http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why is Legion bad?
First let me say, I do think that survivors are a little OP and some balancing needs to happen. I am a killer main and can play most killers at a high level. Having said that, I don’t understand why Legion is considered bad. His power slows the game down, and he has the normal killer speed for regular chases. In fact, I would say that he is definitely better than before. Pre patch legion was able to successfully tunnel, but that usually meant that other survivors escaped. From a pure “can he win” standpoint, I’m not sure what is wrong with him.
Comments
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People are upset they can't use the stab, stab, stab, stab, down playstyle anymore.
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Unironically this, i really miss the 28 STAB WOUNDS playstyle Legión had, Now they feel extremely slow and there is no thrill on playing them
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This
Legion is fine, people are just upset because their degenerate playstyle is no longer possible due to being extremely unfun and unhealthy for the game
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Legion main here. What annoys me:
4 SECOND STUN for using your power!
Feral Frenzy barely helps you chase survivors, and barely lasts. Vaulting is so slow, and the power doesn't even down anyone. It barely slows the game down too. It also takes too long to recharge to use a bad power. Missed attack is annoying but needed, so is normal hits decreasing gauge. Loopable and it is easy to lose Legion's line of sight now that you can no longer see blood. Also miss multi stabbing in some way :/
Glad there are no more exploits, but he is the weakest killer now. Bubba is more powerful, I agree now.
Post edited by Ember_Hunter on7 -
The reason he has no power is because if the survivors are smart they just seperate and make Legion literally powerless because you only get 1 hit because of your power in a chase and then you have no Power at all you have to chase being a normal m1 killer that can't do anything you can also loop legion in FF because it is so slow.
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well, if you wonder what the complains on this forum are about its pretty much what @Mc_Harty said.
however, if you wonder why he is always low on tier lists, thats because his power is bad. he can not utalize it during chases very well, since you wont get survivors past the injured state, which leaves him to be nothing more than a normal M1 killer who gets looped to death while being genrushed. deep wound is also a very unnecessary status effect, since it barely wastes any time and usually requires you to spend more time traveling to and hitting them than for them to remove it and sit back on a gen.
if you were to ask me, why i think legion is bad, i would say its because their power is very straight forward and has no depth to it. you cant mindgame with it, you cant use if for anything besides stabbing one and injuring them quick. same problem as old freddy had, but even he had mindgame potential with his power. honestly, i would wish for a legion rework that adds some depth to him and allows for cool mindgames and different playstyles - what they just did with freddy.
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I am a pre patch Legion main and I have talk also with many other pre patch Legion mains via the forums, or the steam friends messanger.
The honest answer is, that the most people just miss his playstyle and that is a legimet reason, since the old Legion had a unqiue playstyl.
For me as example, it is the only reason why I complain about the Legion patch.
But on top of that, comes the frustraion why the Legion got nerfed - or why many people think that the Legion got nerfed.
The most people believe that the Legion got nerfed, because she was very strong, but that was not the case. The base Legion without addons, or only low addons was really weak.
What the Legion has make strong and in my opinion op, was the addons.
You would think, that it would be the best to nerf then the addons - but bhvr had decided to go even beyond that and with that they have anger many people.
Now we have a Legion that has a ton of drawbacks and let us be honest... Which person enjoys playing a character, with a ton of drawbacks?
Imagine, that survivors would be autostunned after every pallet/window vault... The forums would be full of threads because of that, because no one would be able to see a reason in a rework like this (I at least not).
And so it is with the Legion.
Sometimes those complains start even to be stronger and are sometimes overdrawn, but here you need to see that pre patch Legion mains still have to struggle with the same complains of some very loud, but also incorrigible survivors, that talking from op and so on.
Under this conditions, the used arguments can be going more extrem and overdrawn as before, because you don't reach the people with other words since they have all made their picture in their head and are not able anymore, to listen to people who must have known it best, because they spent an incredible amount of time with the Legion - aka. the Legion mains.
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If we consider the power from how it's supposed to be used which is to chain attacks on multiple survivors to make them waste time, then yes the new legion is a buff to the old one.
The problem is that good survivors don't heal unless they aren't taking the match very seriously and this is bad for Legion because if survivors don't heal then Legion doesn't have a power other than to make survivors mend for 15 seconds. The reality is that although this is 15 seconds of a survivor not doing anything to progress the game, a large chunk of that time you just made is actually wasted trying to chain an attack.
