Seriously, last survivor gets Fd by endgame collapse
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Although I know where you're getting at, that is too ideal of a scenario. Usually the person is injured as well and even if there's a tile nearby, it's not guaranteed there's a pallet or a possibility to lose the killer. Even if you're healed, doesn't mean opening the last portion of that gate will be long enough for you to get out without taking another two hits.
I will say just open the gate for less of a 1/3 of the bar progression and hide until the killer comes and goes. The first red light tick doesn't show until after you progress more on the gate. That or use Wake Up or bring a key (which is besides the point, but it's what you can do for now).
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I'm fine with the Endgame Collapse part, just not the Hatch piece, I hope they re-work it.
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Use Adrenaline. It saves you with escape gates, and Wake Up if you need too. ;)
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Exit Gates need a minimum distance, and the lights should all be lit so that you can tap a door and hide and the killer won't know which door you are on so easily.
It's not about wanting a free escape, it's about wanting a FAIR CHANCE at an escape. As of right now, there is no fair chance unless the gates are on opposite sides of the map or the killer messes up big time. Majority of the time you will get caught before you even get 50% on a door, and the moment you get found your dead.
The amount of times I've seen a survivor escape through the doors after hatch was closed since EGC was introduced I could count on both hands (as either surv or killer). Closing the hatch is basically a free kill for the killer. So I will throw the question back at you... why should the killer get a free kill just for closing the hatch? You didn't actually catch the last survivor, you just put them in an unwinnable position. If they get away then it is 1000% killer's fault because it really should never happen.
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My only issue with end game collapse is when both exit gates are close to each other. Because you’re guaranteed to die then. At least when they spawn on the opposite sides of the map you have a 50/50 chance.
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OMG can survivors stop complaining about this, first to the hatch wins. So what if it's hard to open the gates afterwards, it's still a chance
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Hatch spawns when your team has failed to some degree which includes you or when all gens have been completed or someone has died and enough gens have been completed. If a killer manages to close this you get another free chance at escape by using the door to escape.
Each of these methods gets harder as a result of the team's failure to produce results. Unfortunately sometimes you get boned in the beginning, have a great killer, or have a bad team. Sadly that's part of the game. EGC was the answer to hostage taking by toxic survivors. Now you can either except that each failure has a escalating penalty or accept it and start planning counter measures.
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Survivor touches hatch: escaped
Kilker touches hatch: doors powered and another chance at escape for survivors?
Killer still has to find, chase, hit and hook the last (or any other) survivor. Where did that "free kills" nonsense come from?
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EGC is mostly crap for survivors. It should be sth where both sides had actually a chance to win instead it's just extremely unfair luckbased and everytime I literally had no chance to escape I loop the killer for the rest of the time to show him that he hadnt any chance against me and that he's not allowed to touch my body. And Im like how killers really try to at least land a hit in the last second for their ego xD
Yea. Very rarely a killer is able to land a hit before the Entity kills me and then he maybe deserved this little win.
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Gates are always just a bit too close together tbh and just because you are the last survivor doesn't guarantee you a pity escape.
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There’s no downvote anymore but A for effort bud. Way to take a stand against those mean killers /s.
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So I will throw the question back at you... why should the killer get a free kill just for closing the hatch?
If the survivor gets to the hatch first he gets a free escape (undeserved, because they didn't complete all gens), and if the killer gets to the hatch first he gets a (probable) free kill (kinda deserved because he killed the rest of the survivors). It's just a race, and even if the survivor loses the race, the kill is not guaranteed. If they change the doors distance to be more fair, you still have a THIRD chance of escaping. It's hard? Well I remind you that you didn't complete your main objective to escape, so just be gratefull you have 2 extra chances.
And besides, let's say that you played so good and looped the killer for ages and completed like 2 gens on your own so you feel like you deserve to escape... you are most likely going to rank up anyways. I died and still ranked up countless times.
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If you are so good why don't you loop the killer while your teammates repair gens? xd
AND OF COURSE ITS LUCKBASED it's an extra third chance you get for free when you failed at: 1. Repairing 5 gens (you know, the actual thing you are supposed to do to be able to escape...) and 2. Getting to the hatch before the killer.
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It's ok, everyone has gotten killed during EGC before. There's no need to lie.
