Should surviving be an expectation?
This game is labeled as a "asymmetrical horror" one could argue that it really is neither, at least for experienced/good players.
The fact that after a while the game gets figured out and you either conform to few proven paths, or go your own and accept that the game probably won't be in your favor.
I think this comes in part partially for the fact that survivor's are pretty much guaranteed to escape when the game is trying to be balanced around two escaping. This can only lead to certian builds, intended to take advantage of the key conditions in order to win, and will rule the game.
Survivor's expect to escape - so they must do gens, and asap because the killers are expect two get to kills (let's be honest they expect 4). They are in a race to do so before the survivors who are rushing to not get killed power the gates.
The perks and character that allow each side to do the best will set the tone of the game because most play to win.
This game is shallow and all of us were OK with that because it wasn't trying to be more then it was, which is a glorified version of freeze tag. Now it is trying to deepen its self, and allow people develop certian play styles but with pre-set stats, and this doesn't seem to be sitting well with many of the gamer demographics. Too intense for casual gamers and an on the rails for rpg/character development folks for example.
I don't think gens need to be increased or that a second objective is required or nefring noed or removing moris ect....... is going to fix this. Surviving and killing needs to be harder and or more based on skill. Stealth players should be able to play and win differently then in your face aggressive players.
Essentially this game needs to be left alone soon, and they need to start working on larger, or more in depth version of their dream. The current product doesn't seem to please many.
Comments
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The vision is to keep going for at least 5 more years.
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I really enjoyed your carefully crafted view and opinion on this issue. It was very refreshing :3
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Good luck. At their currrent rate? They'll be lucky. There's a reason killer lobbies are getting longer and longer to find.
It's because the current path they're on is chasing people away. Mostly survivors. The game is far too oppressive on survivor side because the killer meta is HELLA strong right now, while survivor meta perks have all been repeatedly nerfed. As well as window and pallet hits. Being moried instantly out of a game. Constant Ruin and Pop back to back.
But it's on both sides really. Survivors still have things needing address like instaheals, sprint burst negating a lot of killer abilities, most of the maps still in their favor heavily, etc.
The game has gotten to a very stale state in terms of meta and in terms of how the game in overall is played.
It's also why a majority of the Fog Whisperers program seem unhappy with the game or seem to be playing it less.
It's kind of like BHVR is in a state of ignorant bliss about just how bad of a path they are on.
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Who plays a game expecting to lose?
Still surprised there are as many survivor players as there are. All the little nerfs... They add up.
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It's pretty much what survivor has become though. You can't expect to survive anymore. The killer meta is ridiculous strong now. Especially on the high mobility killers.
And then you have Hag who is the odd little freakball who somehow defied odds to be a 110 killer who is probably one of the best killers in the game that still has insane map pressure somehow.
You can't nerf survivor time after time after time after time and expect survivors to still have fun. While buffing killer perk after killer perk after killer perk. And the killer after kill with Freddy and Hag's case.
The game eventually becomes miserable for the side that is legitimately the bigger side of the player base.
And that in turn? Causes said part of the player base to dwindle and dwindle and dwindle.
Especially when said part of the player base has nothing going for them game play wise but holding R1 to interact with things when the game isn't about a chase.
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I know I'm ranting a lot, but they've hyper focused on trying to fix a lot of killer issues, while making survivor weaker and weaker. And still won't acknowledge complaint after complaint survivors have had about things that make the game unfun for them.
They're slowly gonna killer their game if they only take time to help one side at a time.
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I think @alienschmalien and @AWesley91 summed it up pretty well, but at the same time, while removing things like moris may not fix a whole lot, it will at least cause the game to be less frustrating for a majority of players. I'm not saying to remove the power to kill by hand in general, but the offerings(mainly ebony moris), are entirely too powerful to be allowed in a game if you're expecting it to be balanced. There's absolutely 100% nothing balanced about removing such a huge portion of gameplay, and they encourage another unhealthy gameplay pattern on top of that, which is waiting for someone to be unhooked and then tunneling them down immediately. Killers will literally stay right near the hook waiting to be able to mori you, and if a survivor that unhooks doesn't have BT, you're screwed because the place they brought you likely doesn't have any pallets or anything to use for safety.
