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You're Mad At Decisive For The Wrong Reason
I see so many people crying about DS being too OP still. Their only argument is that they see "every" survivor using it.
Let's think on that for a second...
DS is an anti-tunneling perk. Nothing else. So if "every" survivor is using it and you keep getting angry about that; it only means two things.
- You tend to tunnel quite often if you're hit with DS as much as you say.
- Most people tend to tunnel quite often if "every" survivor feels the need to run it.
Comments
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I main killer and you 110% right
31 -
DS is not just an anti-tunneling perk, though.
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My only issue is when it's used as a safety net to destroy your trap setups or go in a locker for free invincibility or free escapes , other than that I dont hate the perk just dislike how people use it for more than what was intended
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Decisive Strike is becoming less of an "Anti-Tunnel" perk and more of a "1 minute of Killer immunity". Depending on the killer, in one minute's time I can potentially down and hook another survivor, re-find the careless DS Survivor and question if he's even worth going after knowing his DS is still up.
I've had DS survivors sit on generators in my face because they know their DS is still up. Or the classic hop in a locker. Or just otherwise play like an idiot because of a single, killer immunity perk.
Borrowed Time is doing a much better job of being a fair "anti-tunnel" perk. 30-45 seconds for DS would be adequate, considering it doesn't have the "unhooking within Killer's Terror Radius" pre-requisite or 15 second window that BT does.
27 -
Down a person
Hook this person
Down an other person
Hook this person
Down the first person
Get hit by DS, because I play rly good Spirit
DS should be an anti tunnel perk, but its not an anti tunnel perk.
Because the unhooked survivor can just unhook an other person in the killer TR
and then the killer got hit by DS.
The killer get hit by DS without tunneling.
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Ds is perfectly fine. Its in a good spot and is no longer a get out of jail free card for simply getting caught.
If any killer tunnels someone within a minute of them being unhooked then no sympathy for them. Or if you really like to tunnel and fear DS that much then leave them slugged til DS wears off.
You wanted a DS nerf. You got it. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.
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If it deactivated once you jump in a locker it'd be fine, this way it's obnoxious and unfun.
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What about those times you know they're in a locker but can't take them out due to ds? Why should I be punished for that when they went in the locker? What about those times where you just happen to run into that survivor after hooking someone else and forget that they might even have DS active because you didn't tunnel?
For an "anti-tunnel" perk, DS gives a lot of leeway for what it considers tunneling.
6 -
People are mad at DS because its not an anti-tunneling perk, its 60 seconds of immunity, your post is wrong.
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As other people said, it's not quite an anti-tunneling perk, it's a perk that also helps against tunneling.
Because killer can be hit with it even if there was no tunneling, survivor is healed and doing some objective.
Plus many survivors feel that if you don't get to hit with DS, it's a waste of a perk, so they put themselves in danger as much as possible in order for a perk to be useful, worst thing about that it actually doesn't involve any trade off / risk.
So it's more of "immunity to being hooked for one minute" than anti-tunneling perk.
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Why are you tunneling the person anyway?
If you're not tunneling them, then being in a locker is of no advantage to them.
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The amount of people getting angry at this thread just proves my point.
There are too many people tunneling.
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I always save my Decisive for end game, it is more useful when you get a free escape after getting unhooked
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@Zixology the problem, is that the timer on it is ridiculous, 60 seconds is a massive amount of time, so much so that it either gives the survivor invisibility to do a generator for a minute and combine this with say deliverance is very OP, or you chase someone else and come across the survivor again and down them, just to be caught in the end seconds of DS. either that or survivors follow you and tank a hit for another survivor, knowing full well they can just get a free escape. even worse at end game.
now, cause it is a meta perk, imagine multiple survivors running it. its still OP, it still needs changes.
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DS only rewards Survivors who face a tunneling Killer.
So don't tunnel the DS user, don't tunnel anyone IN-GENERAL.
Simple...
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It's not though. Think about it.
If you're on a hook(unable to play the game), finally get off the hook, only to be put back on in less than 60 seconds of being able to play, you're not going to want to play the game anymore.
You didn't even get to play the game. You just showed up, got tunneled to death, and wasted your time.
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Why are you chasing the guy who was just wasting his life on a hook (tunneling) instead of going after the other guy who unhooked them?
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If you've gone after the person who just got unhooked then stand in front of the locker and either wait a minute, or wait for them to jump out and slug them if you want to tunnel them that badly. If you just happen to accidentally run into the same person who just got saved within 60 seconds, again slug them and wait out the timer.
You have options for those 60 seconds.
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You've automatically assumed he chased him. Despite it was said it's not an anti-tunneling perk and was explained why. On contrary, I can say that only people with bad imagination see that perk as anti-tunneling.
8 -
You literally said that the only argument given against DS is that "they see every survivor using it".
People are refuting your claim. Don't you think it's a bit childish to plug your ears and call everyone who disagrees with you "angry"? Why even make this topic if you can't handle opposing views?
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Because I've already downed and hooked his buddy and the DS user decided to get caught again within the time it took for me to down and hook someone else and go look for another survivor. IE the DS user played like an idiot (again) and got rewarded for it.
