The problem with DBD balance isn't "Gen Rush" or "OP Killers". I Know the problem and the fix!
I am a survivor main, and switched to killer. I've noticed that against SWF teams I get demolished. My only fighting chance is bringing in the OP items (prayer beads, ultra rare mori, etc.) and suddenly it feels like a fair game.
Here's the true issue:
The game play itself is balanced towards 4 solo players trying to play together with asymmetric information. This doesn't work when half the games are SWF who use voice chat (reducing issues with "who is going for the unhook" "where is the killer" "I'm being camped" "I saw a lit totem in position X" "I used pallet at shack").
And on the other hand, against 4 solo players, killers with broken addons and ultra rare moris destroy the game.
Solution? Make ultra rare addon's and offerings more common, and let them only be usable against SWF teams. I never feel bad getting one shot hatchet or mori'd in 4 man swf, because I know otherwise we would have a huge advantage.
What do you guys think?
Comments
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Even though it would be helpful for killers, the same applies to Survivors.
So if you increase the ultra rare Addons to 75%
That means Killers will have a 75% chance of getting one.
And Survivors would have a 75% chance of getting one.
Meaning it would be the same game-play, just more agonizing.
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This isn’t fair to casual players at all. It’d leave a bad taste in their mouth, and make them not want to play it.
Alternative Solution:
Both sides need to learn how to play around eachothers mechanics, and not be afraid to know that they’re going to lose.
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More Insta heals? Why it seems more counter productive
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Id personally like to see a Rainbow 6 style of game play, where survivours take on a particular roll each game, in efforts to curb 3 or 4 survivours from all running the same perks.
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Like I've said before, if the SWF squad is going to act like a unit they should be treated like one:
- Each member of an SWF can equip 4 perks like normal, however, at the start of the trial 1 perk is locked for every other survivor in their party.
- (Duos each have 3 usable perks to start; teams of 3 each have 2; a squad of 4 each get 1.)
- As members of their party are killed or sacrificed, additional perks are unlocked.
- The sequence of unlocking is always from the first perk slot to the last.
- (A 4-man SWF survivor would unlock the perk in Perk Slot 2 when the first member dies, but won't unlock Perk Slot 4 until he is the last remaining survivor. This allows SWF to at least tailor their perk unlock progression (perhaps allowing the change of playstyle from altruistic to stealthy as things get worse).)
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Casual players are stuck in brown/yellow ranks getting camped and tunneled to death by killers who don't know what map pressure is. Bad taste, and reasons to not continue playing, already exist.
Post edited by Nos37 on4 -
Not all SWF groups are super coordinated SWAT Teams.
My friends and I for example, we just play for fun and 75% of the time we end up all dead, we have mostly a great time anyway.
As a killer I have come across some bad, bad SWF groups myself. Like I hook one of them and in less than 4 minutes I have the rest of them crawling on the floor next to the hooked one kind of bad.
The realy hard part if noone escape is to keep up with their insults at the chat. Sometimes I can't make fun of every one of them, I can't respond to all of them in time and it's hard to maintain the conversations :-S
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swf was and will be always broken. deal with it, because it will never change.
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@RoKrueger You don't have to be a SWAT team to have a huge advantage over the killer. When I play SWF, we don't bring items and (except for BT) we also usually don't run those perks which are often considered "too strong".
We don't run strong builds and I would never consider us a SWAT team. Yet the killers have a hard time and usually lose.
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Good for you. You win some, you lose some. Sometimes you get a Nurse that hits you after every blink and some times you get a Doctor that never leaves Treatment mode.
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(Flashbacks of impossible skill doc)
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Now that's just mean. Let the killers have fun at every rank ;-)
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So you basically just said that killers should learn to loose, because survivors got the advantage? Claps on u.
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I don't know about the numbers, I enjoy the animations :-)
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With me they get to experience what is like being the first victim of a Slasher film. LOL.
Chill. I think you can't go below rank 15 once you are past that, is that right? And Im not a smurf, so new players will be fine playing with other new players.
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You've not explained anything we didn't already know as a community. There are countless threads about the damage wrought by SWF. The game wasn't made with it in mind and it was added after launch as there was a big call to be able to play with your friends. Making addons and offerings only work against SWFs would cripple the game. Also, you need to understand that not all addons are created equal. Most killers don't have ultra rares that match up to iri hatchet, tuft of hair, tombstone. Most are very bad in fact. Then you have Nurse, Billy, Bubba running around with no Ultra rares at all. Nurse and Billy are so capable that they don't need them. Bubba on the other hand is just worse off in general by default than Billy.
SWFs beat killers running Ebony Mori on a consistent basis. Ebony only works because a killer gets to snowball early on, but an SWF playing optimally will fly through the gens before the first down occurs and open the gate. If you're not using some sort of one shot then they are saving their teammate and trading bodyblocks till they get out.
In short, this is bad idea that won't do anything except kill the game.
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Please enlighten us! What is that "reality of things" you mention?
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.....ok. I will let others reply to that, you have left me speechless ;-)
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I have no friends so I play casual and most of the killers think I am in a SWF, while that's not the case...
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Already stop this tryharding SWF-Squads are so common in games. Thats wrong. Even though you cant punish peolple playing an multiplayer online game together.
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I said BOTH sides need to learn to lose. It’s a two way street.