I do agree though that removing some of the high intensity things might make the game a bit more stale, I'm not saying to make things stale in general. I think a lot of killer addons should be made to be more like Freddy's pallet addons, subtle differences that change gameplay, but aren't entirely too powerful. They make you guess what you're up against, but don't significantly tip something on the killer's favor, kind of like a mini mind game. This is why I think Freddy's addons are probably the best created addons in the game. They keep the game fresh while also not being entirely overpowered, and Freddy doesn't suffer in the process. I would give up all item addons and make items only have more charges(albeit maybe give them a buff to their base kit slightly) in order for all addons to be like this + make moris need to be earned.
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The game isn't anti-survivor, the "problem" is that it's being increasingly balanced around high rank and most of the playerbase are potatoes. And since the game is controlled by survivors, if the survivors aren't good than the killer doesn't need to be either. Survivors can still loop very effectively and high rank survivors run multiple get-out-of-jail-free perks.
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I think it's more than just reworking add ons. It's reworking legitimately the stuff that is just not fun to go up against as a survivor but no nerfing them so god damn much that they're unfun to play like old Freddy or current Legion.
Nurse, Spirit, and even Hillbilly thanks to the current strong meta builds he's capable of are all oppressive and super unfun and dare I even say? Unfair to go up against.
I know they want to rework things like Doctor and what not, because he is an annoying unfun killer to go against, but priority should really be placed on fixing these top tier killers so they're not only strong but also fun to go up against.
If you're gonna be stuck going against them for a month on end in the purple and red ranks over and over and over?
At least make them fun to go up against. Is that so much to ask? No one wants to play guessing games with Nurse and Spirit. No one wants to have Hillbilly's one weakness lopping be gone, because oh shock wow. The good Hillbilly player thought of that and bought Enduring and Spirit Fury.
There's a such thing as strong killers but also making them fun to go up against. So far not a one of the stronger killers is fun to go against. Huntress? Maybe.
But poor girl really just needs a lot of help anyways. She's fallen from grace hard in my opinion. Mostly due to the bad map design.
Seriously? How does Matt Walker have a job still? Why is he in charge of things like Badham and the New Map?
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I think one escape per game is fine. The killer should be a threat, but the survivors need to have a perspective too. At the moment you have to 4k as killer to pip and even then you sometimes blackpip. They need to rework the emblem system as a whole.
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I think this another train of thought that is unhealthy for the game. In general there's too much emphasis on 4k or NoK all the god damn time.
If one or even two escapes? You didn't fail your job as a killer.
If I recall correctly didn't they at some point want the balance to be 2 in and 2 out?
Because I feel like for the most part they're failing that lately. It's more like 3 die and 1 might get lucky and get out via the hatch or an exit gate in Endgame Collapse IF they're lucky.
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Hillbilly is inherently fine. Enduring and Spirit Fury are nasty but you can drop the pallet early and he's using two perks for that. BBQ is a meme as there is a locker near almost every generator and it takes time to hook someone. Ruin is not an issue because it's a killer perk (one of four) that almost every killer runs which means the survivors know that if one of their sixteen perks were Small Game they could eliminate Ruin quickly on anything but an indoors map.
Spirit is very fun to go against, and one of the only scary killers. Prayer Beads need to go, sure.
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The one escape per game is balanced. The killer is just a threat, and the survivour's need a purpose as well. But the emblem system is in dire need of a rework. No arguments there. :)
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They balanced it that way because their emblem system is kinda broken. It's difficult to pip as killer with only two kills and two escapes (Gatekeeper trash mainly). I think a reworked emblem system with following balance updates could save the problems.
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Spirit is fun? In what universe?
If Spirit was fun? People wouldn't DC or kill themselves early in games against her. Which they do even if Prayer Beads isn't in play.
Passive phasing needs to chill or be nerfed because it makes her mind games super strong.
She's probably the least fun of the top tier killers to go against IMO.
I'd rather face Hillbilly or Nurse countlessly than go against her.
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That's probably because the way to counter Spirit is to run perks like Lightweight, Iron Will, and fewer get out of jail free perks, and do things that would be suicide against any other killer, such as not heading towards the obvious pallet while she is phasing.
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I disagree. Spirit is fun to play with and against. Maybe its just your experiences. But hey, we all have a different view on things!
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There is literally NO balance in this game whatsoever. It's literally whoever brings the bigger guns. Iridescent Head + Infantry Belt + Ebony Mori Huntress vs no item survivors? Good luck survivor side. 4 Instaheal/BNPs+BL+Haddonfield vs Huntress with no addons? Good luck Huntress. They might say "Hey a killer might feel a bit too strong at base, so we're nerfing them slightly", but game quality is still a wreck because of how certain things tip the scales from the beginning of the game. That's obviously not going to change, but personally imo games should be balanced around a 50% chance win or lose for both sides, rather than whoever has the best addons/items/offerings. Some people might find the challenge exciting, but that doesn't make it balanced. The other side still has less chance of winning depending on who brings what into the trial from the beginning of the game.
