Can we buff survivors?
Why does it feel like they have nerfed survivors to the ground?
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yeah lemme get uhhhhhh 2 window jungle gym wit uhhhhh extra pallet
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Survivors are fine but let me just leave this here, AH ######### HERE WE GO AGAIN
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Because they refuse to buff the weak killers. Their only solution is to nerf survivors which did mostly nothing except make the strong killers even stronger. Killers like wraith are still weak after countless nerfs to survivor.
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Take a good survivor and good killer today and place them in the old version. The survivor would dominate.
The highest skill ceiling in the game is the survivor role.
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Just saying every killer runs noed and bbq. Demmie can teleport every 10 seconds. Been running into countless demo games where hex is patrolled and every gen has a portal. If its not him its spirit
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What about survivors do you want to buff? I don't feel like they need it.
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Go back to 2016 and you will see that this game is pretty balanced right now.
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They haven't
They are balanced as it shouldn't be 1 survivor is stronger than 1 killer, it should be 4 survivors are equally as strong as 1 killer
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Yea they nerfed survivor.
For a very good reason.
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I have recorded several games in a row that disagree with this noed bbq thing.
Demogorgon default cooldown is higher. And he needs to set up before teleporting.
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Survivors have been for the entire games existence the power role and still very much are, if anything they need nerfs, not buffs.
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But to be serious, I think survivor is fine it just needs something to spice it up a bit but Idk what. Maybe a second objective? :/
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Disagree. Hands down highest skill ceiling is huntress. 100% huntress 100% wins
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Huntress has a hard skill ceiling. No matter how good you get with her, you will get to the point of diminishing returns.
Her weekness is in mostly her movement and map pressure and relying on survivors to remain close and stupid.
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Are you trying to tell me survivors dont have a hard ceiling? and scale better infinitely? Im just saying Huntress has the highest ceiling - hard or soft or flacid
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Its higher than most killers individually and with a good team of four it surpasses.
I'm not saying Huntress doesn't take skill. She takes more skill than the majority of the other killers and a good Huntress is impressive to watch. But I wouldn't place her at the top of the skill requirement tree.
Huntress skills are in aim, where to aim, and predictability. Aiming is basic to her kit. Flight time plus distance. Without this you be limited to close range and lucky throws. If you played any FPS and are moderately good you can grasp aiming with ease.
Where to aim and prediction. This is where skill comes into play and the limiting factor due to how the game is. You can be the best Huntress main in the game and still get screwed over by map selection. There will be tile sets that you are unable to play around. You may be able to perfectly predict survivors movement but are unable to make a shot.
Then ofcourse you have basic game sense that is shared with any killer you play.
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Double Pallet Jungle gyms I feel like should come back sorta. They added variety in the game.
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There are double pallets in the new map.
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They also added a lot of frustration and stress on the Killer side
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Thank you
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@Masantonio I'm not talking about adding double pallets on every map tile I'm talking about adding them on a few. Like the ones on the new map.
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Il have 2 vacuum pallets, a instablind, a instant ds after i pick someoneup with extra instablind, 2 vacuum pallets, maps with exploits for the survivors to hold the game hostage and a large soda.
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With a side of my 3 pals I’m SWF with on voice coms
with my Adrenaline DS DH and Borrowed time. All the while teabagging and clicky click with my flashlight. Also if I go down once
i dc :)
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Survivors aren't weak. Far from it; if the survivors know what they're doing, any player not on a top tier killer had may as well just go AFK in the basement for all the chance they have of winning.
They are hella boring tho.
You know what's less entertaining than having all the gens pop in the first 3 minutes after 1 chase?
Sitting on a gen holding m1 for 3 minutes and never engaging the killer.
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"Variety" in that you'd get trials where you barely needed to try because terrain generation won the game for you?
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Survivors still have map design on their side though.
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Well survivors have been nerfed heavily to the ground.
Much of it is required and good for the game, though. Nerfing Sabo was needed. Nerfing pallets and vaults was necessary.
Some of the nerfs though go too far and are counterproductive to the game. The last healing nerf wasn't necessary and actually resulted in a worse problem for killers (faster gen times). The lighting and stealth nerfs ensure that survivors focus on looping and don't bother with stealth anymore, kind of like how the healing nerf meant they stopped bothering with healing. And in some ways nerfing sabo resulted in faster gen times because now nobody wastes time with sabo.
It's funny how people keep asking for extra objectives for survivors, when sabotaging hooks has always been in the game. Maybe a change to sabotaging (but in a fair way that won't make it impossible for the killer to get hooks) would encourage survivors to, you know, stop doing gens and do something else. Ditto for healing.
There are a lot of adjustments that need to be made; now that survivors are used to rushing gens a healing buff would just make killers everywhere weep. Perks like Inner Strength are a huge step in the right direction as it incentivizes not doing gens for a great benefit.
We don't need straight buffs, but we need smart reworks to existing mechanics like Inner Strength which give survivors more options on what to do in the game without being overbearing against killers.
I find it funny how many streamers are whining about Inner Strength, you can see they really just want an easy killer game and survivors nerfed into the ground. They make me sick. And it makes me even sicker to know that there are lots of killers who drink their Kool Aid brainlessly without considering the consequences.
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Survivors need map design nerfs, lower tier killers need buffs and survivors alternative strategies like stealth and healing (something to promote it, and therefore waste time in the killers favor in order to have the survivor happy and healthy) need buffs. Enough said
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Totally agree! I think weaker killers should definitely be looked at. I’m tired of playing against the same killers honestly.
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BHVR, keep nerfing survivors and SoonTm you'll see 4 trappers playing against a nurse or something like that. This game is getting worse and worse with every patch. For survivors, of course.
Someone knows a game where survivors can go to play? And where we can play with friend?
