If Legion were to ever get his ability reworked, what are some ideas you would like to see?
For example, my idea was (keep in mind this is just a general idea I came up with earlier today, not getting into numbers and balancing):
change FF to make it so that when activated you burst sprinting out of a locker of your choosing (like Freddy with his new gen teleport) and then have the normal FF ability with whatever deep wounds rework makes him viable, the only thing i can think of would be that if hitting an injured survivor without the deep wounds status effect during FF, they're put into the dying state instead of just receiving the deep wounds status effect. this forces people to actually want to heal to full against him and makes sloppy more viable to help him stall
additionally give the Legion an active ability button that when activated creates a copy or (illusion if you will) of Legion that bursts sprinting out of a locker of your choosing for a set amount of distance that has its own terror radius that's a mimic of the Legions current TR (meaning perks like Monitor and Abuse will affect the copy too)
this in my opinion gives the Legion more of a fun playstyle and opens up more perk builds and also gives more of a feel like you're really playing against 4 murderers like the Legion is and not just the one of them. obviously the numbers would need to be balanced to make it fair and hopefully more fun to play against and as than current legion, but i'm not gonna get into that as i don't have a good sense of whats balanced and what isn't while only seeing it on paper
what do you guys think? Are there any other ideas out there on fun and hopefully better reworks for Legion assuming we ever get one? Or if there's any criticism to my idea i'm open to hear it
Edit: didnt mean to post this in bug reports and dont know how to change it, if a mod could move it for me that would be great, im still new to this forum
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Everyone said that the legion is so annoying to play against bcs of the moonwalk exploit, BHVR, instead of a slightly rework, they gutted him... They should have just made the Legion unable to see blood and problem solved..
I want back the old vaulting speed, the ability of stabbing the same guy with FF and actually to do something
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I unfortunately never got to play as or against old Legion. When he came out and before his rework I was taking a break from DBD so I don't really know what it was like compared to current Legion
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Legion was hella unfun to play against since they didnt have no counter play also they had a bunch of exploits like moonwalking,infinite mending and etc. But franks mixtap made them even more annoying to deal with, so I feel like they could have just fixed the exploits and changed franks mix tap so legion could've been in a much more healther spot.
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That's what I seem to see everyone else saying. Did the devs give a reasoning for nerfing him so badly or was it just out of the blue and no discussion?
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In the mid season patch notes they said"The following changes allow for direct Survivor counter-play, reduce the potential for exploiting certain game mechanics, and bring The Legion’s default attributes in-line with other Killers, all while retaining the core vision of this Killer." They wanted to put legion more in line with other killers from what I seen in the patch notes. But they overdid it as they are probably one of the weakest killers.
Heres the link to the patch notes if you wanna read them.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/57702/the-legion-update/p1?new=1
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That seems dumb to bring him in line with other killers. Wasn't he originally introduced to shake up the meta a little bit? I swear I either read that somewhere or I'm just insane. I can see why people are afraid of them overnerfing nurse though after "balancing" Legion. Thanks for linking the patch notes though I'll check them out
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Why is this in the bugs section?
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I have no idea about the Legion, I've been thinking about returning to its former strength.
and ... while the other killers can see streaks and blood while using their special power, the Legion unfortunately doesn't.
This is really ridiculous..
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I'm new to posting in this forum and accidentally posted it in bugs and don't know how to change it. At the bottom of the post I made a comment asking if a mod or someone could move it out of the bugs section
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I would be happy with feral frenzy simply being unlimited, faster (5.2 base) BUT you cannot hit sutvivors with it.
Essentially a tool for map pressure, so you can move as you desire. It wouldn't make legion strong, but better than the useless killer she is now
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Easiest fix would be bring back their normal FF Speed and Vault speed, this means the duration would need to be set back to normal too but it won't matter because we ALWAYS needed the Duration add-ons but for different reasons. So now we have the normal fast Legion who is still exactly the same because the Deep Wounds effect was nerfed meaning no moon walking and lots of counter-play except now Legion is no longer crippled by their speed.
MY REWORK(getting way out of the box for fun)---Legion starts with NO TR and does not wear a mask. This allows them to get close to Survivors and then activate their 1 time use Legion ability that puts on their mask and takes out their weapon. From here Legion has the normal FF but NO DEEP WOUNDS, the first hit wounds them but hitting them again does nothing without add-ons and still cannot activate NOED(of course). After you hit a Survivor you see the Auras of Survivors in your TR, Legion can still Vault windows and pallets.