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If you kill the last survivor without knowing where the hatch was, then that is your fault as killer if they get hatch. If you do it with 3/4/5 gens and the hatch hasn't spawned, that's still your fault because now you gave the last survivor that chance. If you want the 4k, slug the third guy and find the last guy, or find the hatch before you kill the third guy so you can go close it immediately. You have literally 0 excuse if a survivor takes the hatch.
Any time I want a 4k this is what I do, and almost every time it results in a 4k. Only a few instances has someone escaped through the gates, either because I messed up or because the gates were farther apart and it was more difficult to patrol.
So at the end of the day, if a survivor takes hatch or escape through the gate it is KILLER'S FAULT for letting that happen. You have options to stop it, so you have no right to complain if they hatch.
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uh... you failed to escape with your team, you failed to escape through the hatch and you still get another chance to escape. seriously, i do not see any reason for you to complain at this point.
at some point, the killer just deserves the kill, ya know? he already denied you 2 possible escapes AND finds you before you can utalize your 3rd. that should be more than enough imo.
how many 2nd chnaces do you actually need?
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If it's not SWF than there is no such thing like team. And the game is all about second chances, without it it's just not fun.
If the last survivor is not a brainless suicide like those that are given to him by matchmaking, then he should have one last chance, just to make the game a little more spice.
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uh... you may not believe me here, but actually those other 3 survivors running around ARE your team, weather you like it or not.
and "one last chance" is already given to you. its called the hatch. its literally your second chance of escaping after failing the objective with your team. and if you fail to use this second chance, you get a THIRD chance to escape by the gates powering.
and you really want ANOTHER ONE?
this owuldnt spice up the game, this would be ridiculous!
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The way I would changed EGC is simply put two red lights at 50% and 100% of opening progress instead of 3 at 33%, 66% and 100%. This would improve chance for survivor to stealthly open gates. Infact, this is still possible now, but I'll agree, it's kinda hard task. And also, probably "Wake up" should show you at progress bar when exactly those lights turn on. Come on, this perk could use small buff!
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Well, i play survivor. And it is possible to do a gate. Just not the way most survivors play end game. its all about patience mostly, unless you run against a billy or nurse. But most doors i can open easily when hatch is closed.
All you need to do is simply wait at one exit till the killer gets there too look for you. The minute he turns his back to the door and heads for other one, start doing the door. 99 of 100 times killer doesnt look back. And you will make it out.
But most survivors like to run straight to a door and start. Thats just stupid. There is plenty of time to wait at the door.
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Four random solo players without communications is not a team!
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If you kill the last survivor without knowing where the hatch was, then that is your fault as killer if they get hatch.
Not your fault, it can just happen. You could say the same thing as survivor. Though once there is only one survivor, it's easier to search for the hatch as killer than survivor, I can give you that.
If you do it with 3/4/5 gens and the hatch hasn't spawned, that's still your fault because now you gave the last survivor that chance.
So what you are saying is "don't kill them, let them do some more gens so the hatch spawns so you can search it and then kill them".
If you want the 4k, slug the third guy and find the last guy, or find the hatch before you kill the third guy so you can go close it immediately. You have literally 0 excuse if a survivor takes the hatch.
I find that a bit tryhard.
Only a few instances has someone escaped through the gates, either because I messed up or because the gates were farther apart and it was more difficult to patrol.
That is what I'm talking about, the gates should be more difficult to patrol.
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First of all, yeah they are your team, they are doing gens and distracting the killer.
Secondly, what do you mean the game is about second chances and that it wouldn't be fun without them? Like, the fun is in mindgames and being skilled at hiding and chasing.
And lastly, you have a one last chance, the hatch, and another one last chance, the EGC, and if you are good at the game you are supposed to get teammates that are good too. I can agree that the matchmaking needs a little tweak
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This entire post is summed up as "I don't want to do what I should do to stop someone from taking hatch".
"So what you are saying is "don't kill them, let them do some more gens so the hatch spawns so you can search it and then kill them"."
No I'm saying SLUG THEM until you find the last guy. If one is slugged and the other in chase, you just got a 4k as killer. You don't have to let them do jack. Just slug and the last dude can't hatch.
"I find that a bit tryhard."
Then don't complain. If you're not willing to do what is necessary to get the 4k you don't deserve it. Kill the third guy and take the chance, or slug them. Stop complaining like you have no counter play options.
"Not your fault, it can just happen. You could say the same thing as survivor. Though once there is only one survivor, it's easier to search for the hatch as killer than survivor, I can give you that."
