Apparently no Kindred basekit anymore ...

DaS_only
DaS_only Member Posts: 656
edited July 2019 in General Discussions

So in the stream the devs backtracked about the idea to give solos kindred as basekit.

I personally think this was the most sad statement I heard from the devs for a very long time. It's really demotivating me that the devs just not even try at least in a PTB to see how it works.

Imo kindred basekit would solve so many problems solo survivors currently have, making them more efficient, closing the gap to swf and allows more killer buffs in the future without rofl stomp solos into the ground.

Post edited by DaS_only on

Comments

  • ASpazNamedSteve
    ASpazNamedSteve Member Posts: 1,784

    Saddened me too

    I loved this idea ever since they mentioned it :'(

  • kamisen
    kamisen Member Posts: 794

    It is a bit sad. Thankfully, they seem to have something else up their sleeve! Case by case basis sounds to me like it has to do with the size of the SWF-team...

  • Entità
    Entità Member Posts: 1,583

    I'd like very much some extra icons in the HUD: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/46961/change-for-the-solo-survivors-to-help-be-in-level-with-swf

    @Ihatelife had a very good idea and I contributed to improve it.

  • ArecBalrin
    ArecBalrin Member Posts: 636

    If I was going to argue in bad-faith, I'd argue that Kindred is a huge benefit for survivors to have which they don't need to earn and takes no skill, even without putting it in the basekit.

    Instead, the point I'll make is that this benefits survivors more that they do not all have it by default.

    The killer is uncertain that a save will be attempted. They know it's likely, but they don't know by who, they don't know if the main purpose is to farm, lengthen the game or SWF-related(strategic VS genuine altruism) and they don't know what perks will be in effect.

    Every player wants to reduce uncertainty for themselves and increase it for the other side. You want Kindred as basekit; the killer wants to know if you have Kindred, which if it was basekit they now definitely do know every survivor has it.

    DS was majorly buffed in what very unimaginative people still think was a nerf. Previous iterations of DS has one thing in common: the Obsession probably has DS and if they do, the first time they get picked up is the best time for them to use it. Anyone could have DS, but the Obsession likely had the most perks that would cause them to be the Obsession. Now anyone can have DS, but it's triggered in a specific circumstance that is designed to coerce the killer's behaviour: picking someone up after they've been unhooked is heavily penalised. Every survivor benefits from the uncertainty though because they don't know who has DS, meaning even survivors without it could be left alone after they've been rescued.

    So what of Kindred? The big issue is not so much that they can see me(a killer with stealth can just hide out of range), but each other. It's the person on the hook who has Kindred equipped because it encourages other survivors to save them by letting them all know if anyone else is going to try. They all know who is closest, who is being chased by a killer that has left the hook and where etc.

    If Kindred worked a different way, like if anyone was hooked rather than just the person using it; they're mainly using it to see if they can make a rescue without someone beating them to it. This is the same as if it were basekit; it's not the person on the hook looking to be rescued by using Kindred now to influence the behaviour of other players. The killer no longer has uncertainty about this though; they know every survivor is eye-balling and challenging each other to get there first if they are at a similar distance.

    This could be the one scenario where having BBQ reveal auras tells the killer to stay put; they're coming to me. Not knowing if Kindred is being used means it probably isn't, meaning leaving the hook is the best way to find another survivor. Knowing that it's always being used changes this.

  • Mat_Sella
    Mat_Sella Member Posts: 3,554

    Kindred doesnt have to basekit the moment you are placed on the hook, but after maybe 30 seconds it should activate.

    Equipping the perk in your loadout could make it activate immediately and provide an additional benefit, assuming basekit Kindred is weaker than the tier III variant.

    It would kill (sorta) two birds with one stone, the former being camping (at least slightly) the latter being solo dolo's not bumbling about all the time

  • DaS_only
    DaS_only Member Posts: 656

    Idk about that, feels like taking driving with your car half the way and walk the other half. It's better than now, sure. But why not just driving with your care the whole way? U know what I'm saying?

