Did the Nurse rework factor in her map travel pressure?
I feel like we've all been neglecting this part of her power. She uses her blinks to travel across the map constantly, and with these new limitations I feel like they're pushing her most effecient stratedgy to be walking around and holding her blinks until a chase.
I personally love that her power has utility in and out of chases and her map pressence was something that made her very fun and unique to play. With these changes you won't be rewarded as much for traveling with her power.
Comments
-
I feel like a 3 second recharge time will not stop her from still being able to use her blinks to apply a lot of map pressure.
4 -
On release:
3 blinks, slower than 4.6m/s but faster than survivors.
After nerf:
2 blinks, slower than survivors. Need to use blinks to transverse maps.
After "rework"
2 blinks, slower than survivors, need to wait 6 seconds to blink again. Need to use ?? to transverse maps?
7 -
What if they just buffed her movement speed to 100%? Seeing as how they want to nerf her map pressure, at least give her a chance to actually chase survivors.
0 -
She is completely butchered
0 -
I honestly doubt it. Of course people will say a few days after PTB, but I believe the majority of people will see that she is still really strong, survivors will just have a bit more fair counterplay. At least I hope so. Like I said somewhere else, this just seems like the exhaustion nerf outcry all over, just this time it's killer mains that can't deal with something becoming more balanced and fair to play against.
0 -
Base nurse IS BALANCED, this pile of trash is 3.5 seconds worse than base nurse for every time she blinks.
It is a HUGE loss in terms of map pressure and chase potential, do the math and see it yourself
0 -
Have to disagree. I just don't believe that giving survivors a bit more time to break line of sight will ruin her in any way. It just allows for actual fair counterplay for survivors in my opinion.
4 -
It's the fact that some people, myself included, said that if they touched her power, it would end up like Legion where it hurts him to use it. This power is DANGEROUSLY close to that, my math may be wrong, but, Survivors gain about the same distance that the Nurse can blink, if she hits them.
2 -
If a Nurse uses chain-blinks to travel around the map and happens upon a survivor, they only need to run in a straight line away from her and they 'win' the chase that just started. That is the result of 3.50 extra seconds of waiting to get 2 blink charges. They do the same thing to skewer it for Trapper and screw killers over in regards to penalising 'hook-camping' when there is no camping.
The devs of course not listened to a damn thing killers have had to say except to twist things as usual.
3 -
But she's only really slowed down when she is fautigued. Survivors don't gain much distance when she can move normally again. Her blink will then easily cover the range she needs to cover, of course depending on how close she got to survivors.
If it really does turn out to be a problem, the devs will probably reduce the recharge time. 2.5 seconds would probably be the sweet spot in that case, reducing the time to you have to wait after double blinking to 2.5 seconds if your math is correct. I wouldn't mind that. I'm just happy she has a recharge time so survivors can have some fair counterplay.
2 -
She's slowed down whenever she isn't blinking; she moves slower than survivors do since her original unjustified uber-nerfing. Having made it necessary to blink in order to chase rather than just bypass loops, the devs inadvertently pushed Nurse towards the playstyle that has been standard ever since.
Speculate all you want on what the devs will do; I will go by their record, not wishful thinking.
1 -
There's really no way you can sugar coat it. The devs have royally screwed over the Nurse. Surely they must have known that Nurse is a highly aggressive killer?
2 -
Yes but it's only 4.75% lower than the running speed of survivors. That will not allow survivors to gain a lot of additional distance once her fatigue is gone, not at all.
Pretty sure if Nurse seems a bit too weak, they will indeed decrease recharge time to 2.5 seconds. Their track record is fine in the recent past, just look at Freddy who is now a very strong killer.
3 -
6 seconds, can you try not twisting it please? It's 3 per charge, beginning as the stun hits. First blink should be almost immediately after stun, and second already charging. Just writing 6 seconds doesn't tell the tale in any way at all.
1 -
A chase can end when a killer stops to break a pallet.
If you think it's fine to defend the devs with wishful thinking, then I am more than fair in criticising them based on their actual past actions, as a basis for judging their probable future ones.