Yes it is your fault. If you take the time to look for the hatch after it spawned, then you can kill the third guy and be on top of the hatch ready to close the INSTANT it opens. It is very easy to do. Stop acting like a victim. It is entirely in your control if the last survivor takes the hatch. The only exception is when the third guy DC's, which is dumb and shouldn't work anyway, but that has NOTHING to do with the actual hatch mechanic and everything to do with the DC issues in this game.
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For me it's just three random solo players witch probable gone suicide on hook, one by one per minute.
And I mean, waiting for the entity to take me because I don't want to feed the killer with additional points is not very fun.
And lastly, most of the killers can easily control both exits and even have perks that will not leave to the last survivor a chance.
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all 4 of you are working together to achieve one overall goal: escaping.
those 3 other players ARE your team. you rely on them just as much as they rely on you.
together you can win, alone you can not. its simple: 4 survivors go into the match vs 1 killer. the 4 survivors need to work together as a team to overcome the killer and escape - thats the whole idea behind DbD.
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End Game is honestly fine, you made it to the end of the game, you'll get a ######### tonne of points, just die and more on lol.
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Except it's not really a team game. Your goal is to escape, but as an individual. What happens to the others does not matter to you unless you want it to matter. Survivors have the option to play selfishly if they want. It's generally in your better interest to help others, because the longer the entire group survives the greater the chance any individual has a chance to escape. But you are not bound to other survivors.
Otherwise they would change the game to be more like Deathgarden, where if 2 of you die the entire group loses. That's not ever gonna happen though.
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well, yes you dont necessarily need to play together AS a team, but you still ARE in the same team.
DbD has 2 "teams" going up against each other during the trial: the one man team called "killer" and the 4 man team called "survivor". both teams have different objectives and goals -> the killer wants to kill and the survivors want to survive. however, since the killer is much more powerful than the survivors, the survivors need to play together as a team to overcome the killer. if every survivor just survives on their own and give no ######### about the rest of the team, they will lose the round. they might get lucky with the hatch, but still 3/4 survivors will most certainly die (with very few exceptions).
the description of the game states, that you can work together with your team to try and overcome the killer or try to survive on your own - which is by far the harder option.
survivors are like a machine with 4 gears. each gear is one of the survivors and if they all work together perfectly, the machine is literally unstoppable. however, if one decides to not work with the others, that is like a broken gear which will heavily affect the machines overall functionality, leading to losses.
this is literally why everyone hates SWF, because they can play together as a team a lot better than 4 random people (thanks to voice coms), which makes the survivors stronger than the killer and leads to a loss on the killers side. they wouldnt achieve that by playing everyone for themselves.
TL;DR: you are not forced to play together with the rest of the team, but it doesnt change the fact that you are a part of the team. this is the whole point i wanted to make with my previous comment, since his answer was "Four random solo players without communications is not a team!" - yet they are.
also, deathgarden doesnt work like that anymore.
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Stop complaining like you have no counter play options.
I'm not complaining about that. Since when this is about the killer having resources to get to the hatch?
You are still not seeing the important part: you have to win as a team. If all your teammates are dead, you simply failed. Don't complain if it's hard to win after that.
Whether your teammates are useless or suicidal, that is another argument.
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So what you're saying is that if the other 3 survivors are complete idiots and make a bunch of mistakes to get themselves killed (or just flat out give up), I should die too even though I have absolutely no control over what they do or how good they are? I'm just totally at the mercy of other players. Right, that's really super fair to me.
Fact is you are NOT a team. If I want to be out for myself I can choose to do that. If other survivors are bad that doesn't mean I deserve to die with absolutely no chance to escape.
And you are complaining about hatch. It is so easy to counter now it's honestly not even funny. Here I'll break it down again...
1) Hatch hasn't spawned yet? Slug the third guy and find the last guy. It really shouldn't be that hard, and if they hide from you for a full like 3 minutes while the guy bleeds out then they actually deserve it.
2) Hatch spawned? Slug the third guy and go look for it. Once you know where it is, take the hook (be sure to hook as close to the hatch as you can) and rush over there. You should almost always be able to stand directly on the hatch as it opens. Close it, then patrol gates. Easy 4k.
3) Stealth killer? EVEN EASIER 4K!! Just standing directly on the hatch in stealth mode until the survivor shows up. They can't jump in because you are blocking the hatch jump prompt. The moment you see/hear them, close the hatch. Now it's impossible for them to get away unless you massively screw up.
