Noed Nerf/Changes
I really am not a fan of noed, because it just feels like a mix between a crutch and a bandage perk, that doesn't help the game at all. The only reason why noed is not viewed as a problem is because the survivor escape rate is still high enough in games where people use noed. But this is not because noed is balanced, this is because killers are generally too weak. And this is basically what I am refering to the most. Killers in this game are too weak for the most parts, so noed is basically the bandage that makes them not lose at the end of the game. But having one perk change the outcome of the match is just a crutch. And on top of that it is not fun for either side. Yea I understand that it is pretty satisfying to slap that Tbagging survivor with an insta down because he got too cocky, but this just displays another problem I will not go over today. Besides the short satisfaction at the end, it is not fun for killer to not get enough downs during the match and get run around the entire time, so he has to rely on noed. For survivors it is also not fun because if they did well, they don't deserve getting hit by noed just because they maybe couldn't find a the 5th totem on a swamp map. It just an unfun experience experience for both sides, but furthermore it also corrupts the game statistics. I don't want to know how many killers get basically carried by noed and still at least black pip after they had a really stressfull game that they were about to lose. Noed makes killers win more than they should and this is problem regarding game balance. Noed makes the win ratio for certain killers higher, with missleads people thinking that certain killers don't need to be looked at anymore. Now people would say that they first should buff the weaker killers and then rework noed, but this would still not resolve the problem of noed to alter the killer win/loss ratio. And how broken Noed can be on a good killer can be seen if you look at nurse. A nurse that is just halfway decent can dominate an entire group if noed procs at the end, and everyone who went against a noed nurse can agree that this one of the most unfun matches. I don't want every killer to be at nurse level, but they shouldn't be too far off either, but this is an other topic again. It is necessary to nerf noed before thay rework the weaker killers, so the statistics display the true threat of every killer respectively.
I also don't want noed to get nerfef into the ground because I generally like the idea to have this endgame perk that makes you have a "second chance" or at least not give up right away. But the speed increase + insta down is just too much of a benefit. Noed would be better if they just remove either of the properties. Remove the speed buff, so survivors still can have a chance to get away if played smart, which at the end game is at its hardest, because most likely 85%+ of the pallets are used up already, so getting the hit is just far easier. Or remove the insta down, which I would prefere, because I think that insta down should come with a skill cap like billys chainsaw and shouldn't be achieved by just pressing one button for literally no effort or skill. But just having a speed boost wouldn't be enough to apply enough pressure lategame, so I suggest to further increase everything chase related. Eg: +5% movement speed increase , +10% vault speed increase +15% cooldown recovery on missed attacks, +15% pallet break speed, +25% stun recovery (numbers are subject to change, but you get the idea), maybe also giving it an additional haste effect for the first 10 secs, so it is easier to get to the survivors. This would make it easier to to chase people down without making it feel completely unfair to go against it.
So what do you think? Any Noed rework Ideas? Please be polite and reasonable
PS: I played this game for about 800 hrs and over 500 of those I put into killer, I also get to rank 1 pretty much every season (depends on how much I play) and to red ranks with survivor.
Comments
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its not unfair to go up against.
cleanse totems.
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NOED and Adrenaline do not interact with each other. So a nerf to one does not imply a nerf to the other
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clease the totems then you won't have a problem against noed. people should learn to destroy the totems i mean one totem gives you 1k points because you should learn that noed isn't op or strong.
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but if they would rework noed my idea would be:
-when the exit gates are powered this perk activates.
-you recovery speed by missed and sucessfull attacks is redcued by 20/24/28%.
-you see the aura of survivers for 4 seconds.
-you pallet destruction speed is 14/18/22% faster.
-you stun recovery by pallets is 20/25/30% faster.
-you vault speed is 10/14/18% faster.
-its not a totem perk.
that would be my Reworked noed idea.
Post edited by Just_Playing on3 -
It does somewhat as both give a strong second chance in the endgame scenario and unlike NOED, Adrenaline has no reliable counter to stop it from activating.
