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If Noed gets changed would it be feasible for killers to see an adrenaline change?
In my opinion noed and adrenaline are equals and opposites
Noed can completely screw over a team - insta downs
Adrenaline can completely screw over the killer - everyone healing a health state when gens are powered. Only nurse can come back from this (paraphrasing from otz - video https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZeRjIy-Opo)
If you had to ask me what I'd change about adrenaline I'd just make it so the heal only applies when in an injured state. Not dying or hooked. Only injured.
And if that's "too strong" just make it so that adrenaline also gives this effect "after all generators are powered you get healed 5/10/15% faster" or something as "compensation"
On the other hand I'd change noed to only affect survivors that'd been hooked once and maybe remove the movement speed buff I'm not sure
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I don't think they're comparable perks. Adrenaline itself doesn't need a change as much as gen speed does. When it's quicker to power through 2-3 remaining gens than to heal, that's what makes Adrenaline strong. Deal with genrush and you deal with Adrenaline.
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I said adrenaline is comparable to noed not is the same as. Do you want give a reason why you don't want adrenaline messed with?
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You make a good point there. And the reason I think the both are comparable is because they both activate after the gens are all done and both can have huge impacts on the game from that point on
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To me it doesn't make sense that you heal if you're incapacitated when the last gen goes off.
If you're slugged, then yes, get up. If you're injured, then yes, go to full HP.
A survivor that was in the dying state in the killer's arms when adren triggers, then goes on a hook should not come off the hook completely healthy. A survivor who is on the hook when adren triggers should not come off the hook healthy.
Adrenaline is already an insanely huge power spike, and it happens at a time where your team is already ahead, putting the survivors even further ahead. It simply doesn't need the added bonus of being an easy SWF tactic to delay popping gens for tactical heals off hooks and easy escapes, nor the added bonus of delaying part of the power spike to ensure the killer is further crippled if they play around the survivor being unhooked.
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So you wouldn't care if (this is a hypothetical situation and meant to be an example) you had 2/3 survivors injured and on death hook. You were about to get two kills because you slugged someone and your chasing another injured one. But suddenly last gen is done and all that effort you put into trying to secure at least two kills is torn to bits. A killers only counterplay to that is well. Running noed
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They activate at the same time, sure, but one is a last-stand that gives you a bit of leverage in the end of the game when you don't have any (NOED) while the other rewards you for reaching that stage. Only the game has now shifted so that people just neglect an aspect of the game to rush through to the end of it. They might have opposite effects but that doesn't make them really comparable.
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We all can't be godlike killers like you who get 4k's constantly. Sarcastic comments aside the amount of effort required varies from killer to killer
The top tiers - if you play them well then not much but if your still learning then it takes a bit of effort
The mid tiers - a considerable amount of effort
The low tiers - a tremendous amount of effort
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I think the framing is wrong here.
Some perks are clearly meant to be counter-parts, but are only comparable in that they can be compared: but any comparison shows their differences more than their similarities.
Take for instance BBQ and WGLF; they are direct counter-parts, intended to boost the point-gains of players who are playing in a certain way. Are they 1:1 alike though? Of course not; WGLF does not prove an aura-read because survivors already have that relevant aura-read in their base kit: they can always see where the active hook is. Survivors with WGLF are also competing with other survivors for that unhook.
BBQ by contrast incentivises the killer to leave the hook, especially early on so they are more likely to get everyone hooked at least once. If WGLF was designed to be exactly like BBQ, it would defeat the purpose of it lining-up with the playstyle that BBQ encourages the killer towards: the killer leaving the hook allows a safer rescue, which is being incentivised by WGLF.
NOED and Adrenaline by the same measure are not 1:1 alike and can't be if they are to have a mutually-synergising purpose. NOED is a 'rubber-banding' perk; it allows a killer who is behind to catch-up suddenly. Adrenaline is a 'snow-balling' perk; it allows survivors who are just a little bit ahead to suddenly widen the gap. Like BBQ and WGLF, they function as encouraging playstyles from each side that line-up together, as long as both are mindful of them.
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People are saying that "killer failed becouse he didn't kill all 4 before gens got done"
No he didn't fail.. or are you saying you are getting 4kills EVERY round before 5 gens get completed?
The game is balanced araund 2 kills 2 survive, so on the average 2 survivors are "guaranteed" to get adrenaline. So statistically if killer manages to kill all 4 before 5 gens are completed it reguires survivors to fail
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Yeah I'm sorry about my wording being off but I'm glad people get what I mean. Now that you mention wglf I think that should have another effect other than "muh bloodpoint grind".
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A lot of Survivors think 5 gens instantly means they won and if the killer gets them after that it's a "free kill". They rushed to the next stage without preparing for it and got bodied as a result. It's just an easy scapegoat for failure.
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If I'm being honest I think the devs should take a percentage of all matches and then balance it around how high the percentage of matches contain swf.