Let's imagine a scenario you stab someone in Feral Frenzy and you go out to chase another survivor 8 meters away who happens to be running away in a straight line. A survivor moves at 4 m/s while Legion moves at 5 m/s in Feral Frenzy effectively meaning that you used 8 seconds to hit the second guy. Now let's assume nobody else is nearby, you now spend 2 seconds catching up and end your power after catching up to the survivor meaning that you will now waste another 4 seconds going into the fatigue which will mean the survivor gains 5.2 meters and you will not catch up to them until 8.66 seconds later. This means that without even going counting the time it takes to down them, Feral Frenzy has effectively only provided you 1 second to spare and if the survivor makes it to a loop then your power was literally for nothing and you have no impact on the chase from there other than to be a basic M1 killer.
To clarify, getting people injured fast isn't terrible - what is terrible is having no power outside of that for when people don't care about healing.
Unfortunately that playstyle is actually still possible through running the addon "Frank's Mixtape", it's just highly inefficient is all. That being said, I find that people are actually more upset with the long fatigue time and the fact that they have no power against injured survivors more than anything - not the fact that a cheap and unfair playstyle was removed.
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@KillermainBTWm8 You can't loop FF at all unless its a very short loop where you can take advantage of the slow pallet vaults.
An easy first hit is still a 1 hit chase since its almost unavoidable. Survivors won't heal half the time due to this making him tier 3 myers the whole match minus the longer lunge/vault speed.
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You can at Jungle Gyms and at Pallets like you said. If healing is that important for survivors then why isn't Plague a top tier killer? Getting 1 hit is useless if you are against good survivors that know how to properly loop. The survivors will just rush through gens and get Adrenaline against a legion he defo works against bad survivors but not against good ones.
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You can no longer down people with franks mixtape, i have already tested ir myself
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Survivors came up with a simple counter-play to Legion on day-one: stay away from each other and just mend when Legion plays how the devs intended, which of course involves leaving them to let the mend.
Legion-mains developed the 'cooldown build' style, using addons that decrease cooldown on Frenzy along with the mixtape addons, to focus the same people down and making their usual chase-focused playstyle very difficult.
Survivors then made a counter-play to this by...no wait, they didn't. They did their usual thing of crying to the devs and having what kilers did as a natural part in the pendulum of: play, counter-play and counter-counter-play, no longer an option. They have form with doing exactly this and claiming there is no counter-play when they just couldn't be bothered trying.
Now they say 'yeah, well what counter-play could there have been after that? Tell us'. They are making this argument after-the-fact though: we don't know because we can't go back and play against the old Legion and do survivors job for them.
Killers had complaints about the lack of any counter-play to the survivors preferred playstyle, but the devs just kept buffing it instead.
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Odd, that must've changed recently then - I remember trying it out on the PTB just to see how many hits it took.
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@KillermainBTWm8 I think it's map dependent to be honest. I don't think its the killers fault.
I 100% believe Legion and Plague can beat top tier rank 1 survivor players doing that on maps that aren't super safe.
So like new Badham, Lerys or Chapel are good.
Then you get maps like Haddonfield, Torment Creek or Ironworks and you'll have a bad day.
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If they are repeatedly running away, they aren’t doing gens.
The “no heal” play is risky though, especially if Legion has monitor. Add ons also make it hard for survivors to get away from a swipe.
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Legion is punished harder than Nurse for using his power and his power gets countered by survivors spreading out ( which is the most effective way to play ).
Being better than before doesn't mean much because old Legion was garbage without moonwalking or Frank's Mix Tape.
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He's an M1 Killer whose clunky power does nothing for him outside of location scanning and getting the first hit. After Freddy's rework, he is literally the only Killer whose power becomes 100% worthless in a chase.
At the very least, survivors are permanently exposed if they choose to deny Plague's power in chases. Legion prevents them from healing for about 20 seconds.
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He's bad because his power has a net value of 0 at best and is a net loss at worst.
He can't patrol with it because the fatigue removes all mobility.
He can't chain hits because he barely moves faster and is hard-countered by a myriad of things, including exhaustion perks, pallets, and just not being bunched up.
He can't stall because Deep Wound is a joke and takes 15 seconds to mend at max, assuming you don't sit in his 32-meter heartbeat to ignore the timer.
Want to use your power as a free first hit? Enjoy your free Decisive Strike stun and headache-inducing tunnel vision while any Killer with mobility or stealth is better at getting free first hits than you are.