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My recent games with any killer on purple ranks are offten "genrushed". I don't of course blame Survivors for that lol, that's their objective, but there is also another side objective: Totems.
I played a lot of slow down perks (Ruin, Pop Goes, etc.) and still some games I got "genrushed" anyway. So I started to play NOED instead of slow down perks and I have to say: I love it!
You can avoid NOED by doing totems --> less time on Generators --> longer games = less frustation for Killers. OR you can "genrush" and avoid doing dull totems as usual and risk that you get punished for it.
AND If you will get killed or downed by NOED, you can only blame yourself because there is very simple counter play to it: JUST. DO. TOTEMS.
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yes i mean they increased the bloodpoints by totem too 1K because they want that they do totems.
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I didn't say they don't have similarities. But that's not what makes 2 or more mechanics connected.
You nerf something in response to nerfing another thing if the nerf to the 2nd thing is a buff to the 1st. Or vice versa.
For example, the Enduring sidegrade is a DS buff and a SF buff due to both of those perks having an interaction with Enduring. And a buff to Sloppy butcher is also a buff to Thanatophobia. However a buff to Sloppy Butcher is NOT a nerf to self care and botany, because even though they are effecting the same mechanic (healing) they are NOT effecting each other, that is to say that even with SB you still get the full effect of both perks.
If Adrenaline it nerfed it's Sloppy that would need to be nerfed in response, not NOED. Since Adrenaline completely cancels out Sloppy while losing none of its effect, making it as if the Killer wasn't running Sloppy to begin with.
So for NOED:
If NOED is nerfed, then Small game, Maps and Detectives Hunch would be nerfed by this change, and ToTH would be buffed. So in order to maintain the current balance additional changes to those perks would be needed.
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"NOED definitely should be changed imo it rewards you for failing, unlike adrenaline which rewards you for succeeding, and gives undeserved kills."
@Mtom912 This is silly. Survivors have a bunch of Perks that reward them for failing. Not even that, but the hatch opening when 3 Survivors get killed is also a reward for failing.
Some of the perks:
Unbreakable: Lost the chase, downed. If the Killer doesn't pick you up you can save yourself.
Decisive Strike: Picked up after being downed after getting off the Hook? No thanks.
Deliverance: Pull yourself off the hook after unhooking another survivor.
All of these perks, including NOED, and even the Hatch have ways to deal with them. So the major issue isn't that NOED rewards killers for failing, its that most Survivors are too lazy to do Totems and they get punished for it.
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The biggest difference of every other example named is that every other "second chance" perk, if you want to call them that, is that they're a one time use. And after it took effect you have one less perk for the rest of the match. Noed does not expire after unless the totem is broken and from a survivor perspective it is very unfun to just rnu around the map and looking for the totem you missed cleansing. People do cleanse the totems they see, but if it's not found it's because it is well hidden and finding that is neither fun or challanging, it's just a huge annoyense. I also agree that killers need something more. but this is just too much of a crutch to rely on
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How about survivors stop complaining and understand that NOED gives the game more cardiac action? I play with Blood Warden and the mix with NOED is fun as hell to feel. Maybe, to be in "the middle" of the discussion, I propose they nerf NOED so that it doesn't insta down survivors unles they have been hooked at least once, that way, baby killers who focus on one looper the whole game won't get anything from using NOED, and killers like me can still have fun when PURPOSELY letting survivors fix the last 2 generators to get the thrill of a cardiac end game.
LIKED MY IDEA?
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Noed is fine as is, the only thing you swhould change about Noed is the IQ of people playing against a killer that has it.
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It wouldn't be a crutch perk if it had a requirement, giving it a requirement to use makes it a reward or trump card.
No One Escapes Death
If you Hook 5/6/7 Survivors before the last Gen is completed a random Dull totem is turned into a Hex totem. As long as this totem is active you move at an increased 4% speed and inflicts the Exposed status on Survivors.