I'd rather things that are brought into a trial change only slightly, rather than be so off the wall that you just feel like "Well, guess this is a depip". As I said, Freddy's addons are probably the closest to balanced while also being somewhat exciting we've ever gotten.
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I'm gonna say this and it might shock someone and the developers because they love creating perks as band aid fixes for problems and this applies to both killer and survivor:
If you have to run a perk in a game to counter something or someone?
You've already borked balance up so bad. You might as well give up and just make everything a ######### show. Lol.
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Iridescent Head + Infantry Belt + Ebony Mori Huntress vs 4 Instaheal/BNP and the Huntress is by far going to have the better time...
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My point was that game quality is far from a 50/50 shot in ANY game. Every game the chances of escaping/killing depend heavily on items/addons/offerings. No two sided game should have anything other than a 50% chance of winning from the beginning of a match. Sure, those chances of winning reducing or increasing over the course of the match are fine, but no game should START with a significantly reduced or increased chance of winning.
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Yeah, but in saying that, you can't expect to also come across a no perk-no-add-on killer either. Or survivour. That's the will of the game - come prepared. Take chances. Just... enjoy the game regardless. Its not unplayable. And sometimes killers get so backfired by their plans which have relied on add-ons and perks, that survivours are sometimes just all that much more effective in-game. Some of the survivour perks are plain OP.
But take my word with a grain of salt - because apparently, I'm just a regular old Myers stomper that continuously loops 4 kill wins with ease... XD
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Perhaps survivors should see killers before the match start. This way they can use perks to counter killers and also M1 killers could play against survivors with no meta perks, but fun ones. Anyway when the match starts in 10 secs. you know who is the killer.
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As a Rank 1 Survivor, I think it has come to the point accepting you’re not going to survive most games.
In my 50 recorded games last season, I only escaped 22. This was all at R1 and solo.
24 of the games resulted in a 4K.
Chasing has been nerfed extremely hard over DBD’s lifespan. You can Stealth, but everyone runs tracking perks.
Unfortunate, but that’s the way it is now for a solo player.
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Surviving is the goal not a given; same goes for 1k-4k... That's for any game though imho
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There are a lot of fine points on this thread, and I'd like to chime in on just a couple of my own. I also think this is a casual game at heart, and the players just went hardcore with it, which is bad for the more casual-type players but great for those who think and play like they do. Also, the bigger portion of the player base needs to have a good time (win or lose) in order to keep the game going. And I respect that it has become a "Me vs. The Killer" deathmatch in seeing how long you can last, since technically the killer cannot chase two separate survivors at once, therefore a chase really is between skill, killer abilities, resources, etc. I know many people have gotten terribly bored with gens and look forward to being chased, and that's what keeps them going. I don't want to take that away from them.
I don't know how the game would change in order to incorporate this idea, but I wish stealth had a bigger impact on the game, maybe balanced by the terrible drawback of being caught. For decades I've wanted a game based on a certain scene in an action movie (won't say which ~_~) but maybe DbD could incorporate this, and it works better since the killer is in first-person while survivors are in third. I'm thinking along the lines of some perks or perhaps a character archetype that allows survivors to hide easier than others, balanced by putting them in big trouble if they were found out. Maybe this class has only one health state, so they rely on avoiding killer's attention in order to survive. There's a lot of options and ideas here I don't want to take up this thread with, but at the same time I don't want to give people reasons NOT to expose themselves and go make saves, because it really sucks hanging from a hook with no one coming to get you.
At the beginning, I relied on stealth and many things since then have just made all forms of stealth less and less viable, meaning I get into chases much more often and that is not my strong suit. Since I don't want to be forced into meta perks I get caught and die easily, but that's my choice not to use them. I just feel that the game is at its best and most tense when it's more horror-aligned, rather than a party free-for-all with survivors running all around the killer as if it's a game of tag. They should be scrambling for their lives in terror! Well, I know most players don't think of it like that anymore, but it was thrilling when you first started, wasn't it? Can we get mechanics to take it back there again? Ugh, apologies for the wall of text. I get passionate about the things I love.
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And yet the playercount seems pretty fine.
I'll start to worry once that's very low. 😜
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I never have any trouble finding games as a killer.
