like? DC. Ran into the Killer? DC. Killer outplayed me? DC. Introduce some consequences and suddenly those issues don't seem so bad anymore.
Honestly, quit using DCs as an excuse for your agenda to get people to only play what and how you want them too. Accept that some things are just in the game and move on. Or don't and leave.
1 -
This originally felt like a logical conversation but now it just feels like you are ignoring some of my main points like some of the side effects I put in the very first post on your thread that you kinda just ignored.
3 -
Reputation matters little to none, as you can see with outbursts happening in 20% of the endgame chats.
Whether it's worth the effort is not simply a yes or no.
If camping is said to not be worth it, people aren't just gonna stop camping.
They're not related, but the same applies here, they're gonna do it.
1 -
Your first post on my other topic went around in circles. I'm not spending all my time trying to decipher it if you cant make it clear. I'm still having a logical conversation. It's just being overwhelmed by multiple stubborn and closed opinions which is fine.
0 -
I agree, and its unfortunate
0 -
Alright then. I'll really spell it out.
The system is tailored to better players, if you know how to play better then most they you will likely do more objectives and win more, making you go up in karma.
This would increase matchmaking times as it adds just another layer that the system will have to look through before putting people into matches. In a game where you will already be put in games with people being 6-9 ranks ahead of you and now their karma matters too. Whats going to happen if you are the only rank 18 in the really good side of karma? Do you just play with the other really good players who higher ranks then you? Or do you just match with the toxic people who are de-piping and waiting for resets to remain at rank 20?
3 -
The whole issue is your premise. Sure you have a point that the matchmaking is incredibly poor. But Id hope you would never be the only good karma player at rank 18, ever. The game will probably be long dead if that's the case
0 -
Well if I am the only survivor at rank 17 (killer main here lol) and I queue against purple ranks I alreadly don't think that the game is capable of matching people who are at my rank AS WELL as putting them into category based on karma.
Also, nothing on the other point?
0 -
That's why the game needs more than a lot of work. This is necessary imo but matchmaking still needs to work in order for this to even be attempted. And I dont see any other point worth arguing
0 -
But you can't have your solution work towards a phantom game-state that doesn't exist for your argument but then say that it don't apply to mine in your other post.
You said in you other posts something along the lines of "You'll cripple the population of the game that way though" in reference to someone to someone else talking about banning people based on DC since the game doesn't have the population to cope with players outright being banned from the game. (If I am misquoting please tell me.)
But when I bring up that the game doesn't have the population nor the matchmaking power to deal with your solution it's invalid because "they'll fix that one day too."
If we are going to talk hypothetical where the game has plenty of players and DCing is the only issue in the books that we need to deal with right now then I suppose your option could work despite flaws pointed out by other people and myself.
If you are going to make an arguement it needs to be one that fits the way that it currently is built so we can actual start working on issues.
1 -
The game is absurdly broken the way it is. I am talking present tense. No hypotheticals. A karma system now would help greatly, right now. But all the other issues you want to tall about... matchmaking and such is all independent from this issue. Of course you can make an argument like that but I'm going to be sitting here all day if you expect me to hash out every aspect of the game you decide to use against me. I'm suggesting a karma system, and it would work to decentivise disconnecting, and prevent many unjust bans.
0