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Honestly I think Survivor gameplay itself is in an acceptable spot. More nerfs would end up to make the game just too frustrating or boring to play. Buffing weaker killers and tweaking maps should be the major balance focus.
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Survivors are still the power role in this game - even among the top 3 killers (with skill of course). Anyone advocating for buffs to survivors also needs to advocate for buffs to the weaker killers. It is the only way things can remain fun for BOTH killers and survivors.
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The game will continue to be imbalanced until the developers acknowledge that Dead by Daylight is two different games: The solo survivor match and the SWF match. Some killers are especially countered by SWF because they rely on the survivors having imperfect information.
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Survivors haven't been nerfed. Full stop. They certainly don't need buffs, even solo play. 5 players in a match, all of equal skill? The killer will lose the majority of the time. Survivors complete the real objective (survive) 40% of the time or more - applied to gameplay, that's usually a black pip for decent killers, if not a depip with corresponding lack of BP, while even a dead survivor can double pip and gain more BP than the killer.
While there were alternate strategies from the meta that were discouraged by changes, they weren't nerfs. When survivors weaponize stealth and sabo-teams, it alters core gameplay - course correction isn't the same as a nerf. While I wish stealth could be brought back, and it is to a slight extent just like sabos being brought back as a little more rewarding while still challenging, BHVR needs to be careful not to outright buff these to the point where they subvert the game again.
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No
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I do that sometimes when I get creamed as Wraith.
As for the OP, I'm all for survivor buffs. Especially solo survivor but only if they buff all the weaker killers.
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40% escape was in god rank with MoM and before EGC, buffing sounds, nerfing MoM, vaults, buffing survivor sounds,..... Now it should be about 10-15%.
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We can quibble about the semantics, but a nerf is a nerf.
We both agree that the nerf/course-correction was necessary, but we still need even more course corrections. The current state of the game is not bad for survivors, survivors are far from being "oppressed" but it's hardly ideal either.
Game needs more variety and options in gameplay, devs need to make adjustments that are fair to killers while still enabling more gameplay. And all this will fix the gen rush meta if BHVR can somehow get it right.
A lot of us have given tons of input, it's just a shame that none of the many great ideas being put forth by the community actually make it to the game. You'd think they'd at least try them out, even just on the PTB to see how it works out.
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I think that with some game mechanics design changes the "weaker" killers can be put back to a good spot.
The reason the Big Three are in a good spot is because the game has been funneled into a genrush/chase paradigm, so killer mobility is the single most powerful thing that matters.
If the devs would just nerf looping and survivor chases a bit more so that chases don't last 5 minutes and then enable alternate strategies to survive, the power of The Big Three would go down all by itself and other killers would get a spot in the limelight.
Some of the suggestions people have given are drastic but good. A survivor stamina bar that limits how long they can sprint is one. In return though survivors need to be able to stealth and juke better. Some players have suggested additional hiding spots and obstacles on the map. Which are good but requires a lot of work.
Ultimatley, BHVR seems to not want to take the effort to rework a lot of the design elements. Instead they are focusing on Band-Aid Perk fixes to try to shift the meta. This is, again, just a bandaid fix and will not fix basic design issues in the game. BHVR needs to be brave and put in the work to try different and more radical fixes to the game.
If they don't want to, maybe it's time to start working on DBD2. Since they have said they want this game to continue another 5 years or so, it's important that they start thinking of basic design changes instead of just releasing bandaid perks and DLC.
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'Nerf' is an actual term meaning reconfiguring to reduce main gameplay effectiveness - since the gameplay stemming from those elements wasn't conducive to that main gameplay, the alteration wasn't a nerf. It might be semantics, but it's as important as the difference between a rework and a revision.
There do need to be more changes, and I'm comfortable saying both sides could use targeted buffs in tandem with each other in order to break up the meta*. I'm just not going to be convinced of people saying survivors [the power role for people with skill] need to buffed in exclusion. I'd love a community-led PTB, though, where they take something like ten to twenty fan-suggested changes/buffs each for killers and survivors - voted on, preferably.
No, 40% is the high end of the curve, with both grey/yellow and red ranks averaging there. It's green and purple who die more frequently, and the data has been rather consistent each time it gets released - with consistent errors in data collection, too, including the most recent time which was after the course corrections you mentioned. Keep in mind, the dev's idea of a perfect game includes two dead survivors.
*I'm loving Inner Strength for a good example.
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I am 100% not on board for straight survivor buffs. There has to be a give and take. Otherwise you'll get power creep and even more imbalance.
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A nerf is a nerf. It doesn't matter how you qualify it, if something is made weaker than it has been nerfed.
"The devs idea of a perfect game includes two dead survivors"
This is funny because it's probably the least probable outcome.
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Man survivors don't need a buff. If you think survivors are weak, you just don't know how to play against the killers. Btw you're not supposed to win every game. In fact the devs wanted to make the role of a survivor challenging and they totally messed it up, it's the killer that has the challenge.
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Yeah I can agree with you man. I feel like most of the problems can linger from generator times and how long chases can truly last for because some people really know how to juke properly and safely.
This game has been out for about three years now and the meta has barely changed. Only yet this time people don’t really heal.
Like there are many perks that are never used because they’re ever so situational or aren’t really that good on both sides.
We have tons of low or mid tier killers while there are only three on the top spot like if you really aren’t going to check them or fix them properly what’s the point of actually having them there?
Like a lot of people say that you can make any killer high tier if you know how to play them really well but not a lot of people might not play DBD for hours and hours yknow? There are people who have lives or can’t play as much.
I think playing Billy or Nurse is really boring not gonna lie but that’s just my opinion.
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Honestly can't wait for the doctor and leatherface touch ups! Super excited to get back to playing them!
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