The difference now is that Legion can go into a locker and come out of another locker as another member who has not put on their mask yet, meaning they have no TR or weapon until they activate Legion. Add-ons for FF are applied on INJURED Survivors, you can apply DW, Broken, Mangled/Hemorrhage(because it should be like this) or even slower action speed.
The whole point of this Legion is that they already have a natural ability to get everyone injured but since the add-ons only effect injured Survivors builds would consist of anti-healing with Coulro, Sloppy Butcher etc. M&A is still useful once you activate Legion AND since Legion can see Auras this means that their perk Iron Maiden is actually good on them in particular, shocking right? Survivors would hide in lockers to avoid you and when they exit we can see them scream. I still think that perk is ######### but at least it would have synergy with it's owner and get lots of use from Legion.
Other play-styles with Legion would be Endgame builds, what if you only activate 3 of the 4 members and when the Exits open you become number 4 and have no TR or weapon giving NOED a 1 time extreme boost of power. Also, I know that Joey and Susie need to be bought so base Legion has only Frank and Julie who can obviously use this ability more than once since it's a 4 usage thing in total with a 1 time use for each member. If you only have the base Legion then you still get all 4 but with only those 2.
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I just would:
Positive
-Delete this freaking stun after a missing hit. Drawbacks by every possibility are no fun, and if someone actually likes that he should be forced to play the actual Legion all day in and out^^. After a week I would speak with him again :P.
-Give the Legion his old frenzy speed back.
-Reduce the stun after frenzy to the old stuntime from the pre patch Legion.
-Give the Legion the ability back to start his frenzy whenever he wants. Just with the drawback how it was for the old Legion - aka. that you have not always your "full frenzy ready".
-Deep wound should also work in a tr.
-The old vault speed should be back. The Legion are young adults. Not a gang of grandpa's/ma's.
Negative
-Delete (and I really mean delete, no rework or what ever), the addons: "Franks Mixtape, Filthy Blade and Nasty Blade".
-Reduce the base movement speed of the Legion about 5% (maybe more).
-This Legion would still suffer under the tr and deep wound changes (besides the named 1).
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That are my first thoughts^^.
The goal of this is, to give the Legion the old hunting feeling back, so that you can have fun again while you playing with the Legion.
But as drawback we should reduce the possible damage, the Legion can deal. So the named addons should not be reworked. They just should be deleted. No matter if we look at the new addons, or how they were in the past, the named addons would be just to strong with a Legion like that.
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Changes I would do:
-When in FF, after second attack on the same target, FF doesn't switch off, BUT attack doesn't affect target in any way (no dmg and no status refresh [unless you use specific addons]) and there is no refresh of the ability's duration. However missed attacks and stuns switch FF off.
-Target you attacked while in FF gets Deep Wound effect which slows Survivors any interaction by % (how big percentage would depend on ingame balance). By interaction it's meant that repairing, mending, healing, vaulting etc. are slower. If you are healed by another survivor that doesn't have Deep Wound effect, mending and healing aren't affected by your DW effect (unless killer has specific addons making it harder to mend/heal).
-If you turn off FF earlier, you can reuse it even if ability bar isn't full (but you will have less duration if you will start from not fulled bar... just FYI). However stuns and missed attacks during FF will empty your ability bar instantly and as penalty you will have to wait for it to refresh fully in order to use the ability again.
-Speed during FF would be a little higher than now, also vaulting would be faster by 0.5 sec.
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These are just my thoughts on it. Dunno if they are good mechanicaly in terms of how game works, because I'm still newbie in game.
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That sounds like a really fun to play legion actually
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@Brok3n Ah thanks :) I was trying to keep the basics of Legion that we love while also adding in that flavor of actually being a ''Legion''.
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Totally agree. Not bashing on the devs but they didn't do a very good job at making them actually seem like a legion of 4 killers instead of the one sprinting guy we have now XD
I can see how they tried to make it seem like it was multiple killers by trying to force Legion into a spot where he has to get chain hits on multiple survivors, but all that did was put him in a bad spot and they would be much better off and feel like much more of a threat that could come from anywhere at any time if they had a locker teleport. People have been asking for a killer with a locker teleport forever now and if they can do a gen teleport a locker teleport shouldn't be too hard
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I posted an update idea of mine here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/78308/an-update-to-legion-a-buff-to-feral-frenzy-and-a-rework-to-deep-wound
I like the concept of current Frenzy, so I didn't "rework" it more than I just buffed it, but I did rework Deep Wound because it's just a garbage status effect as of right now.
