God Loops and Dev Priority
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What? There is np counter to loops like the window loop of the Ironworks map, all you can do is chase a survivor three times around that loop until the vault gets blocked. Also, a 1 minute chase is if anything average and not even that good for a killer, since gens can be done quite fast.
Maps don't need these ridiculously safe loops that take no skill since you are just runing around that same loop without being in any risk that you might get hit by the killer.
Maps need these ridiculously safe window loops to be altered so survivors at least can't run killers around those loops three times, need more mindgameable pallet loops and then just more pallets in general. That's the plan of the devs. Have more pallets on a map, but more mindgameable ones and not as many safe ones, and not have these safe vault loops that can be looped until the entity blocks the vaults. Of course some safe pallet loops are still fine, as long as there aren't too many.
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use bamboozle, like their are perk and powers that help like trapper or body blocking hag to end loops like that its as simple as thats
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Perks should never be solution for game's core problem! Jesus…
And sure because every killer likes to play Trapper and Hag just to prevent random generated infinities :D
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I completely agree. They did a mass map fix up ages ago to make less abusive loops with lots of windows, yet somehow a few of the worst just snuck through untouched.
There's plenty of maps that are fun and fair without psuedo-infinites that show it would be more than fair to fix these ones.
The people arguing that it's somehow "skill" to beat people when all game is just "I ran to the Wretched Shop loop, I'm invincible for 5 gens now" are just talking out of their ass because they'd prefer running around a square they cannot physically be caught on than actually learn to run in a proper chase.
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Some perks were made specifically for that reason. Some perks are made to fix solution people complain about like for example people complained about gen rushing so they added ruin. And its not just trapper or hag, thoses were examples like nurse doesnt have this problem neither spirit because she can silent phase. Who except for u says Perks should never be solution for game's core problem. The devs may have that intent, they add new perks to counter other perks to fix some problem people are having and to make somethings more fun. They didnt just a add a new perk because they need more stuff. Also its not a core problem since spirit, hag, trapper, nurse and other perks can counter it easily, its probably a core problem for noobs who are like grey ranks. Thoses are the only people i see complaining about loops and that like pro players dont have this problem because they know how to counter these plays
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It's especially problematic because survivors have an essentially unlimited amount of pallets on most maps in addition to a very strong loop they can get to from any part of the map if they take a hit. I know it's not literally unlimited, but realistically, the games are over at red ranks before you put a significant dent in the amount of pallets. It's easy to say "Just don't chase the Ironworks Window", but if those survivors are on comms, I guarantee you every one of them is running to that window once they realize you don't want to chase it.
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That's just awful, honestly. I shouldn't be forced to use Bamboozle just because certain maps have these terribly designed window loops that are safe spots for survivors, if I don't always want to just leave survivors as soon as they get to that safe spot.
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yeah that fine, you do not have to use it, you can as well use other killers but stop complaining or saying they need to be changed if you arent willing to use your equipment at hand like for example dont complain about gen rushing if you dont have ruin on. Perks, killers, power add ons and offerines were design to help prevent things like god loops, add new fun stuff and so both survivor and killer had perk can could counter each other. If you chose not to use that then its fine but if you dont use it dont complain about stuff being op.
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Didn't think this thread would still be kicking.
I think you're missing the point here. I was saying that god loops / safe zones on the map are quite easily fixable, but for some reason they are not being fixed. It doesn't make that much sense that there are minor tweaks that would greatly improve the balance of certain maps, yet BHVR hasn't made these fixes yet. It wouldn't be much work for their team and it'd get them brownie points with the playerbase.
Also, I don't know who you watch, but the "pro" players I've seen complain or laugh about the strength of the loops I mentioned all the time. Everyone here I think knows that it's stupid to chase a survivor into such a safe zone, and "pro" killers deal with these maps by simply giving up that portion of the map.
The game shouldn't be like that. The most sensible option for a Killer should not be "Just drop any chase that goes near a certain area of the map, because you can never win there". Having to start a game one to three gens "forfeited" simply because they're in an indefensible part of the map is a sign that the map is imbalanced.