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Except, a 2K is often a de pip for the Killer. So, their own ranking system doesn't add up with that 2 die 2 escape.
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Game defines survivor winning as gaining a pip so probably not. Once emblem system works in a way that you can only pip if you survive then surviving can be expected to happen more often but right now you should expect to die in 60%+ of your games.
People keep complaining how survival rate is too low but their ranking system takes survival just as 1/4th of the win scoring. You don't need to survive to "win" so survival rate should be pretty low.
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I think this is the main problem with the game currently. Killers are stronger than ever, and just like the healing nerf pushed survivors to avoid the problem and developing the no-heal meta, this led survivors to avoid contact with the killer and rush the gens/exit asap. Problem is killer-survivor interaction is the core of the game.
The Plague is the epitome of this: even if everyone is broken but can heal quickly with fountains, they don't give a ######### and try to rush gens. They don't want to "waste" time healing, they don't want to face a stronger killer (with Corrupt Purge), they don't want to engage chases. They don't want to play, they only want to finish it as quickly as possible.
Personally I think it's a problem for killers as much as survivors, since it leads to short games with minimal interaction, which usually end in "most escape" or "most die", with little inbetween.
All in all it could be that it was being said that they wanted to buff solo survivors and then make killers stronger, but till now they didn't much for the former.
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There's no way the current path and direction there was in was meant to buff solo survivor, unless I miunderstood that, because honestly? If anyone has suffered most by the consistent killer buffs?
It's solo survivor. It's virtually unchanged things for playing with your friends as survivor.
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I like how people in this thread have been acting like only one side has been getting massive one-sided buffs the past year when it's actually a lot more complicated than that
But hey the "Devs nerfed my free health Mettle. Devs hate survivors, killers ruin game" or "Devs nerfed Enduring. Devs hate killers, survivors ruin game" argument couldn't be used if everyone wasn't super freaking biased to the playstyle they main, and evaluated the game's changes with an open eye
Looking at you @alienschmalien
And trust me I can bring up past history to prove the developers are doing their best to balance the game for both sides this past year and a half
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@Coriander so far I like your input the most, seeing as it aligns with my original intent of this post and my general view on the state of this game.
- Once you've figured out the mechanics/meta of the game, it's no longer a horror game, but a game of tag.
- I love stealth games and the whole idea of being able to achieve an objective with out being detected, which is not an overly viable option in this game even though it would like to present the options to play that way.
- More often then not, survivors can gang up, especially in the end game and essentially over power the killer with free health states, speed boosts, body blocks and so on. They are just not concerned with taking hits or have any fear of the killer when they can run as pack and feed of the 16 perks then being used in one area.
I like this game, but I wish it was so much more, and I don't think it's good to drag us through the awkward growing phase that is currently happening. I think most people would be happy if this game was polished and then left alone for 12-24months while they did a substantial overhaul.
D.b.D 2-Dead by Dawn
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It would be more interesting if Survivors could achieve things that don't involve escape.
Survivors that get a "Noble Sacrifice" or "Stick it to the Man" or "The Great Purifier" result or something like that. So Survivors can gear towards achieving different goals other than surviving.
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Fam, what are you on? I literally play with no perks but no mither and escape 65% of my games. Is it beginner unfriendly in some ways? Sure but they can always improve how quickly beginners can learn and get better. The fact remains that survivors are the power role unless you pick Nurse or Spirit due to every single survivor perk being a second chance perk. Stacking these perks breaks the game. I think they could instead designate what kinds of perks can be in each slot to limit the builds if they really wanted to stop nerfing the perks themselves. For example, slot 1 can be an exhaustion perk, slot 2 can be and aura reading perk, slot 3 can be a stealth perk of their choosing, and slot 4 can allow them to choose an end game perk.
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Just because devs keep removing unfair things from survivors doesn't mean it's bad for survivor now, ok? Devs are making the game better and better every patches, so Mori or Instaheal, anything that doesn't healthy to the game will be remove. THIS IS A GAME AND WE ARE PLAYING FOR FUN
(I used to be salty as f*ck because not being able to 4k or escape from killer but one day I realized I'm gonna die some day so why do I need to give a ######### about those ranks or points, if I feel stressed I'm gonna take a small break from the game)
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There are a lot of good points being made, and some that are straying away from what I think is the reality of the situation, but I won't always agree with everyone, but who could?
I like a suggestion @CyberianFaux made, that if certian perks could only be used in certian slots, it may curb the over power/exploitable builds.
