The grind sucks for new players.

The fact that they're already reworking it shows that they know there's a problem. As others have pointed out, though, the rework will only help existing veteran players.

It does nothing for new players. This shouldn't need to be said, but new players are good and multiplayer games require them to survive. If a bunch of Stranger Things fans arrive to discover a progression system so wonky and archaic it makes Diablo 2's look streamlined, the likelihood of them staying on past the initial honeymoon is negatively impacted.

You can say "good riddance" to them, but they wouldn't be leaving because they don't enjoy the gameplay or because they don't want to spend money. They'd be leaving because of a bureaucratic slog across multiple characters involving multiple currencies and multiple layers of RNG which has nothing to with the core gameplay itself.

It's in everyone's best interests for this game to be more welcoming, or at least a little less unwelcoming, to new players. There can still be a grind, but maybe fewer obstacles along the way to completing it would mean that more people complete it, adding to the pool of players at endgame/high ranks rather than subtracting.

Nobody said anything about the game dying, just that it's better for a multiplayer game to attract and retain new players. This isn't a personal opinion, it's just a fact of the genre.

"Day 1 or GTFO" is pretty toxic, as is "just play SWF to farm BP". Literally everything I've said has been about killers, my desire to play specific ones, my frustration at being forced to invest in killers I don't like just to properly equip the ones I do like.

So I don't see how "stop playing killer entirely" is a remedy to that, or how you can't see that proposing this as a solution is actually a sign of the problem.

My issue isn't strictly with BP gain per match on anything but my newest killers, anyway. I can make BP fine, but that doesn't make the grind any less convoluted. It doesn't change the fact that I need a spreadsheet and a city planner to determine the most efficient way to get my killers kitted out, while risking the likelihood of losing hundreds of thousands of BP to RNG along the way.

I'm okay with there being a grind, even a long grind, I'd just like it to be a little more straightforward and rewarding.

Right, your answer to someone complaining about the killer grind was to farm SWF.

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be effective, but the majority of my complaints in this thread are not based on BP per game. They're based on the fact that I need to invest a tremendous amount of time and resources into unrelated stuff. Farming SWF would help me get the points I need to unlock stuff but it would only exacerbate the core problem of progression getting in the way of the core gameplay loop.

My go-to example has been Myers, because Myers is a great stealth killer, Monitor and Abuse is a great stealth talent, but it's on Doctor, who is an anti-stealth killer. As a result, I spent days leveling up Doctor, who plays like the opposite of Myers in every way, before I played the stealth killer I just bought so I could find M&A early in his bloodweb.

My ability to complete the grind does not make its structure any more logical or intuitive. Nor does it address the massive amounts of BP waste involved in perk chasing. The upcoming update will do something to address it, and that's great. I salute the team.

I intend to make as much use of it as I can. The fact that I have issues with the design of some of its systems doesn't mean I'm not going to do whatever I have to do to get through them, this isn't about throwing a tantrum for more BPs.

I popped T3 on Myers on a corn map right behind a group of three survivors on a gen. They ######### their pants so hard one guy DCed right on the spot. I love this game, I'm not going anywhere.

I SAID GOOD DAY SIR

But seriously, no. You haven't. You repeat the same stuff I've been hearing from hardcore gamers for years -- stop whining, be grateful, we all did it. People used the same arguments all the time in FFXI, as a matter of fact, whenever anyone complained about the grind there. Then WoW came out and everyone left.

You're approaching this from the standpoint of "can the players make enough BPs to do the grind" and I'm not saying they can't, I -- along with several others who have shared their personal experiences -- am saying that it's an overly convoluted process which is poorly explained to new players, can be messed up in multiple ways, and doesn't actually contribute anything positive to the game.

My question isn't "can this grind be done?", I know it can, it's more "is this healthy for the game?" I enjoy a good progression grind, but the one we have in DbD resembles an RPG from 10 or 15 years ago.

EDIT: Also, why would I hate mobile? I'm genuinely confused by this comment.

Well, the good day thing was a joke because I get a kick out of doing that.

Again, the upcoming BW rework has already been extensively discussed in this thread. It's not going to help new players, which is what this thread is about.

You're failing to see the disconnect because you're not listening, because this isn't just about BP. That's part of the problem, yes, but I've made it clear a number of times that a big part of my objection is the time and resources needing to be spent on unrelated characters in order to progress the original character and how that interacts with both the bloodweb and the way player rank is calculated.

There are a number of factors which come together at once to make this game inhospitable to new players, that is what I'm trying discuss, not "more BP please!"

Yes, you can churn out enough BP to power through the extreme inefficiency with enough dedication. That was never in doubt. Not everyone plays this game for several hours at a time or has been here since launch, though, and even if they did, it still wouldn't address the underlying issues.

Also, launch was a long time ago. There were nowhere near as many characters and perks back then. I'm not sure it's a valid example, re: leveling too fast.

Yeah, there's no "excuse" being made. I'm actively doing the grind, as I've pointed out numerous times before, I'm just not actively defending it as a reasonable thing. Because it's not.

Again, you're reducing everything to BP which ignores the numerous structural issues I've raised. And I guess now you're just adding various straw men into the argument?

That's cool, I guess. This feels a lot like chasing a survivor while gens get done, though, so I'm gonna loop back to the objective and let you rant about whatever you feel like ranting about. Have fun.

With all due respect, you have no teachables unlocked from what I can tell and somebody had to explain NoED to you. While that doesn't make you a bad player by any means, you seem to be doing well for yourself, you're not really engaged in the greater sprawl.

Grinding up one or two characters is not a problem at all. Optimizing one or two characters can and often does require leveling multiple others, with possible repetitions in the case of poor bloodweb RNG.

If I could get everything I needed for Trapper by playing and leveling Trapper, I would have zero problem with this game's grind. I'd consider it a walk in the park. Things don't really start to get sticky until you introduce teachables.

There's nothing wrong with having to grind. The existence of the grind itself is not a problem. There are specific details about the way this particular grind is set up that work counterintuitively and discourage experimentation early on which have been covered at length in this thread. Several long-term players have chimed in with their specific thoughts and experiences on the matter, I think they're worth reading.

I'm glad you've found a way that works for you. Tbh, focusing on one character at first and grinding them up, then worrying about optimization later (if at all)is probably the most stress-free way to do it. It goes against all the advice I was given when I first started, which is that new players should focus on unlocking teachables first, but it's probably a lot smoother.