I'm telling you, if I want a 4k I do this stuff and it works every time. The only way to beat this is with a key, and if you see a key in your lobby you should be playing to make sure that guy dies first, or use Franklin's. There are counter play options here too, though I will admit keys are a little too good at the moment. But in normal gameplay, you should never have trouble getting a 4k if you play smart.
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really people whine over every little thing about this game, from animations to lighting, from killers to survivors, there really is just no end to it all. Luckily I am kinda entertained by hurt butts.
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Me and @Masantonio was playing together when our team got destroyed, and I was the last one remaining.
There are a few things you can do to increase your odds of survival:
- Memorize the killer's patrol pattern
- Progress the Exit Gates just below 20% and hide, so the first red light doesn't come on. Then come back and finish opening the Exit Gates with 80% left instead of 100%.
- Do the opposite of number 2, then book it to the other Exit Gate. The killer should waste enough time investigating the area that you escape via the other Exit Gate.
Survival Clips
Out of all the times I've been the sole survivor, I've only escaped 3 times during the collapse. 3 times may seem like a small amount, but I'm rarely in a situation where I'm the sole survivor since I'm usually sacrificed.
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You are technically in a team even if you don't like it. The whole idea is if the survivors can't or won't work together then everybody is screwed. If all your team mates die then they have failed the most important objective which is to work together. 1 v 1 killers will win because they are stronger but survivors are suppose to use their numbers to work to out play the killer. Yes the hatch is their for the last guy but it's a random chance you get it. Opening the gates is less random and favours the killer since the rule is first to the hatch wins. A bad chance is still a chance worth taking.
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No you're not a team. The game even tells you that you can work together or play only for yourself.
Getting hatch is not random, it's entirely on the killer if you get hatch or not. If they kill the last guy without caring that hatch could spawn anywhere, or without knowing where hatch is, that is THEIR FAULT. Killers have control over the situation.
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Honestly I've just given up once I see the hatch closed... Fast vault repeatedly until they come find you and move to the next game.
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So what you're saying is that if the other 3 survivors are complete idiots and make a bunch of mistakes to get themselves killed (or just flat out give up), I should die too even though I have absolutely no control over what they do or how good they are?
Yes, that is what I'm saying. The only reason you can beat the killer is because he is outnumbered. 4 survivors can completely kick the killer's ass sometimes.
You are not understanding the game if you think there should be no difference in your teammates dying or not.
And as I said, your teammates being complete idiots is another argument, you are supposed to get people who are as good as you, BHVR should make sure that happens.
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No I think it's you who don't understand the game if you think survivors are a team. I can play super selfishly and just hide until the others either do gens or die. It might not be that effective but I can do that because we aren't a team. Yes you are more likely to die when there are fewer survivors, but that doesn't automatically equate to you should ALWAYS die if there are no other survivors left.
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The reason why it's not effective and you are more likely to die, is because you are a team, and you are screwing them by doing that.
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But you're not obligated to work with them. If you play selfish you can make up for this problem with certain tactics or perks. That means you are not a team.
Like if I want to escape and play selfishly, I'll put on Bond and lead the killer to other survivors during a chase. I'm increasing my chance of survivor by doing that, even if it's just short term.
Basically what you are saying is that if 1 survivor is bad or makes a mistake everyone should pay. No, only that survivor should pay for it.
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Like if I want to escape and play selfishly, I'll put on Bond and lead the killer to other survivors during a chase. I'm increasing my chance of survivor by doing that, even if it's just short term.
You are an ######### if you do that. And you can't possibly tell me that you really think that's how the game is meant to be played.
Basically what you are saying is that if 1 survivor is bad or makes a mistake everyone should pay.
kind of. We are talking about 3 not one though.
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Yeah, just get rid of infinite loops, key drops, and nerf Adrenaline then it will be balanced. XD
But yeah, Survivors should be able to get a good amount of BPs, and Healing by yourself shouldn't be kind of pointless without a medkit, but it shouldn't be as easy as before. Maybe make rate of healing slightly faster, but with smaller skill checks (Because it should be difficult operating on yourself).
Gens absolutely need to go slower. I get in games where the first gen is done after 20 seconds, and that's with ruin. Gens often get done in the course of 30-50 seconds if you leave them alone.
It's true, hooks should take longer if you got a sacrifice on it. Not gone forever, just takes a while. Maybe have an animation that shows the progress instead of just "poof", it's here.