  • Boosted_Dwight
    Boosted_Dwight Member Posts: 3,059

    Truly saddening :(

  • Mister_Holdout
    Mister_Holdout Member Posts: 3,144

    I'm really conflicted on this topic.

    I recognize the benefit it would have for solo players.

    ...But at the same time, it could be a huge pain for high rank killers.

    Imagine you're playing Wraith. You get a map with some really nasty loops. Naturally, the survivors are going to take full advantage of the RNG. Now add on to that Kindred as base kit, and all of a sudden that poor Wraith is going to have a really unfun match.

  • DaS_only
    DaS_only Member Posts: 656

    Which he already has when going against swf. So nothing is going to be harder. Solos will be just more coordinated, this allows more buffs for killer to balance out

  • Mister_Holdout
    Mister_Holdout Member Posts: 3,144

    @DaS_only Giving survivors free aura reading can make the match much harder. Make no mistake about it.

    Trust me, I fully understand what a pain solo survivor is. But I don't trust the devs to compensate killers.

    All of the unbalanced maps need to be reworked before Kindred can be made base kit.

  • DaS_only
    DaS_only Member Posts: 656

    This will just take forever. I would like to have a good solo experience like back in the days when things were just completely different and such things like kindred not needed

  • Mister_Holdout
    Mister_Holdout Member Posts: 3,144

    @DaS_only Then you would be having fun at the killer's expense. Not really fair if you ask me.

    Besides, lousy matchmaking is the reason solo survivor is so unfun. If players reliably got matched with other players of their own skill level, then Kindred wouldn't even be needed.

  • fluffymareep
    fluffymareep Member Posts: 634

    @Mister_Holdout I thought that most people who wanted a buff to solo also wanted a buff to killer to be able to address both. Why wouldn't they compensate killers if that's what people are wanting? I'm kinda disappointed they stopped considering it.

    I'm not sure if fixing matchmaking would be enough, though. While being matched with weaker players can be part of the issue, the lack of communication is worse. It's so frustrating to have the nearest person (while on the hook) finish a gen and run away from you, assuming someone else is closer. It's frustrating second staging while the killer is no where nearby and it's frustrating to not be able to communicate that the killer is camping. Solo players have a harder time punishing campers due to that.

  • Mister_Holdout
    Mister_Holdout Member Posts: 3,144

    @fluffymareep Because until the devs do something about the garbage map design, certain killers are going to have a really hard time against competent survivors. If you add to that free aura reading, then the match will be even more unfun for the killer.

    Also, matchmaking is indeed the major problem. I've played with really skilled survivors before, and I don't think I ever saw one instance of someone not getting rescued in time. Good survivors know how to play the game well. Unfortunately, there are plenty of survivors who don't.

  • fluffymareep
    fluffymareep Member Posts: 634

    But isn't that something they're working on? They made a lot more unsafe pallets in some of the newer maps from what I've heard and seen. They were looking to cut down on loop money I think they called it? I would personally think it'd be fine to just show the auras of survivors the hooked person is currently looking at and the killer if the survivor can see them (if they're close). That way the killer can get away with camping they would have gotten away with if the person didn't have Kindred. I know someone else suggested icons and I'm okay with that, too.

    I'd consider myself decent and have let someone second stage or die because the person going for them got cut off and I didn't see (e.i. they didn't get hurt) until it was too late. If you have two people on separate gens, they're likely to think the other is going for the save, too.

  • George_Soros
    George_Soros Member Posts: 2,270
    edited July 2019

    Would be nonsensical. Giving everyone, every time my exact location within 16 m of a hooked survivors, for free? Crazy idea. Camping is scummy I know, but some killers are very good at it. I had a lot of fun at times with Wraith, downing the same guy again and again, fresh off the hook until died. If he has Kindred, then it's fair game, and I get punished for it. But a free Kindred would kill certain fun playstyles. So glad the devs ditched this silly idea.