As for Bamboozle, a lot of the strength of these structures is centered around the fact that Bamboozle DOESN'T work to mitigate them. I've pretty much stopped using Bamboozle entirely, because most windows are on short enough loops that you can mind-game and don't need it, and on the God loops, there's almost always an adjacent pallet or two, another window that makes Bamboozle useless, or a jungle gym that lets you wait out Bamboozle's timer. It's a poor band-aid fix.
@Peanits I know yall are busy with Stranger Things hype and churning out more new content, but is there any possibility that the structures I mentioned will get looked at for minor changes any time soon? I know that you all ideally have Badham-tier reworks for all the maps planned, but knowing how fast yall work and how long it takes to implement those reworks, can you not simply do a quick pass and fix the maps "for now"?
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To be honest, I'm pretty unimpressed by the Springwood maps. Plenty of loops and so many pallets.
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I have been wondering the same thing as you my friend.
And honestly, I can think of only two reasons. The devs are either incompetent in regard to map design or they are simply unwilling to make the changes.
I would guess they are unwilling.
If the devs removed the really strong loops that exist on some maps, it would probably start an uproar in the community. Even though it's a totally justifiable nerf, there are some who want their side to remain overpowered.
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The problem with like fixing god/safe loops mostly will mean they will be removed and if they are, then games last so little it most likly it becomes unfun and bloodpoints will become even harder for survivor to get and most likely for killers as well. And most Lilly the reason they havent fix it is because perks help stop this and so do many killers as well. Probably for them its fixed but for someone who finds it hard and doesnt pick the right killer or perks will say its broken. Like for example nurse doesnt have this problem if you go her. So saying its broken/needs to be fix i would say its just plainly complaining about fixed stuff because you suck and mini games like a little brat would do.
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First of all I am one of those who thinkgs gen times are fine.
Second of all this is about the weaker killers. How is it bad if there's more variety in killer picks because certain killers suffer so much by this bad design.
Gen speed also isn't map depending, but those safe window loops are. We are not just complaining for no reason, people just think it's bad design and not very well balanced. Just saying we have the equipiment to deal with those loops. I don't want to be forced to always use one certain perk.
To be fair, the devs have already said they are reworking maps and getting rid of those safe window loops, so it is going to come sooner or later. This post was just about these loops being fixable very easily, and that they should be applied as soon as possible, and not first when we get the according map reworks.
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Good survivors don't need to rely on those safe loops. Plus they are planning to add more mindgameable loops, but also increasing the amount of pallets spawn on a map. That's the intent, more pallets, but more mindgameable ones and not as many safe pallets.
I also don't think they need to get rid of those vaults, just alter them so survivors can't run around them three times. Maybe add a door to the vaults close enough so that they can't be looped three times, but still far enough away so survivors have a chance to get to some other loop.
Wreckers Shop, honestly, I think all they need to do is remove the tires on the side of one of the vaults. They don't even need to get rid of any of those two windows.
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Requiring a perk in order to solve a problem effectively removes a perk slot from all Killers that suffer from the problem.
Requiring a certain type of Power to solve a problem effectively removes all Killers that don't have that Power.
That's why Leatherface and Wraith are so bad. It's why Pig and Legion are unviable. It's why doctor needs the brown addon effectively removing an addon slot from him, and it's why trapper automatically loses the 2 minutes or whatever needed to set up his traps before he can win chases on most maps.
Outside of T1 Myers can't do anything about most of these loops and needs T3 for the ones he can do something about. Plague can't do crap either unless they cleanse, which she can't force.
Huntress also gets screwed over on a lot of these loops and while Billy has a lot of power in general, none of that helps him here specifically.
The Killers that CAN deal with these loops with any amount of reliability are:
- Nurse
- Spirit
- Hag
- Freddy
- Clown
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Give survivors more ways to break LOS and sneak away, then we can talk about removing even more loops. You did this. You're the reason looping has become so necessary.
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