Well, but killers can't take away survivor perks, and most end game builds don't work all the time. I miss the old Remember Me...
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Interesting... I think it could work, except for three things:
- Hatch closes after 30 seconds.
- Keys are found/brought too often.
- Killer should have the ability to close the hatch, since survivors can get the door open if they know what they're doing really quickly.
Other than that, maybe it might work.
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It is how it's meant to be played. Otherwise the game would be designed so that all survivors have to escape. They don't. Devs have even said stuff like this is okay, as long as your not explicitly working with the killer.
Like some games there comes a point where you want to just let the other guy die so you can escape, because if you save them you're both dead.
Face it, survivors are not a team. They can be a team if they choose to, but they can also choose to not be a team.
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Just because you could choose to work as a lone wolf does not mean they are not your team.
No matter how you look at it where are your survival is based around getting everybody out or getting just yourself out survival is still the main goal of the survivors.
Hell the best example of this is Dwight's perk quote I need you to survive so I can survive.
Whilst not work exactly together as a team the other people's survival is mutually beneficial to you.
This is what is known as an alliance and if you're in an alliance with someone you're a team.
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I think the EGC epitomises the idea of responding to problems by being seen to be doing something and because people see you did something, they think you fixed the problems.
Killers asked for hatch-closing because hatch stand-offs forced a stalemate in a situation where the killer had done their job, but the survivor that could benefit might not have contributed anything or even been a problem to everyone else. Rather than give us what we asked for, fairness, the devs gave that survivor yet another 2nd-chance after they had lost their 'final' 2nd-chance. Then they packaged it in the EGC as a distraction from what they had just done.
As they let survivors 99% the doors, it does not prevent them holding the game hostage at all; it's just now the killer can be humiliated into opening the door for them. EGC should really start when the gens are powered, as is consistent with the nonsensical trigger in the hatch-closing scenario.
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The EGC is way more fair than before it was implemented. Now, the one who find the hatch first, win, and even in that case, when the killer find it first and close it, the survivor have a minor opportunity to scape if he/she manage to open a gate. Before EGC, finding the hatch first as survivor was a win, finding the hatch as killer ended up being that horrid and ridiculous battles of patience called "hatch standoffs" (in my case I simply let survivors scape when I was the killer, I don't like to waste time only for getting a 4K), it was unfair, because finding it first as killer didn't mean a win, only a hatch standoff.
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"Working as a team doesn't mean everyone escapes."
YES. This is why hatch exists and why survivors get a chance to open the doors if you close the hatch. It means that there is always a chance to escape, killer can never just automatically 4k because they killed 3 other survivors.
And it doesn't matter if it's toxic or a Dbag thing to do, it's a valid option and the devs have said this. This means that survivors are not a team and the success or failure of one survivor does not mean the success or failure of another survivor.
Like I play to keep everyone alive as much as I can but there is a limit. When the gates are opened and you get hooked in a NOED Trapper's basement, guess what? YOU ARE DEAD.
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I'm not coming to save you, unless I just desperately want BP or something. I'm walking out that gate and moving on to the next game.
Your whole argument is that survivors are bound to each other and therefore hatch shouldn't exist, or that they shouldn't have a chance to open the gates. That it's unfair to killers. BLAH BLAH BLAH. No. That is wrong. You have no obligation to save other survivors. Therefore the game should always provide a fair chance to escape regardless of what happens. This besides the point that hatch/EGC is totally fair to killers now as they have COMPLETE control over it (with the exception of when a key is in play). Like I said, if I want a 4k, I can play around hatch/EGC and get a 4k consistently. If the last guy gets out it's usually because I don't care so I give them that chance. Usually I still catch them, sometimes I don't (or I just literally let them leave). But that's my decision to play that way, I have plenty of opportunity to counter hatch/EGC if I want.
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When the gates are opened and you get hooked in a NOED Trapper's basement, guess what? YOU ARE DEAD.
That's right. Working as a team doesn't mean everyone escapes. And as I said in my last reply (that got deleted because I said that if someone leads the killer to another survivor on porpouse, they are a d*ck, lol) "You don't have to work as a team until the end, just to get all gens done".
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EGC should really start when the gens are powered, as is consistent with the nonsensical trigger in the hatch-closing scenario.
That would be too much, in my opinion.
It would mean that if the killers gets someone when the gens are done, they will get a certain death.
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