  • PrincessPoop
    PrincessPoop Member Posts: 919

    Yeah I was really sad to hear that, because closing the gap between solo/swf should be a top priority imo. Hopefully they have other ideas in mind.

  • Mat_Sella
    Mat_Sella Member Posts: 3,554

    @George_Soros Just because some killers are good at camping and that they believe it is a fun experience for them, does not mean it is good for the overall health of the game. It would be quite greedy of a camping killer to consider their (lack of) gameplay to beyond the means of balance, wouldn't you agree?

  • George_Soros
    George_Soros Member Posts: 2,270
    edited July 2019


    I'm not sure. Other people's fun is not my responsibility, and it's not like there's so much camping in this game (most complaints about it are not valid). I personally tested if it works, it did work, it WAS fun (maybe not for the survivor who I tunneled to oblivion but that's his problem), but this kind of thing gets boring after a while.

    Still, camping is the same as NOED in one aspect: the great thing about NOED, is that I never have to run it, but still some survivors are worried enough about it to waste time with totems. Likewise, if they suspect the killer is camping, they waste more time approaching the hook in a more stealthy way. Whereas if Kindred was made baseline, it would effectively make camping impossible. Which is not a problem because camping is such a great thing to do, but because survivors will KNOW you're not doing it, so they can always rush for those silly (almost-)instasaves. Don't forget, while survivors have a lot of counters to killer aura reading, killers have literally NOTHING to counter survivors' aura reading perks. Give not one but THREE survivors free aura reading, even if killer leaves the 16 m radius, they'll know which way he's headed. Way too strong effect to be given freely.

    Btw I'm very strongly in support of bringing SWF and solo players closer. But that's not the way to do it.

  • DaS_only
    DaS_only Member Posts: 656
  • George_Soros
    George_Soros Member Posts: 2,270

    Partly yes. But I honestly think it's way too strong. It might make a little more sense to give them the ability to see each others' auras. But to track the killer for free? Closing the gap between SWF and solo shouldn't break the game.

  • DaS_only
    DaS_only Member Posts: 656
    edited July 2019

    I think you are missing the point my friend. Swf is ALREADY breaking the game. There is really no way around to give solos some buffs to compensate the lack of voice communication. Cuz voice communication is the strongest tool a swf team can have and sadly there is no way to avoid/ban voice coms

  • George_Soros
    George_Soros Member Posts: 2,270

    Well, we can agree to disagree, and I admit I'm at loss as to how to solve the problem better. In the past I cried as much about changes as the next forum troglodyte, but somehowalways managed to adapt... the game is still great. So I'm not saying if baseline Kindred will happen, it's automatic uninstall for me. But I can't help thinking about a better way to do it than just handing out a free perk to everyone.

  • Im2Shrewd
    Im2Shrewd Member Posts: 77
    edited July 2019

    If people like the effect of Kindred so much then just run Kindred. It’s only one slot and it’s fairly common.

    I’d rather them make some version of borrowed time base kit, since it’s a required perk to attempt rescues against face campers.

  • TAG
    TAG Member Posts: 12,871

    What about a weakened version of Kindred? Rather than giving Survivors exact location of the Killer, it only gives them a simple notification of when the Survivor is within a certain range of the hook (like maybe the hook changes color)?

  • George_Soros
    George_Soros Member Posts: 2,270

    I don't know... frankly, lately I trust the devs more to make relatively balanced (if imperfect) changes, than any of us professional forum whiners.

  • Im2Shrewd
    Im2Shrewd Member Posts: 77

    I know, but If it was really such an amazing perk it would be run more.

  • Volfawott
    Volfawott Member Posts: 3,893

    @George_Soros

    Couldn't agree with you more even though the devs have made some pretty stupid decisions ( like the flashlight and pallets save any stage of the animation change)

    but honestly I trust them a lot more Whine up a storm on the forums