E.g : if 20% of the matches contain swf some of the perks that are strong in swf like adrenaline and other perks that require planning to use effectively should be tweeked
If 80% of the matches contain swf nerf some of the perks that are strong for swf but buff things like breakdown and bond so that solo play is stronger than it currently is
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Ppl are also failing to remember that both NOED and Adrenaline activate when the hatch is closed. Did the survivor EARN that adrenaline still when 5 gens are still left to do and hatch gets closed? Did the killer still FAIL in this instance?
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Maybe it needs adjusting, but one reason why it is not 1:1 with BBQ is because it doesn't give an aura-read like BBQ does, but this(I think) is clearly because survivors can already see the hook aura by default when someone is hooked; they don't need any more information. Any additional benefit to WGLF would no longer make it equivalent to BBQ, but superior. Instead any change to the perk would need an equivalent change in survivors base kit.
It's a similar situation to Brutal Strength: it was popular for a while because it sped-up breaking pallets so much. Then the default break speed got buffed; which wasn't a nerf to BS at all, but by comparison now makes BS less desirable because of the buff to base killer kit. If survivors were to lose hook-aura from their base kit and it to be added to WGLF, it would push WGLF closer to being 1:1 alike with BBQ, but would be seen by survivors as a nerf to their base kit but not a buff to WGLF. The perk becomes more desirable, but has not really been buffed.
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They always leave that one out, survivor fails to do any gens, 3 dead one on the ground, you close the hatch - the 4th one gets up running.
But hey, noed rewards bad killers right? 😎
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I'm more disappointed in you not having a legion pfp Dr deepwound rather than the survivor double standard :kappa:
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The two are not opposites. They do not act as a counter. I don't care much about adrenaline anymore and I rarely run NOED. Adrenaline rarely comes into play due to the large amount of potatoes playing survivor. When you do get a good group and Adrenaline kicks in, so be it.
I've rarely lost a match due to it, it was usually mistakes I made much earlier that allowed adrenaline to seal my loss.
NOED, I used to run it until I figured out it was a crutch and was holding me back. I got a lot better once I stopped running it.
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"I'm a killer main and I don't mind survivors having crutch perks. I just don't like ruin, NOED and spirit fury! They are a bullshit. I am a killer Main!11!!. I need to 4k without any effort with every single killer.... FOKIN perkless!!!! Oh and addons are for Pu**ys. I AM A KILLER MAIN!"
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You know why I don't run NOED? Because I prefer perks work for more than 2% of the matches up time.
Which is why I don't get all this NOED hate. Not only is it completely preventable (and Hope counteracts it's speed boost) , but the killer is literally going a perk short for most of the match for that burst of power they "might" be able to take advantage of later.
Just admit it, you guys don't like having defeat handed to you when you were so close - no more than killer's like getting a DS or Adrenhiline when the gates are opened. In both cases, you feel cheated.
Which is why many of us who play both sides don't really see a difference in the two perks - they are both perks that cuck your opponent hard.
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When will people accept that NOED and Adrenaline arent supposed to be related in any manner?
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@FrenziedRoach You wanna talk about NOED hate... Ive had survivors give me ######### about having NOED equipped, even when I win WAY before the last gen pops and NOED never activates.
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Adrenaline is just as much of a cause as it is a reward, so I'd like to see it changed. People say it's a reward for completing gens, but I'd argue that entire team isn't hammering gens while injured if they don't all have Adrenaline, and thus the gens might not get done in the first place if they actually took the time to heal throughout the game. Any health state before death hook doesn't matter because gens are repaired at the same speed and you escape the same way whether you've been hooked twice or zero times.
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NOED is a garbage Perk with easy counters that will only punish Survivos who ignore totems or can't loop.
Adrenaline is the strongest Survivor Perk in the game.
They aren't comparable.
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Yeah but you also forget that the reason some people hardly touch gens might be because the killer has been right up their behind the entire time, or they have been making saves when others wouldn't dare go near a hooked survivor.
No one is saying that in order for Adrenaline to work you must touch a gen, everyone has a role in a match, it would be stupid to expect every single survivor to work on gens. That isn't their only objective. Which brings me to my final point... some of those people who aren't working on gens usually keep the killer occupied and usually die before the perk can even work.
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Adrenaline rewards you for doing your objective. You get 5 gens, you are good, you get endgame bonus. That stuff rewards you for it.
NOED is opposite. If you didnt manage to kill everyone till 5 gen pops, you get your handicap.
But, i think that both of them are ok.
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@MaskedMurderer Why would you open the door for them? The game isn't over once the generators are done. It's over once every survivor has either escaped or been sacrificed.
If noed rewards bad killer, how about it activate once killers accomplish something? Say, sacrifice x amount of survivors? They've earned it since they've done such a good job feeding the entity.
