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Official dev stance on MOM
The question: I am curious what is the official dev stance on mettle of man. Is it going to be adjusted again seeing as how pretty much everyone agrees the perk is extremely unreliable(or "bad") right now? I'm not using a hyperbole here, there were quite a few questions on steam forums asking if MOM is viable and I didn't see at least one positive answer.
@Peanits, please. I understand this may be a sensitive topic, but if you guys really want to be transparent you should answer any kind of questions, not just the easy ones.
I'll also explain why the perk is in a really bad shape(for people that may not know what's going on, feel free to skip the next parts if you do):
We know the first version was pretty hated and it also sucked from a survivor POV: getting hit 3 times felt a lot like failing on purpose. Then the PTB version came and honestly I felt the perk was great in that form.
Then the nerf hammer was used and the perk received it's death sentence. It's pretty sad to see Horvath didn't try to find a proper solution for the perk and instead just trashed it.
3 protetion hits is a lot and you basically have to totally get out of your way if you want to hope to get the 3 stacks. This effectively turns the perk into at most one time use, because even if you get out of your way you have no guarantee you will manage to get the 3 stacks and use the perk once.
And even if you manage to activate it, what did you gain? You can tank a free hit, but you missed on a lot of gen progress or cleansing totems to prevent NOED or doing anything useful for your team. Chances are that if you focused on the objective instead of hunting MOM stacks you wouldn't even need to tank that one hit.
Also, the protection hits are really clunky(I'd want to say right now but they were like that for a really long time) so sometimes you won't even get the stack. On top of that, the perk kept it's massive drawback(aura reveal) even if the conditions to activate it are tremendously x 100 harder to meet and it was also changed back to work only from injured state.
Maybe add back the safe unhook + protection hits or keep only protection hits but lower it to 2 stacks and remove the aura reveal or allow the perk to be activated from healthy state too. I don't know, but something needs to be done. It's not okay right now IMO.
Comments
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Mettle of Man being anywhere near a good perk while keeping the current free hit benefit would be detrimental to killer sanity imo.
It should become something entirely different not just become easier to activate.
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It wouldn't be as bad if protection hits actually worked properly. Currently they are extremely bugged which makes MoM into unusable perk. Just fix protection hits and leave MoM how it is.
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MoM needs a rework to something else. End of story!
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Mom was a sickness to the game, thank God its gone
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It all depends on how it's executed.
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*rolls eyes into space*
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This. To the tenth power, this. And with this new undetectable bull, it's even easier for cheeseface to take a health state from survivors constantly. God forbid we get a health state ONCE per match under certain circumstances. This game is getting less fun for survivors with every patch.
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Because killers are fighting the clock and survivors already get 3 lives..its not hard to understand
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Killers are on the clock, survivors are not
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Well I'm sure they already got a ton of money off Ash so they don't really care about the perk anymore.
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Survivors are fighting the clock too. If the killer is kill rushing you feel very pressured that you are not going to get gens done.
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No..no they arnt..if you getting kill rushed as you put it..its a bad team and you deserve to fall
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If you feel like you are fighting the clock and can't get hits on survivors you deserve to fail
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Lol oo..someone got offended
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Yea I noticed you got a lil offended
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Alright little guy I'm sorry you cant handle the truth..I'll leave you to your short sighted ramblings
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Alright big guy
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Sorry that your vague statement implying a developer/community bias didn't create the drama you wanted :(
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Not true. Your job as killer is to pressure the map, deny gens and extend your own clock. You have as much time as your skill allows you to have. The longer the match goes on, the more our chances of escaping drop especially as teammates die and other hide, do nothing and/or farm eachother. Most games usually go to hatch and even then EGC is in killer's favor. If you feel not having enough time is an issue that's on you not being good enough to effectively pressure the map, not an imbalance in the game.
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Wow, such a meaningful contribution you have made. Honestly if you have nothing constructive to say then don't bother replying.
But if you want me to put it in more words... your post in so out of reality that it shows you probably won't accept any opinions that contradict it, meaning I probably won't bother giving a well though out response
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Wow, yall are childish aren't you? Half of you think there is a bias towards killer. And the other half of you just insult everyone who wants a buff towards MoM because of it's past. It's really dumb when we are talking about a perk that literally is one of the worse perks in the game now. The perk just needs reworked to something else entirely, none of this tank a hit bull. Instead yall can't be civil at all about talking about MoM....