At Tier 3 you only need 5 hooks and that's basically hooking 1 Survivor twice and the other 3 once and if you have BBQ & Chili you're already going to do this anyway so it's not much different. This makes that Exposed status a trump card, a last chance HA HA!!!!! you earned that ultimate power instead of it being given freely. This also means that Survivors can only complain that you did a mediocre job instead of getting something for nothing when the Killer obviously did a good enough job to get this saving grace.
Also, this is how I use NOED, I never want to use it to win. When I bring in this perk I go in with the intention of dominating until the very end. I let them get the last Gen so I can make them feel confident again and then their hope grows that they'll escape. And then I smack em' down laughing my ass off revealing it was all just a trick and they were never going to escape unless I wanted them to.
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just get rid of noed and adrenawin both are crutch perks.
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I'm gonna say it's entirely balanced. As many have pointed out, cleanse totems. Simple, efficient. Learn totem spawns and check them. Sure, you won't be able to gen rush, but it'll save you time at the end of the game if noed can't even proc because all the totems are gone. That to me seems like fair counter play. If the killer notices the totems being cleansed, they can choose to stop visiting gens and try to find whoever is breaking totems, also wasting killer time, so, it all seems pretty fair imo. If you don't want to waste time looking for a totem because it isn't fun, that is your choice but it doesn't mean that noed needs a rework or a nerf. Just my opinion.
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I think it should just say if noed is up right away instead of it not showing until someone gets hit. I always cleanse totems when I see them dull or not but I repair, save from hooks, and work on gens. I can't be searching for totems the whole game and If I do I'm not altruistic enough because I'm cleansing instead of saving. Tbh other survivors have to just learn to cleanse it's so annoying that they don't
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I think they should nerf Noed. If the killer is any good they dont need noed. Its call patrolling gens. Plus noed saves a lot of baby killers. I just went verse a guy who ran all the hexes. He had ruin, thrill, d hope and noed plus he was babysitting his totems. People talk about strategy but that ain't strategy is playing like a baby killer bc they dont know how to patrol gens. I dont get salty from camping or tunneling but I think they should make it a little more fun. Idk why ppl run it on one hit down killers tho.
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Cant cleanse them if they are running thrill with it.
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Surviviors don't have to play slow for your enjoyment. Why do people not understand this? It's not the goal of the Survivior to sit around with their thumb up their ass waiting for the killer to choose the hook they think suits their chest the best, it's to survive. They survive by doing the gens. If you don't like that Surviviors actively try to survive instead of gambling on you using a perk to salvage your terrible gameplay, go find another game to play.
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Killers don't have to play "fair" for your enjoyment. Why do people not understand this? It's not the goal of the killer to sit around with their thumb up their ass waiting for the survivor to choose the gen or pallet they think suits their teabagging the best, it's to kill. They kill by slugging and hooking survivors. If you don't like that Killers actively try to kill instead of gambling on survivors using whatever perks to suit your terrible gameplay, go find another game to play.
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Okay congrats to you. Here's my adrenaline counter, kill the Surviviors. Do ur job.
It isn't the fault of the Surviviors that they get hit with Noed if they did make an effort to cleanse it but were unsuccessful. As long as literally 0 emphasis is given to doing totems, there's no reason to do them. If ur seriously gonna tell me that if Surviviors cleanse 4/5 totems, then the one that slips through the cracks means the Surviviors are toxic genrushing dick weasels who deserve every insta down and facecamp they get? Yeah no I'mma have to call that bullshit. How about this. If all 5 gens slip through the killers fingers before he can land a single hit, that guy Shouldn't get to have his "I'm entitled to these kills" perk.
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You can absolutely cleanse totems even with thrill. I've done it many times. If the killer is willing to stop doing gen patrols to find the person cleansing, they are wasting time while people pop gens. It all balances out.
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Oh you sweet thing.