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I had always hoped he/they could throw their knives. Yes it’s another huntress, but we could use another ranged killer.
I don’t know how they could balance it, I am not good at that, but I think it’d be a neat idea.
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They could make it that frenzy attacks drain a bit of frenzy instead of ending it, also it doesnt have to be 50% attack cooldown reduction, 20% - 30% might be okay too. That multiple hits on the same target dont decrease DW anymore seems wrong too.
If we wanted to rework them into another killer, possibly a "multiple bodies" or "doll" type because "Legion" (duh), we could copy HELL EMBER from IdentityV a bit.
Edit: i dont own legion because i thought them a bit dull on release. So my opinion might not be relevant.
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No, because i speak for the majority of the playerbase that tunnelling a survivor down with Legion's FF is annoying to face
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
I'd agree with these changes apart from the first one, you could outplay old Legion at a pallet or vault and they'd miss but then immediately swing and hit you again, there was no counterplay involved, he'd miss and then hit again anyway.
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
Every opinion is relevant. It is just sometimes a bit frustrating that some people tend to listen to rumors, or streamers instead of the people that have the most experience with the Legion - aka. the Legion mains.
So don't let you ever tell something different.
What your frenzy idea matters, it is 1 that could possible work. With deep wounds would I be a bit carefully, because of possible nerf threads that would automatically follow to every deep wounds change, as long as that would be a buff for dw.
Edit: @Chaddad2169
Please don't use real life illnesses in this context. I am sure you can also find other words to describe your frustration.
The pallet situation you could actually use very good against the Legion. There was a time window there the Legion could not hit you. If you have make the pallet dance with the Legion in this time window, you were safe and for the case, the Legion had just stay at the end of the pallets, because he hoped that you jump then in his arms... In this case you could just move in the other direction.
But that only has worked against Legion without frenzy duration addons. Franks Mixtape as example. If the Legion had this addon, you was doomed, that is true.
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Here you go:
-3 second stun, at this point, I would rather be hit by a pallet in Feral Frenzy. 4 seconds discourages you from chasing and gives survivors enough distance to get to the 100th loop and t-bag you.
-Keep Deep Wound affected by terror radius, but mending is too weak anyway. It should have skillchecks. Also, it should have debuffs but make the mending timer longer to make the debuffs force the survivors to mend instead of pushing through gens.
-Feral Frenzy should last long enough so that you can sprint half the map distance without having to stab anyone. HillyBilly and Spirit can do this, so why not Legion?
-Feral Frenzy should also have a much shorter cooldown, I find Spirit to be more fun because her power cooldown is short and actually useful in chases.
-Increase the Feral Frenzy speed and vault distance, gosh it feels so slow and survivors can just vault one pallet to t-bag you and have so much distance already. (Again, good thing I killed that Kate and she DCed >:(
-Feral Frenzy should also be able to give you double break actions and double locker check speed, helps gen patrolling to be more efficient.
-Missed attacks should no longer deplete the power gauge completely, leave half of it.
-Can activate Feral Frenzy when at least 50% of the bar is full
-Keep normal attacks decreases power gauge and missed attack consequences, but only if Feral Frenzy can decrease the Power gauge once again. Or make it so that you have to hit all remaining survivors with Feral Frenzy once to be allowed to down the timer further with power, so it is skill based and gives extreme map pressure.
-See blood again in Feral Frenzy, it is way too easy to lose Legion players now that blood is gone.
-Keep 115% movement speed. This is a first step to make Legion fun to play with.
(Bonus: I recorded this match to try to show how underwhelming Legion is, but the Exit Gate glitch just had to happen, and I messed around in the middle and tried to play overweight Legion)
Sorry for Audio, and sorry if it is a requirement to censor names, I will remove video link if that is a rule.
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Also, does anyone know if the devs have said anything about Legion in recent Q&As?
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Frosty eyes without NOED? What am I watching
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@Ember_Hunter all I know is nobody asked about Legion last Q&A. Don't know about the Q&A before that one.