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The amount of dodging the OP is doing to avoid the concerns brought up in this thread would make Piccolo proud.
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The only thing that I dislike about this perk right now is that you can use it even when Killer is not tunneling.
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Ah yes, the good ol' count 60 seconds each time someone gets unhooked.
If a survivor plays stupid with DS and goes into a locker it should still be possible to pull them out without having DS activate. It isn't a counter to wait 60 seconds for the timer to run out and grab them.
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Agreed, even having the option to immediately drop them after pulling from a locker would be preferable.
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well, you did get to play the game otherwise you wouldn't be on the hook in the first place. Its not fair that the killer isnt able to hit that survivor for a full minute, in 60 seconds you can get almost a full generator done. and if its saved until EGC like some people do, its a free escape.
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If you down and hook someone else it should deactivate for the survivor imo
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It does suck though when you dont tunnel and do get hit because in 60 seconds you have downed someone else and found them. I mean it sucks cuz you get stunned, but your usually in a winning position at that point
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If a survivor plays stupid, emphasis on stupid, and jumps in a locker then leave them in the locker. They're not doing gens. If you really want them that badly then wait them out. No different than waiting for it to wear off if you slug them.
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Not a good Nurse, but I have met a few and played against a few. A good Nurse will have not only the person that saves the survivor, and the survivor was unhooked downed within the 60 seconds. Closer to around 30 maybe 45 depending on how good they are, and under 30 if they are running make your choice. That extra time while waiting on DS to run out is more than enough for them the be healed.
Similarly, while it is nowhere near THAT efficient, I run Make Your Choice on Huntress. Logic is that when the save happens, if I am in close proximity, return to the area where they were hooked, hatchet the one who was saved, and M1 the now exposed survivor who saved them. I can do that and hook the person I hit with M1 in the time it takes DS to run out.
It isn't a matter of 'just don't tunnel', its something that should change about the perk.
Personal opinion, make DS like it was before, but with a few new rules for it.
1. DS will become available to use after first hook/unhook process. (Yes, people who get camped will be salty, but that allows teammates time to do 3 gens the entire time they are camping you.)
2. If you have DS active and the killer dribbles/drops you when the skill check has begun, you will immediately escape the killers grasp with a momentary stun (stun length of enduring pre-nerf) and keep your DS.
Alternative. Be granted 150% movement for 2 seconds with no stun.
Alternative to this rule overall. Allow Enduring to change the stun time and keep the skill check upon being picked up. (This would not include locker or gen grabs. Being grabbed at a window will still allow you to use DS as you were actually attempting to escape)
3. DS will become unavailable after the end game collapse has started. (The Entity wants blood, and it sees your plan Laurie)
Basically, if you can go the whole game without getting hooked, you are a good player, take your win and don't try to be super altruistic with using DS as your crutch of "oh they can't stop me."
These are my opinions to better balance the perk, constructive criticism is welcome. I honestly hate DS as it is now even as a killer main, just for the sheer fact all killers have to do is slug and just wait out the timer. They nerfed the perk way too hard. I honestly didn't even feel it needed a nerf to begin with.
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It's very different. Otherwise people wouldn't bother going into lockers.
Slugged people 99% of the time need someone else to go help them.
People in lockers just get out when you leave
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No, that's a bad approach. Slugging lets you switch for a guaranteed amount of time while a slugged person is recovering. Waiting out doesn't let you an option to switch without letting a person in a locker to get back to the objective. If you want to punish person in a locker ALWAYS take a DS hit. It removes DS from them, so they can't use it later, and if you're lucky you can down them again quickly enungh (if they couldn't utilize that 5 secodn stun to make a distance).
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Oh. And just an overall statement about getting tunneled, unless the killer is facecamping/camping/right there when you get unhooked. Just get better at running lols. Break that bois ankles, look around on a hook to see the nearest pallet, nearest window. Just git gud at running killers
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It is different though. By slugging someone, you immobilize them and prevent them from doing anything without help from another survivor (or perk). This forces other survivors to waste time going to pick up the slug which means they're not doing generators.
With DS though, you can't immobilize them. Once you leave the vicinity they're free to go. No penalty for them or their teammates.
The easiest fix for this would be that DS doesn't trigger on locker grabs or that if you pick a survivor from a locker you have enough time to drop them on the ground before DS has a chance to take effect.
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Oh. Before I forget, another overall statement.
Just bring an Ebony Mori, can't use DS if the second you get saved you die.
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Id jusy like to say that "tunneling" is a made up thing that killers consider the best option. So to even suggest that its a anit-tunneling perks is literally saying its an anti-best choice for the killer perk
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Then don't go after the person who just got hook saved. Even if they jump into a locker. You're asking for your cake and eating it, too. You have one of two choices, don't go after the person who just got saved, even if you just accidentally come cross them again, or if you want them that badly then suck it up and wait out the DS.
End of the day its simply not picking up someone who just got unhooked for 60 seconds. Not unreasonable by any stretch of the imagination. Proof positive that the complaints against it show that even with a nerf some people can never be satisfied.