They are double-dipping on design intent for giving survivors a chance to get away. Fatigue already exists for this reason, so slapping yet another cooldown on blink charges themselves means they are either confused or are trying to mask how severe these this particular change actually is.
2 -
Good survivors could abuse maps with lots of walls and LOS breaks and evade Nurse for a long time.
Hell half the time I give up on house loopers because I can get someone else faster across the map than continue running around the house. But now? Haddon field will be impossible to do anything, and other maps with lots of LOS will destroy her.
0 -
Majority of hits with Nurse are after two blinks. You use the first blink to close the distance and the second for the hit. Single hit blinks are not rare but occur when you are already near the target. If they wanted a longer timeout they could of increased fatigue time instead of placing another cooldown on top of it.
0 -
I mean I'm not sure what you are on about. If killers break a pallet survivors can't gain that much distance on a killer. If the chase ends, then there's no chase music, but survivors shouldn't be able to get too much distance on you when you break a pallet. At least Nurse should be able to catch up to that survivor easily with her two blinks.
I just don't feel like survivors will be able to gain that much distance on Nurse after she double blinks. We'll see how it is on the ptb.
And I'm not defending them with wishful thinking, I'm defending them because I believe these changes are good. Recharge time could maybe be decreased to 2.5 seconds, but otherwise, I'm very glad to see these changes to Nurse.
0 -
I don't believe you are genuinely confused and do not actually require it explaining any more than I already have done.
It doesn't matter what you feel: lateral move-speed on characters is a transparent fact. The distance and LoS rules on chase-detection is also a stable game mechanic, even if it is poorly-designed and the devs have made no indication ever that they are going to change it despite making several crucial game-features dependent on it.
You have every right to your opinions, but they are not very useful for anyone else unless they start with an acknowledgement of facts.
0 -
Can confirm you can still travel the map with Nurse in a semi-decent fashion...
if you bring both cooldown addons :/
0 -
I was but whatever. I was just talking about the distance, if a killer breaks a pallet a survivor can only gain so much distance.
Sure, but there are no actual facts as of now. You can't say for a fact that Nurse is now underpowered either.
0 -
She's not underpowered... but she is just a pathetic shell of her former self right now.
0 -
It's enough distance for the game to detect a chase has ended with the survivor declared the 'winner' according to the emblem system. That's if they just run in a straight line in any direction away from the killer. That is what happens when a killer breaks the pallet now: the default decision according to the devs, expressed by the chase-detect mechanic, is that the killer lost and the survivor must be awarded all due credit.
It has been the case also since the emblem system was introduced that Trapper 'loses' any chase where the person he was chasing steps in a trap. These Nurse chases are nakedly an attempt to have the same result occur in any event where the Nurse chain-blinks but does not hit anyone whether they attempt to or not.
These are the raw conclusions from looking at the numbers and if the numbers have not changed, nor will the conclusions.
Whether the Nurse is overpowered or not is an entirely different discusison. What we have cause for anger about is the devs have once again nerfed killers and are not owning up to it nor explaining their reasoning with any clarity.
0 -
Ok so the problem you have is that the game thinks you lost the chase which in change has negative effects on the chaser emblem? That's understandable, but couldn't they just improve the chase detection mechanic in that case? Because the reason they want to give Nurse's blinks a recharge time, as they have explained, is to allow survivors a few more seconds to reach an area in a map where they can break line of sight in order to gain counterplay against her blinks.
I do think now that her movement speed should be increased to 100% so survivors can't gain distance to her by just running in a straight line.
0 -
Again you're defending the devs with wishful thinking. The fact is the devs have expressed no desire to re-work the chase-detection mechanic, yet continue to introduce other mechanics which have dependencies on it.
I've said the devs explanations for the changes are vague, they are humbug. I have explained why and will not repeat. If the claim is that the Blinks must independently recharge in order to give survivors more time to get away, either by breaking line-of-sight or do something else, then Nurse already has that built-in and always has: it's what her fatigue state exists for. If they think fatigue is insufficient, then they should replace it, not double-dip. The fact that they think this is even remotely acceptable means they are still far-off doing evidence-based design or joined-up thinking.