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The problem with this thinking is survivors have no idea what killer they will face and therefore can't prepare specific perks. Therefore most survivors run meta perks, ones they know will help them escape against the majority of killers. It makes sense, why run a perk in the off chance that game might be 1 out of 17 killers.
Now I don't believe survivors should know which killer they're going to face, I think that's part of the fun, finding out which map and which killer. Plus it would be too overpowered allowing survivors to kit themselves with the best counter perks to a killer.
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The hilarious thing is? The only thing they've nerfed for survivor that I ran religiously before they nerfed it wasn't even Mettle.
It was Self Care. I never ran any Exhaustion Perks until Head On. I wasn't really a Meta Slave survivor, but still did well.
And I only ran Decisive after it's change to counter being tunnelled.
But go off I guess. ASSume you know everything about me.
You can bring up all these supposed killer nerfs, and they have nerfed killer things, but outside of gutting Legion incredibly bad. Nothing has come to the grand total sum of how each little survivor nerf and each little killer perk buff and strong killer releases like the Freddy Rework and Spirit's just general existence has made survivor a more and more miserable existence.
Killer is in the best space it has EVER been. Survivor is in the worst space it's ever been.
Neither side is utterly perfect sure, but don't act like killer is in some miserable state right now when the only TRUE issue there is if you don't run the meta or play a certain killer? You stand a strong chance of getting ######### if you're not good at killer.
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If you are playing a Killer that isn't Nurse, Spirit or Billy, at red ranks, you will almost always be in for a bad time. There is nothing wrong with Spirit or Billy. Nurse's add-ons make her far too good and as such they are being looked at.
Survivors still hold the power role in this game. They determine if you win or lose as a Killer. It sounds to me like you lack experience as a Survivor and therefore, blame it on nerfs. Enduring was nerfed, therefore Spirit Fury received a shadow nerf. Decisive Strike was changed to, mostly, punish tunneling. MoM never should have been released. Legion got...well, we know what happened to him.
The last red rank viable Killer we got was Spirit. Legion was bad even before his rework, Plague was and still is mediocre, GhostFace is bad for everyone and the Demo, well, jury is still out on that one.
My point is, stop being so entitled and try to see things from both perspectives. The game is the most balanced it has ever been. There are a lot of problems with Solo Survivor games. That needs to be addressed. After it is, buff the weaker Killers and bring them up to the new Solo level, which should be equal to SWF.
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It sounds like to me you lack experience as a killer and blame it on buffs.
See how ######### that is?
Stop with that. Don't attack me. I won't attack you.
The joke is you legit think Spirit is fine at base. She's not. She's tragically not. More people agree with me on that than they would agree with her being fine.
Hillbilly is fine at base, but slap strong killer perks on him? He's an oppressive monster to go against and there's no winning even if you're a god tier survivor.
And if you think I'm biased, despite my posts being in a completely unbiased manner and bringing up points that both sides are not perfect.
Maybe I'm not the biased one? Maybe you just want to see an ''Entitled Survivor Player" where there isn't one, because they are saying things you don't want to hear?
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Honestly I made it to red ranks with an immersed non meta build.
As long as you are repairing gens, unhooking teammates, healing them and evading/escaping the killer. You will rank up and have great games to show.
Seriously what a lot of ppl forget is that just bc a perk is good for you doesn't mean it is for everyone.
For example I was stuck in bronze rank bc has a sensory perk I used "Spine chill" and kept missing the random skillchecks it pop and then would be found (I'm not good at chases). As soon as I switched for "Premonition" (a perk most ppl will say is trash) I made it to purple and then red with the help of SB.
So I guess my point is "You Do you". :)
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Considering I have been stuck at Rank 1 for several months? Not likely inexperience.
If YOU cannot juke a Spirit, that's on you. Ever heard of Iron Will or Quick and Quiet? Hella strong versus Spirit. Besides, chases shouldn't be lasting over 45 seconds anyway. Oh and most people agree Spirit is only OP when she is using Prayer Beads.
Billy is loopable no matter what perks he runs. He's a better Demogorgon. Very easy to loop even an Insta-Saw Billy.
Doubtful, considering that before I joined the forums, I told myself I would play Survivor and Killer. I had only played Killer beforehand and oh boy, you could tell. Perhaps it is you, sir, that has the problem, considering the fact that you have attacked other people in this thread.
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Oh boy.
Rank does not equal experience.