@Divinitye9 that seems like a fun ability, always thought throwing knives would look better and make more sense, but they would have to give it its own little gimmick, and then most likely change huntress too, otherwise they would be the same killer, with one being outright better than the other
Also sorry for the quote and mention, accidentally added the quote and don't know how to remove it
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I have Frosty Eyes on all my killers to waste their time >:)
I remember Peanits said that Legion was mentioned, but I forgot to ask what was spoken about Legion. He also mentioned Piggy and Bubba as well. will they finally get love? :D
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@Ember_Hunter time to go hunting for the Q&A that talked about Legion lol
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@Ember_Hunter I found it. It was in the nightmare rework Q&A. Someone asked if they are looking at buffing Legion in the near future and the response was "we are planning on looking into their add-ons in the near future" they said primarily looking at their status effect add-ons to be on hit rather than on the second FF hit. No ETA at the time of writing because you know how these Q&A's work :)
Link to Q&A recap here:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/77678/live-q-a-recap-july-25-2019
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Aww....so if it is just addons, they really do still think Legion basekit is currently fine :(
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Sadly yes, they think base legion is fine *super sad face*
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I have a friend who thinks Legion is OP. Just wait until they realize the loops, 4 second stuns, and gen rush they will face. Just don't say I didn't warn them :(
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Lol that sucks. I feel bad for him because general survivor consensus in grey and yellow ranks is he's OP and "disgusting" (to quote a yellow rank swf I went up against a while back) yet as soon as you hit high green ranks he suddenly becomes the most laughable killer ever. I've literally had more success just m1-ing and mind gaming loops at that rank
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I honestly want him to move faster stab people like crazy and take out the one chance stab
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Kill with friends
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I don't think that they think that the base Legion is fine.
Imo, they just don't like to spent any more time on the Legion. Simple as that. They have guess, while they doing everything survivors have wish, that after that it goes silence around the Legion.
But... They had make a big mistake. A mistake that is so huge, that you need to make a facepalm, to just stay sane after thinking about it.
They have forget or ignore the Legion mains by the whole patch. The people that spent the most time with the Legion.
This addon reworks/fixes/whatever is also again a short minded solution for a problem that will go on after that.
Not every Legion main, but the ->majority<- like to have ->fun<- again with the Legion and until they finally have come to the conclusion that they have something to do about that, it will go on and on and on...
If they have thought that the Legion playerbase can be ignored, or easily tricked... Well then they have make a huge mistake.
Post edited by Talmeer on2 -
I actually have a Legion Overhaul idea, I'll give the gist of it here:
- All Legion members are in the match, you control one while the other three are 'idle' within a set radius around you
- The Idle Legion do NOT attack survivors unless there is a addon equipped with the express purpose of allowing it, instead, basekit allows them to just give a loud noise event when a survivor enters their line of sight, to which they sprint away.
- You play as the Legion you choose to be in the killer menu, whoever you are not will be idle.
I.E: You chose Joey then Frank will be idle
- Each Legion member has their own unique stats, and you can switch between each of them, this process takes time and the switch is made from YOUR current position. This is liable to change.
- Frank and Julie CANNOT enter Feral Frenzy, but their hits have a chance of causing Deep Wounds and giving the Killer Instinct effect. They both move around 115% and generally have a 32 meter radius.
- Susie and Joey CAN enter Feral Frenzy, playing like Pre Nerfed Legion but with around the same changes as now. Susie has the lowest speed and the lowest terror radius.
- Frank, Julie, and Susie cannot break pallets but they can vault them which gives the same amount of points as if they broke the pallet, can only be used once for the points. Vaulting speed differs among them with Susie having the fastest vault and Joey being the only one to break the pallet normally.*
*(This is because he wants to look intimidating.)
- Addons reworked! They would no longer have the same effects, that means Frank's Mix Tape and Fuming Mixtape.
- (Optional) The killer menu with the Legion selected has all four laying around with their Idle animations.
Lemme know if you have any questions.
And yes, I know this is way too complicated for BHVR to do atm. Or at all.
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That really does sound complicated XD
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@Ember_Hunter But it's a worthwhile investment to shake the meta up.
Which is why I know it won't even be looked at by the devs.
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The more I think about all the "splitting ideas" I have read, the more I can go along with that.
Reminds me a bit on Matrix where the machines (or how ever they were called) could use every civilian nearby to them, but as you said before - it will not come.
The most likely scenario is imo, that they sooner or later undone a few things, that have gone to far with the Legion patch, and well... there they have the free choice since a ton has gone to far.
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As long as it is not a disqyusing survivor killer. High ranks and swf will shut down those killers.
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Legion is not that bad ,they only need qol changes .
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Many of them. Mostly buffs to add too.
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Cool link to check out ^ :]
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