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@immortalls96 Oh right, so we’re not on the clock but when teammates start to get hooked and no gens are being done, we can just sit there and gens will magically get done right?
You fail to understand that YOU can somewhat control your own clock whereas we depend on OTHER people to balance our own clock.
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On the topic at hand... MoM should keep its benefit.
They should fix protection hits instead. They changed the condition to work with something that is currently broken.
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Fix the Protection score event and it will at least be consistent.
It's a very strong effect it offers but that does not mean it's in any way a good thing that the detection around protection hits tend to act very... strangely at times.
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Mettle of man was a powerful perk undoubtedly but it was one of my favourite's is was a shame to see it go here is my suggestion:
Mettle of man
When hit 3 times by any attack from the killer mettle of man activates the next attack that would put you into the dying state is ignored and mettle of man will be reset ONLY usable by the obsession only one obsession per match.
This way by using mettle of man you run the risk of not being the obsession and wasting a perk slot. only one person can use it similar to the old decisive strike overall it makes the obsession somewhat of a boss battle to the killer but the killer can simply ignore or camp the obsession rendering it useless additionally by using it with the new decisive strike it will help stop tunneling even more since you become the obsession after using decisive strike
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The issue with a statement like this should be self-apparent, particularly given that the game is literally in a meta that is dubbed "The No-Heal/Adrenawin Meta" due to the abundance of extra health state/escape perks survivors have on top of insta-heals.
Your statement implies a bias that, if true, would have the game in a completely different state.
Further to this, you later state "I guess someone is still salty that MoM threatened their 4K," indicating that you're just seeking dramatic engagement, with a possible bias towards one side.
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On topic - I agree that MOM should be reworked.
I'd actually like to see it as sort of a 'partner' perk to Flip-Flop...
Maybe have it remain token based, but for every 2 tokens (safe unhook/protection hit), you can fully recover from the Dying State 1x without assistance.
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That perk was busted I'd rather it not come back with another extra hit
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As it is, the game is "balanced" for killer to mid rank solo players not coordinated 4 man swf teams. MOM got needed BECAUSE of the complete unfairness it gave. 1 proc of MOM by one survivor was fine. 2 procs was annoying. 3 or 4? Just about ruined the game.
The game was designed for limited communication except through perk choice. So many perks that are considered near useless are only like that because outside coms have made them useless.
Would anyone care about object of obsession if the obsession couldn't constantly report where the killer was basically making that one perk a party wide gps tracker? Doubt it.
What needs to happen is the game needs complete rebalancing around outside coms. Starting with a built in com system. Then a rework of perks that take that communication into account.
With dedicated servers by region, ethe chances of playing solo amd getting people who speak different languages is lowered. Yes you can mute and go solo but it's a distinct disadvantage.
When we can properly balance around the way people want to play instead of how the game waa intended to be played when created, then we can make things more 'fair' for both sides
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I have 2 problems with Mettle of Man:
- Protection hits are buggy
- Aura-reading negative
For the first problem, the developers should think of a completely different condition, or just fix how protection hits are registered.
For the second problem, the developers should just alright remove the negative, or make Mettle of Man easier to obtain, but the Aura-reading takes effect immediately.
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Even without extra hit perks it's already hard to play killer, old MoM made tearing off your own skin sound sexy compared to playing killer.
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I only started playing after the MoM nerf.
I don't respect opinions, I respect people. If your opinion is wrong, then I'll tell you it is, unless there's other 15 posts around the opinion saying why it's wrong.
And I'll take no advice on respecting others from someone who strawmans the other side.
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Mhm..no we have no control over how fast gens get done..this has been shown a long time ago , and if your team is going down you should be on gens..therefore your clock is quite in your control
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@immortalls96 You do have control over how fast gens get done, then why do many killers who properly apply gen pressure don't have this problem?
"Team is going down so you should do gens" And just let them die??
I don't deny that at times gens can go quite fast, but you seem to look at things one-sided. BOTH killer and survivors are capable of pressuring. Maybe you say this because you have this problem in your matches, but I don't always have a problem with gens getting done too quick, sometimes they don't even get to complete one.