Rank is not earned by skill. Not in the current emblem system or the way the rank system is built. Rank is pretty much just time you've played and spent on the game in each period.
So if you get to red or purple ranks every month? It's caused you played a lot. Nothing more. It's why you still have potato survivors and killers who fall for so called ''Rank 20" jukes and mind games at rank 1.
I've run Iron Will, I've run Quick and Quiet. Neither help against a Spirit who has headphones on. Spirit is OP from her very base by the nature of her ability. And just how you have no idea where the ######### she's going when she's in it. When a killer has to have 2 or 3 perks to be ''countered" at base? They've now become someone who needs to be looked at.
And I've said it before in this very thread and I'll say it again. But on either side? If something or someone is so strong that you have to counter them/it with an entire build or perk? That's not on you. That's on BHVR. Perks should not be band aids. And it's their fault they've borked balance on something that bad.
Perks should not work that way. For either side.
Billy's loop weakness is almost virtually negated if he's running Enduring and Spirit Fury. It makes his one weakness MINDLESS for the Billy player. Just get stunned? Easy come back. Kick pallet. Next stun you get an easy hit. Yay. "Skill."
And I've attacked nobody in this thread. But go off I guess. I've offered strong opinions that some people probably don't want to hear or like? But attacked?
Whoooa boy. You are reaching if you think that.
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Considering you have, what, 27 posts now that means one of two things. Either A) you took a break from the game and you just came back or B) You got banned off the forums once and now the ban is up.
Experience does tend to equal skill. If I play for 1K hours, I'm probably decent.
I'm glad you think that Survivors should be able to loop the Killer for 5 gens, as you have established. Spirit Fury and Enduring is not as strong as it once was. Especially with the increase in pallets across the new maps. Spirit is completely counterable, just because YOU don't know how doesn't mean she isn't. Take this for example, I have no idea how to make a computer, just because I don't know how to does not mean other people don't. See my point?
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Nope. Neither answer is correct. Why are you assuming things so much? Stop that. Jesus.
If you play 1k hours, you might be decent? I haven't seen you play. So I can't really say anything about that.
But there are a lot of 1k hour people in this game. And a lot of those 1k hour people aren't that great. They wouldn't be considered a ''skilled" player.
This game isn't that hard or as complex or competitive as people would like to make it or think it is. The rank system and the skill fights between both sides are just...the most laughable thing?
Because literally a lot of this started because when the game came out. One side decided to take an unintended thing like running in a circle and make it the thing to do and here we are.
A casual game became a ######### show piss contest between two different sides. *roll eyes*
I didn't say survivors should always be able to loop killers for 5 gens, no they shouldn't. Quit assuming again or reading into my words. However? I don't think that a killer should be able to end a chase with a perk. To fix a problem that should be fixed at base level. And just because there's more pallets? Didn't really nerf Enduring and Spirit Fury. If anything? It means that Billy gets it faster.
Again. If you want to argue skill. Don't think a Billy is skilled because he knew that his one weakness is looping and then slapped on two perks that mindlessly take away that.
Killers should be winning chases and survivors should be winning chases no because of their perks, but because they actually did something to win that chase.
Perks =/= Skill. And that's problem fundamentally with this game for both sides. You can't measure skill when so many perks on both sides can change the course of a chase or objective.
Hence why it's an utterly casual game and not at all competitive or skill based.
And those examples in your Spirit point are so far removed from one another dude. Nice try though. We're just going to agree to disagree on Spirit. I'm done talking about her with you. She's a perfect naturally strong killer to you and that's fine if you want to believe that.
And if I and I others believe she is a ######### show who like Nurse shouldn't exist in her current state? That's fine too.
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Who says 'killers expect 4 kills'?
Literally, this meme is spouted only by survivors.
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Ehh. The emblem system kind of rewards you for going out of your way to get the 4k.
That and the number of people in game you will see when playing survivor who will straight up leave another survivor on the ground to bleed out and chase the last survivor who is juking that killer for days on end?
Kinda of lends into this meme.
There's a lot of killers out there okay with 2ks and 3ks sure or just getting everyone hooked twice, etc.
But for most memes or things in this community? There's some truth behind it.
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To be fair, a lot of those pallets on new maps are moreso traps for survivors than anything. Any killer can just walk around them without having the survivor drop it on them and get a hit. As for Spirit, my only real issue with her is that she can make physical contact with you while she's phasing, guaranteeing her a hit if she does. You can't walk back on your own scratch marks if she's following you, so you can't trick her that way.
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