If you aren't gonna call a spade a spade there's nothing more to say to you. If you think that so much as 1 dull totem slipping through the cracks means that the Surviviors are genrushing T bagging dickweeds who deserve the instadown you are handed on a silver platter, then I'm sad to tell you that you srsly need ur head examined by someone who isn't the doctor bc clearly he shocked something in there.
Killers run it bc they feel entitled to kills. They don't run it bc they know they'll get T bagged or D striked. They run it bc they feel "I deserve the kills I get on Surviviors who beat me. And this perk will make that job easier".
It's gross. And it makes me hate the killer main community, which is rly sad bc I main killer.
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Right, entitled. You big, big, brain you.
You keep telling me how I think and how I feel.
Must be working real well for you to have everyone figured out.
IF and I mean IF I run noed its because I enjoy the freak out, it makes little toxic SWF groups run for the effing hills. It keeps my games fast. If they played correctly they wouldnt be getting slugged, but no, they had to treat this as some kind of exhibition. It has nothing to do with kills. I can get Brutal Killer with no kills. I dont care about kills. Its about sending a message to any little snit who thinks they are going to be the next Toxic-Youtuber-Twitch-Lulz-personality. Run for the effing door and get out of my game.
But that is IF i use it.
Normally Its overkill on the Killers I use and I dont like running totems.
Im a Make Your Choice killer myself.
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All they need to do is slightly buff the killers, then they can nerf NOED into the ground. For example, make it so doc doesn't slow down when in treatment mode. A small buff, but not a game breaking one. Stuff like that. Then the killers will all feel like they're at a place where NOED won't feel necessary to some players.
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Would be helpful if the argument aligned with the data released by the devs. Based on the info released by the devs, 2k kill rates are above 50% even on the lowest level and worst killer, which is higher than what devs said they wanted it to be
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I dunno, I play both survivor and killer and I don't mind NOED or adrenaline as both can be countered beforehand. The former can be stopped by simply doing what you can at stealthing and avoiding the killer, as well as doing totems. They can't down you if they can't hit you. Teamwork can only help you as well, and many seem to lack this.
The latter can be stopped by the killer utterly crushing the survivors before they have a chance to finish the gens.
I'd say survivors are their own worst enemy on this one. I have observed as both sides and have found two near constants. They're either too toxic for their own good, and for some reason waste time teabagging and doing other silly things, only to end up wrecked for it. Or their loops and other strategies become quite predictable.
Also leading the killer who is good at tracking survivors to each and every pallet means others won't be able to use one when they need it, due to all or most of them already having been broken. I have also seen too many run in straight lines, or attempt to pass off a killer to someone else.
On the other hand some killers don't seem to have a game plan beyond camping or just going for the survivor that has pissed them off for some reason, which allows the others to complete objectives. This is especially a real risk if you are a camping and tunneling jerk. It is more than ok to wound and leave to go after someone else. Purposely leaving a chase can be quite beneficial.
Point is you need a strategy, but of course no one will escape or kill everyone all the time. Bad games happen
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Adrenaline is a clutch skill. Why you think 80% of survivors run it? To ne one person against 4 players and they rushgens to get themselfs healed. 4 people injured and 1 second later all 4 survivors are healed. Even enough you down someone with noed. And your going against 4 man swf. They can easily find noed. Then borowed time and body block killer. I seen it i done it. Any time i play survivor amd there is a trapper, hag, freddy, leatherface, or any other killer i cant figure out all their perks. I instintly go for totems. And when i do play with friends, i tell them to break totems. And when they dont, when i say to break totems. Noed. In the end they not going to nerf noed. It doesnt need nerfed.
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How about this as a rework
Hex: No One Escapes Death
At the beginning of the trial one dull totom will be activated. Survivors suffer the exposed effect and the killer moves at 5% faster movement speed and has a 20/25/30% attack cooldown reduction. This persist until ether the hex totom is cleansed, or if the first Generator is completed, or if the killer has hooked survivors 2/3/4 times.