I think some people just want every half way decent perk to get the MoM treatment where they are rendered utterly worthless.
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Which isn't actually a bad thing. Altering rulesets makes every game different... well, until perks become mandatory. hex: ruin and hex: noed do the same for survivors, they force survivors do something aside from gens. Otherwise they wouldn't have a reason, unless feeling like risking time for extra BP.
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Look at all these tunneling killers complaining about DS. If you don't want to be hit with it then sod off and chase someone else instead of the poor sap who just got saved. Go run make your choice and chase their rescuer if you love going straight back to hook to get an easy down.
DS is awesome now. The way its causing all this whining means its doing its job right. The tunnelers are feeling the sting. You done good, devs. This is the kind of reaction you want.
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So which perk is required to leave a locker without the assistance of another Survivor?
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I get hit by DS after i hooked two other people LMAO. I'm clearly tunneling tho.
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Saying D.Strike is just an anti-tunnel perk is extremely disingenuous.
Its 60 seconds of the Survivor being able to just do anything they want and the Killer cant touch them.
And during endgame, its literally just a free escape that the Killer can do nothing about.
If they do nothing, the Survivor just runs out the exit.
If they slug, the Survivor crawls out the exit.
If they pick up the Survivor, they get stunned and the Survivor runs out.
In many situations the Killer is forced to interact with the DS user, so just saying "lmao dont tunnel" is incredibly idiotic.
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As Killer I always never run into DS. I run into it, when I am in a very comfortable spot and 100% can take the DS.
As Survivor, I am at the point where I dont play without DS. Usually before I prestige a Character, I use the bigger Bloodpoint Offerings. But with two characters, I simply did not care recently, because I had no DS. So I got tunneled and was not able to use DS, because I did not have it. So what happened? I got tunneled again after the next Unhook, because the Killer knew I dont have DS.
So yeah, I feel its necessary, sadly.
Also, funny thing: When DS expires, the Killer will not notice that he did not have any problems with DS, because it did not get triggered. But yeah, usually EVERY Survivor is running it and EVERYTIME it will activate, because apparently Survivors have more than 4 Perks and DS has infinite time./s
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It's nice to see that, currently, you and 9 other users are completely ignorant as to the actual issues that people are having with DS.
6 -
If I'm hooking people really fast but the Survivors are unhooking really fast (ex: Hook trades in the basement) as well then it is plausible for all 4 Survivors to have DS active at once.
Is going after literally anyone tunneling here?
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And simply hitting the same Survivor twice in a row is not necessarily tunneling.
If I hook someone. Leave and then they get unhooked. If the next person I run into happens to be the unhooked Survivor then hitting them isn't tunneling, it's just normal play.
Tunneling is actively going after the same Survivor to the exclusion of the others. So if someone was unhooked in my face then there are 2 Survivors and I can chose which one to face.
Downing the unhooker or trying to down both is not tunneling.
Downing the unhooked if the unhooker runs to a strong loop but the unhooked does not is not tunneling.
Downing the Unhooked if he goes to a strong loop when the Unhooker does not is tunneling.
Downing the Unhooked when they both run to equally strong loops is a gray area. But if done multiple times to the same Survivor it is tunneling.
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I don't see any problem with decisive except the endgame if you hate decisive that bad then don't slug and just eat the stun
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Good idea. All other grabs can be avoided by simply lunging, even a short lunge. If a survivor manages to bait a killer into grabbing them off a gen or vault or something that's fair play, but with a locker there is no options besides "put them on your shoulder" or "leave them there non-downed".
Should be possible to just insta-drop someone, and the devs could see if there's any way to fix the old "invalidate flashlight saves by insta-dropping" thing that made them change it in the first place as that was pretty silly.
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First if like to point out something that's was ignored. Survivors do like to play super cocky when they have DS, because they need to use it or it's essentially a wasted perk slot. This guy was right^^.
Also, I play trapper 99% of my Killer games so here's is something that is extremely annoying:
A survivor gets unhooked. That survivor immediately, sometimes on purpose, hits a traps nearby after I chase the rescuer. Now, should I let my trap be wasted? ######### no if I'm not about to get the other guy down. Every Trapper main knows that the easier target is the one you go for in nearly all situations. I know it's not nice, but I'm trying to win as well. Instead of getting hit by DS, I usually just proxy the area. It gives them a chance and I don't get stabbed in the dick. But then again, if it's near the last gen, I might be less nice cause I've seen enough adrenaline plays. Now I'm just in a ######### position. Risk running to the last gen and it being completed (adren on downed guy) or wait the DS out and hook and risk a gen being completed and still have DS in play after a save or eat the DS and risk (adren) survivor being fullhealed with a speed boost. So yes, at times DS can be crippling.
On a separate note, Survivor mains act like killers don't have to deal with bullshit too and say everything is tunneling. Though, it's a little unfair to generalize so broadly. I'm trying to win, and you or your team put me in a position where you are still the best bet to target, sorry.
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i am only mad at this perk when one survivor gets rescued and then just deadhards past me to farm a second survivor off another hook and then both have DS.
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