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Adrenaline works the same just like old Mettle of Man did. You taking hits to "earn" a free healthstate is something that would happen every trial but you just get rewarded because you took the perk in question. You work on gens like you would normally and get rewarded because you took the perk in question.
Only reason (I think) adrenaline isn't complained about is because it, in some peoples opinion, happens after the last gen is done and that is the exact moment when those people think that the killer has already lost the game and the survivors have won. If adrenaline happened at, say, 1 or 2 gens left, everyone would go bonkers about it. It would totally ruin the killers fun.
The same people who complain about noed are usually the same people who defend or have no quarrel with adrenaline, because they think the match is already over and they as a survivor should already have won the match. They think if the killer has noed that the killer robbed them of the escape that they already earned.
If noed should be compared to something it should be old mettle of man. The difference is one of them has a counter, one did not.
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The game isn't over until everyone is dead or escapes.
All your post is doing is exemplifying that the phase of the game wherein Adrenaline activates is already horribly survivor sided, creating a "win more" scenario against the majority of killers.
Adrenaline also punishes low tier/immobile killers for spreading out their hooks and not tunneling/camping people out of the game asap to "counter" adrenaline (people say to kill the survivor as a counter, but frown on the easiest methods to do so :O )
Adrenaline also now activates in the exact opposite scenario (closing hatch regardless of gen completion), rewarding the survivor for failure in a scenario that, apparently, is supposed to reward the killer for doing "good."
Finally, and this may just be my opinion, but calling people that use NOED bad killers while literally implying that you may as well open the door for anyone that's made it to that point is ironic on so many levels within this discussion.
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Being a survivor main, If noed gets changed in the sense where its either ONLY the insta down or ONLY the speed, i can deal with an adrenaline change!
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Ok, hold the thought that you had in your head while typing this post. The thought is: 'the survivor can sometimes be too pre-occupied doing something important to meet the ridiculous bar that is being set'.
Now take it and apply it to the killer. Suddenly, it becomes obvious what is so wrong with all of the discussions that have been happening about NOED on top of lots of other things regarding how unfair the game is towards killers.
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And when will accept that they feel the same? They both cuck your opponant in the critical last moments of the game.
DEAL WITH IT
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I hope this is kind of poor bait. Otherwise you lack the ability to understand how the perks are designed. Guess what? NOED rewards for bad play (being unable to stop doing all gens) while Adrenaline rewards for doing well (doing all gens). But you obviously seem to not want to understand that.
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Adrenaline also now activates in the exact opposite scenario (closing hatch regardless of gen completion), rewarding the survivor for failure in a scenario that, apparently, is supposed to reward the killer for doing "good."
Lol, like that matters at all.
It's killer's choice to close the hatch.
Also in most cases last survivor will eventually die because killer just needs to check the exit gates.
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I thought adrenaline activates on the hatch being closed as well as the last gen popping?
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It's survivor's choice to do totems ;3
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I love how people say that NOED rewards bad players. It's like they actually believe it too!
NOED does one thing and one thing only. Punishes bad/lazy players. NOED can only activate if the survivors allow it to. Period. If a group of survivors are too bad or too lazy to be bothered with destroying the totems on the map and choose to take the risk of running into NOED, then they deserve what's coming to them. They chose to gamble on the killer not running it and sometimes, they're going to lose that bet. But, the killer isn't to blame, the survivors are!
Stop blaming your deaths on NOED or 'bad killers' because you die after the gates are powered. You want a nerf to NOED? Destroy the totems and I promise, that'll nerf the crap out of it. Otherwise, stop whining already.
Destroying totems is not hard and doesn't take that long. If you're not familiar enough with the area, bring Small Game and/or maps until you learn. (IE: get better at the game). Once you're familiar enough with the maps, you can single-handedly take down every single totem in every game you play and never have to worry about NOED again. If you choose not to, that's on you.
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Yeah, and that's why i don't complain about noed either. So i'm not sure why you mentioned it.
Maybe to dodge what i said? ;3
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Sorry if I sound malicious here but if adrenaline is a "win more perk" then why does it pop when there's five gens left and the hatch is closed? Is that doing well?
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Oh, everyone forgets that part, or, at the very least, will tell you that it's impossible to escape in that scenario ;3
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NOED punishes survivors for not cleaning totems.
NOED is a hex perk. It's up to survivors to clean totems to counter the hex. Just like Ruin. Where is the killer skill needed for ruin? None. The only difference is that Ruin is active at the beginning of the game, NOED at the end. Survivors have all game to counter NOED. It's their fault if they don't.
There are a handful of perks that don't require skill from the one using it. Take DS for example on the survivor side. It's a perk that does not require survivor skill but rather punishes killers who tunnel. How is that different from a killer perk that punishes survivors for gen rushing and not cleaning totems?
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the same like NOED, so what do you want to tell me with that? doesnt has anything to do with what i said
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