With Legion's power, one of two things happens:
1) You try to chain hits or use your Killer Instinct for any sort of pressure, only to realize that if the Survivor is more than 10 meters away (yes, I did the math), you can't catch them. You then go into your fatigue and receive a net loss for using your power, because in the time it took you to finish your Frenzy only to still be miles away from the Survivor you were trying to get to, the first Survivor you ran away from has a 95% chance of being fully mended and on a generator. In short: You get punished for using your power.
2) You use it for a free first hit and then go into a Decisive Strike stun with seizure-inducing tunnel vision, wishing you'd just played Wraith instead.
Overall: Not very good.
Keep in mind, I played old Legion the way new Legion is forced to be played. Meaning, I used Frenzy to chain hits and apply stall using Deep Wound, and outright refused to use it as a tool for winning chases. Also meaning, I was a 110 M1 Killer.
And I still think these changes were a nerf.
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At best you're only distracting two survivors for a very brief amount of time and only accounts for when the Legion is actually nearby, other examples can include a survivor who is far away and sits on a generator until you get up close. I consider Legion to be one of my more frequently used killers and by playing the new Legion a lot it's pretty easy for me to gain an understanding of how much or how little the power actually does in a match.
Not healing against Legion isn't actually that risky when you have massive maps like Mother's Dwelling, Rotten Fields & Temple of Purgation, maps like Temple of Purgation (again), Gideon Meat Plant or Thompson House that are full of safe pallets or maps like Disturbed Ward, Wretched Shop, Fractured Cowshed or Grim Pantry for instance that have incredibly safe buildings. Even on decent/good maps like most of the Autohaven or MacMillan Estate maps a good survivor can drag you on a chase for a while especially when you have no power outside of easily injuring survivors. While monitor & abuse helps the Legion get up closer, perks like dead hard and adrenaline makes not healing a very attractive option which often has a pretty solid payoff considering that you aren't wasting 32 seconds healing ontop of 15 seconds of mending.
Lastly, the only addons that can actually help Legion in a chase are the fatigue addons which only reduce it by 0.6/0.4/0.2 seconds (1 second at most by combining Cold Dirt & Joey's Mixtape). Even if we consider removing a second off of the fatigue the survivor still gains 3.9 meters which still gives 6.5 seconds for a survivor to make it to a loop which I can admit is helpful on certain maps, but on the majority of them you'll still be able to make it to a loop of some form of value.
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To sum it up: Jack of all trades, master of none
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Well because the new legion is boring and doesn't have a definite plsystyle.
I am OK with the old legion being gone, but this new legion is boring, weak, vanilla
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Legion is in a tough spot right now. Their power is more of a DS for Killers and their addons are all useless besides cooldown and extended mending. They’ve stated that they’re going to rework the button addons, but that doesn’t help fix the situation Legion is in. Legion really just needs an entire rework imo.
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I think reverting the vault speed and power-stun changes would be enough. Those nerfs were unnecessary with all the other changes, IMO. Frank's was BS, and moonwalking was BS, but those were the biggest issues.
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My suggested changes that seem like a better idea than what Legion currently is:
-revert his feral frenzy speed and vault speed to what it was, chases in feral frenzy sucks.
-keep the 115 movement speed as normal, or make it 110 if needed to balance.
-his power gauge is filled faster, keep the power gauge decreased by normal attacks but at a reduced rate.
-You can use the power any time you want as long as power gauge is greater than 50%.
-his power should last long enough to be able to run most of the map distance. It sucks at the moment when I run in feral frenzy and don't even reach half the map distance.
-stun is 3 seconds again, 4 seconds is too long to give survivors distance, discouraging me to much to continue chasing.
-can see blood again in feral frenzy, it is too easy to lose survivors after stabbing now, especially P3 Claudettes and dark maps.
-break action and locker check is faster in feral frenzy, since you are still about to during the power and you are in a frenzy, why not?
-Missed attacks is kept (needed, as much as I hate it)
-(special) hitting all remaining survivors with power awards ability to down the mend time like before (still suffer misses attack consequences, so this is a skill based effort, gives pressure and multi stabbing I want!)
-mending has skill checks, if Doctor can, then why not mending? And decrease the terror radius, David didn't notice it in the trailer. Mending should have risks, because it barely distracts survivors from the objective.
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Long story short, the Legion is bad because they're nothing but a M1 killer with a big terror radius.
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