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So tell me, when i play wraith and i go against red ranks, how should i learn to play against the infinites on Coldwind farm? There's nothing to learn, you just loose. In that case it wouldnt matter how good the killer plays, it just matters how good the survivor plays. Thats why i like to play survivor. :)
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While I can understand this, I’m just saying that you can’t really win ‘em all. That expectation is just unrealistic. Additionally, there’s no shame in leaving a survivor when they go to an infinite.
I’m going to be blatantly honest; I don’t have a lot of counter-evidence to go off of, since I play Spirit at purple ranks, rather than red. But, I do see your point.
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Im playing Nurse at red ranks so i got your point too. I just love the diversity of DbD, playing the same killer every game is boring.
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Actually SWF was always planned for the game since the start - they've said so multiple times on the Dev streams. The game wasn't BALANCED with it in mind. But you cant say it wasnt made with it in mind...
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I admit that I'm really killer sided and like some other pwople can be really stubborn with certain topics (looping started as exploit for example)
Swf AND Cwf (Communicate, not cheat how many would assume) Do NOT have in-game differences to solo survivors. They mechanically function the very same way.
Swf grants a general knowledge of the behaviour or skill level of your teammates, and longer preparation time as you can already chat in the lobby before looking for a killer. This stillm s a huge factor in removing randomness and uncertanity for survivors.
Cwf adds real time information exchange and strategizing. This boost survivor potential power even higher, regardless of the Cwf group size.
Any method of debuffing, restricting or nerfing only swf/cwf will only cause the volatile part of those survivors to lobbydodge for "4 randoms who are friends" again. Which was the problem thast spawned swf in the first place.
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Survivor who switched to killer, gets destroyed by swf.
Well yeah. You're a survivor who is going into this with the subtle mindset that survivors play like you. Probably not super sweaty swf.
Plus, those sweaty swf are like, what, 1/2% of the lobbies?
Most swf are trash because they fool around and play overly altruistic.
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Most killers just feel victimized and want to pretend that they're only getting stomped because they're fighting highly-coordinated SWf groups every game.
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"Half the games are swf using voice chat." I'll call b.s. Only 5% of all games are 4 man swf's, and another 10% are 3 man's. That means that 85% of the time, you're going up against a mix of duos and solo's. It's really not as bad as a lot of killer mains like you want to believe it is. Sometimes you just get outplayed, sometimes people like myself run an ally aura reading perk just to know where everyone is, depending on my playstyle that day.
Also more pink offerings/add-ons? That's a terrible idea. Both sides would just be more miserable.
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It is not just the sweaty swf that is a problem. The communication aspect, sharing knowledge, is a huge advantage. Factor in coordination, and it becomes broken.
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The only fix to this is to add in game voice chat. Not ducking about with "let's do this for only swf" or complaining that you always "loose"
Tighten the duck up, shut the duck up and deal with it.
Also if you mean lose and not loose, well you're playing above your rank. Drop down
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Are you for real?
You are aware that low rank killers that play against swf are already at a disadvantage, even without voicechat? its not unusual for a rank 14 killer to be paired against a rank 16 survivor and his red-ranked friends, where the killer cant keep up with their experience. On top of that, they have voicechat. and on top of that, the killer should lose his ultra rares, while 3/4 of the survivors still have them?
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I play both survivor and killer, usually killer more (Mainly Hag and Spirit.) And honestly It's not as bad as people make it out to be. I can usually 3K/4K at red ranks unless it's SWF and they are very coordinated. Even then, I can black pip or hold my own fairly well and they'd have to be amazing. I'm usually rank 1/2 killer and survivor as well. It's not as inbalanced as people think, red rank 4 man SWF is tough and has the advantage but if you play top 4 killers you can black pip.
Killer mains are a bit exaggatory acting like as if when you see a red rank swf that you need to just drop your controller because the swf are like omnipotent gods. I will say, if you aren't playing top killers then I get that. I just think more killers should be viable but in any game there is gonna be viable and unviable things and a meta.
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Wat
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Oh, so as a solo survivor I will know when the killer is camping; when to go for a save or work a gen; the general location of hex totems, traps, used pallets, nearly-completed gens, the hatch, slugged survivors (Knockout blindness), sabotaged hooks, unopened chests, and the killer's belongings (traps); all without having to equip a single perk?
Awesome! That means I no longer have to equip Empathy, Bond, Small Game, Kindred, Windows of Opportunity, Plunderer's Instinct, nor have to bring a Rainbow Map or a Map with a Black Cord.
So how do I get these benefits!? Is it in Settings? Do I have to buy something from the Store?
/sarcasm
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You totally dissed me by tellin me the exact same things I just said. You must be the wittiest person infront your screen.
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Totally agree. This is what will kill this game sadly
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If you don't balance around a feature you're wanting to add to the game then it is by definition the game wasn't made with the feature in mind. Inaction in the planning and development phases to actively include balancing measures for a feature that could very easily tip your game ass over tea kettle is bad design.
So, let me ask you this: Are you defending them on the basis that added a feature without prior planning past just having it in the game? Or are you defending them on the basis of they knowingly made a very sloppy design choice from beginning to not have SWF be balanced in any way?
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I can agree on this one. I mean there is always at the end 4 survivors against 1 killer.
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