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Wow, and another thread about the same with exact same arguments... Devs already said that perk is in very good state multiple times now. I don't agree with them, because its actually very weak. It creates a very good dynamic in game tho: gives choice, break totems early, or just genrush. Just like with rescues from hooks (go for rescue and risk noone doing gens or stay on gen risking noone going for save), its core concept of this game, doubts and making quick decision. This is why swf is broken, it takes less than 4 minutes to close game. 5-6 if killer is getting hooks regurarly. Total time required to prevent it (noed)) is a joke (breaking all 5 prolongs the trial by 20 seconds...) yet it still catches survivors of guard.
You see a totem, you break it, that's it. Dunno what is so hard about it. As survivor you should always assume that killer has nurses, bbq and noed.
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Nah, NOED doesn't need a nerf or change. Totem points getting buffed from 600/1000->1000/1500 is already a nerf onto NOED. Point buff alone incentivizes survivors to do totems.
As a second means of punishment i typically run NOED and blood warden together and love it. Sure you can loop me around whatever part of a broken coldwind meat shed, or huntress love house, but if your friends refuse to cleanse totems alongside the gens the whole group gets to pay for it. Just down one person, walk to an exit gate pop that big boy open and plop the lil buddy on a hook. Now anyone who wants to save their friend gets to play by another set of rules.
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how about no
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"I'm not an entitled killer. Now let me tell you about how every time I run Noed it's to teach every Survivior to not ######### with me bc this is MY game and these are MY kills."
Ingenious.
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You really are a broken record arent you?
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it should be a endgame perk and not a weak perk but ok.
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Noed is fine from a survivor perspective, its incentive to break totems and is not guaranteed at all. I see far more noeds fail to activate and that's because I make the effort to stop it. There is no excuse good enough to allow it to activate and still complain about the punishment.
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What if the killer kills 3 survivors and closes the hatch. Is it still a reward for failure for the killer and success for the survivor?
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I was going to type a nuanced analysis on the mechanics of NOED and why it's a product of poor game design, but I just don't care anymore. Let the double-digit IQ survivors get destroyed by something that is completely within their power to nullify and let the double-digit IQ killers get a victory that they didn't earn.
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"Killers in this game are too weak for the most parts, so noed is basically the bandage that makes them not lose at the end of the game. But having one perk change the outcome of the match is just a crutch. And on top of that it is not fun for either side."
Adrenaline would have to be nerfed as well then. Because not only does it heal you a health state, you also got a sprint burst.
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Really dude noed is already been nerf cuz more people cleansing cuz u gain more blood pints for cleaning dull and hex totems I rarly see any totems not being cleansed. They only probably with noes is the speed boost cuz the one shot down thing isn't too bad cuz so many perms can one shot down
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Any reason why? Just saying no dosen't add anything to the discussion.
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I see you everywhere, and you're just pure cringe.
Who cares if you run NOED and Blood Warden? This is a discussion on NOED itself, not the NOED and Blood Warden combo
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
Nah.
Devs have said, multiple times, NOED is fine. Get over it.
Besides, Adrenaline (the survivor equivalent of NOED) is a lot more common than NOED at high ranks. Maybe they should nerf the TRUE endgame crutch perk instead? :)
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shh. Surv mains will tell you it is trash and needs even a buff
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People saying adrenaline is fine and noed is a crutch clearly have never had 1-2+ people slugged (probably to avoid DS), an injured person that you are chasing, and get to watch the last gen popped by the last guy and literally everyone gets up and the guy you are chasing goes back to full and sprint bursts to the next loop. Or you are chasing someone near end game, down them, and then as your killer is doing the attack cooldown animation adrenaline goes off and the person gets back up and sprint bursts to another loop.
They are both crutch perks.
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When did I say they were toxic gen rushers? I was simply saying that survivors can opt to cleanse totems knowing there is the chance that the killer is running noed. You're clearly sensitive about the subject and I seem to have struck a nerve or something. You're putting words in my mouth though and that just isn't a good way to have a discussion :/ When you're older, you'll understand.
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