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I look at it from both ends..never in my survivor games Do i feel theres no real chance...as killer..there are games where I know strictly due to the limits placed on my character I cannot catch up bar a miracle
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@Peanits, please x2. It's a simple question: does the balance team acknowledge the state in which MOM is right now and are they going to do something about it?
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Requierments for mom need to be much more reduced. If the perk is used, it should make you permanent broken and show the killer your position.
Like in the movies, this evil presence knows where ash was. He lost his hand, his friends he lost a lot.
It would make sense if after using mom u get broken to the end of the trial and like in the movies the killer would know where you are like in the movie.
This way it wouldnt be a high requirment & high effort perk, it would be high effort but with much higher risk perk,
of course still with a requirment, but much easier.
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We are looking into protection hits. They do not seem to be giving the perk stacks even when you get the protection hit scoring event. The same would go for WGLF as well.
As for the perk itself, it needed to be changed from the PTB version because it could actually be easier to get the stacks. With it being unhooks and protection hits, you could unhook somebody and take a hit for them to get two stacks when you previously would have only gotten one.
We do not have any changes coming just yet, but we would like to revisit it (even if that just means making sure the protection hits are working as intended). If you guys have other suggestions, please let us know.
Ultimately with how powerful the effect is, it is going to be somewhat unreliable. Getting an extra hit is massive and can completely change the entire match. Being able to reliably pull it off is what makes it frustrating. There would need to be sufficient counterplay on the killer's side if it's going to be frequent (like DS).
Post edited by Peanits on8 -
MoM was a predictively broken perk that was promptly abused adding to it popularity and notoriety. Like DS, it rewarded survivors for events that naturally occurred during normal play. This lead to survivors casually walking out exit gates just to taunt M1 killers.
The change to MoM was greatly needed. I criticize the devs for letting such a perk go live even after red flags were raised during the PTB, killers and survivors alike. I do praise them for not letting it fester for years like DS before addressing it.
As for the perks current state, it has predictively fallen out of favor. Mostly due to the no longer present abuse element. The issue now, does the perk work as intended? The answer as we can see by most post here is that it doesn't. Protection hits have always been an issue. Personally, getting 250 protection hits near a hook was hell for me.
So the solution here is not to revert or redo the perk but to fix the condition for it to activate. To fix a long standing bug ignored due to being only a scoring event until now.
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I can help you with the detection hits
The perk will only gain stacks from the Protection score event that rewards 200 points, not the protection score event that rewards 100 points
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This perk has to be bad to have a place in the game imo. The effect it provides is too strong if more than one survivor is able to proc it.
It's bad and telegraphed and you have to actively be a useless survivor to get the 3 stacks most of the time, but it's definitely healthier now than it was before.
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The problem of MoM is in the ability to tank a hit, it's too powerful with not enough conditions but not enough to justify too many conditions, a middle ground is very hard to achieve.
At this point it would probably be better to scrap the extra hit idea and totally rework it to something else.
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For the PTB MOM with both unhooks and protection hits: yes, getting 2 stacks instantly was too much. But there is a very simple solution: add a cooldown(like 5 seconds) after receiving a stack. While on cooldown no other stack can be gained.
This would fully fix that scenario and allow people to actually earn MOM stacks in different ways without being able to abuse the system.
Killer hits you -> MOM gets a stack and enters a cooldown -> you unhook -> no new stack because on cooldown -> only one stack in total.
You unhook -> MOM gets a stack and enters cooldown -> killer hits you -> no new stack because on cooldown -> only one stack in total.
This kind of idea is something that the balance team could have figured in seconds, but instead of trying to find a middle ground for the perk they just thought "screw it, just kill the perk so no one complains again"(at least this is how the change they made feels like).
@Peanits, what do you think?
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Pairing MoM with WGLF makes using MoM more meaningful as it is a one use perk. As far as I know, you can gain 1 stack one time from a killer hitting you while:
- carrying a survivor
-Preventing a hook save
- Body blocking an injured survivor (though due to the buggy registers of protection hits, this one is rare)
I usually run like hell to a killer that picked up a survivor, get hit, run away, and finally repeat that step until I get it. That's the easiest way you could ever get MoM.
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perk was busted af. i rather have dead tbh.
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true af still some surv mains claimed it to be balanced lmao
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