The devs do not listen to killers though. These are changes which are purely survivor-oreintated, like almost all meaningful changes to the game are. We can argue however much about what the devs ought to do; the fact is their record speaks louder and it's appalling.
1 -
Well I personally think you are being way too harsh on the devs and I think this was a good way to nerf Nurse, but I guess we simply have to agree to disagree. You're not the only one unhappy with the game's momentarily balance.
But I do think it's not fair to say the devs don't think about killers. Just this patch we are getting nerfs to insta heals finally, and killers have recieved a nice number of buffs in the past.
0 -
It's not simply the state of the game's balance in the moment; it's the method by which the devs go about it that and their lack of any apparent willingness to improve on it, as well as their demonstrable lack of honesty whilst holding to a pretense of openness. It even goes as far as them removing videos from their Youtube archive of streams that contradict their latest narrative about controversial aspects of the game, such as SWF.
Killers get buffs and survivors get nerfs; this is a superficial and selective reading though that ignores the context in which they happen. Killers get buffs long after such buffs would have been of help. Survivors get nerfs long after such nerfs would have been effective, often they are nerfs to things which already have replacements. The devs think no one notices this just because the vast majority of players(who are mainly survivors) do not.
0 -
What exactly do you mean though? I personally feel like the majority of balance changes they made were pretty good. I feel like the game has improved in many areas it needed improvement in.
0 -
Nurse has really bad map pressure now, at the very least make her faster than survivors
1 -
This is vague, what am I supposed to understand from your post here?
When I explained the double-dipping in regards to Nurse requiring a feature that allows survivors to get away, I explained precisely what I meant. There's no confusion there, no room for interpretation or misunderstanding.
Feel whatever you like. The devs seem to make decisions based on feelings too though, rather than any facts.
0 -
This change really hurt her map pressure the most. She's fallin far from her original spot. I think she needs a little more base move speed to compensate.
0 -
That's it. Without cooldown addons you are a plaything for survivors now.
1 -
You said that their method to balancing this game is bad and that they are not willing to improve the game balance wise. That's what I was replying to. Why do you feel like the devs don't care?
I agree that they could still improve how they try and keep balancing the game, but in my opinion they aren't doing a terrible job at it either. We've seen many good balance changes in the past in my opinion.
Also I say feel, because it's just my opinion on this matter. Just like you have your opinion on this matter.
0 -
I've already talked about the double-dipping issue with Nurse now having to go through Blink recharge + fatigue, but it's clearly not enough though you won't tell me why it's insufficient.
The devs have also gone through several iterations of a ranking-up system, all of which conveniently favour survivors desires at that period in the game. The 'victory cube' system was introduced on the understanding that the survivors version was mere weeks away. It skewed the balance of the game by grotesquely mis-matching opponents(which seems to be the only purpose of the match-making; to make the game look more balanced than it is) whilst providing a disincentive for killers trying to be sportsmanlike and instead they had to min-max every decision and leverage every edge-advantage, thus used to justify nerfs to said options. Instead of cancelling the whole victory cube and rolling-back the changes to killer ranking, the devs kept what they had implemented for killers whilst allowing survivors the far more generous and open legacy system. Remember the devs only justification for this was that a new system was coming soon. That system, the emblem system, came years later.
Let's not forget the missing hook-auras for killers, which the devs first said was a bug they were working on fixing, before admitting it was an intended change, but then later when they removed it said they had 'fixed that bug'. We never got told which version of this nonsense was the truth.
These are not things you engage in if you are trying genuinely to balance the game.
1 -
Her map pressure is the reason why she needed to be changed, mobility has and always will be the most effective mechanic for killers to have, and Nurse was the premier killer in that aspect.
0 -
Demogorgon has the best map pressure once set-up
Freddy can literally teleport to a gen across the map
Hag can teleport to a trap across the map (addon) and still 40m base
Billy
There are powers better suited to map traversal yet they are considered weaker. It wasn't her ability to travel the map well that gives her the edge, it just is baseline part of what a killer NEEDS to be effective. All A/S tier killers have map pressure simply because those without will never reach that tier.
Without her map travel, her double stun, and slow walk speed, Nurse is looking at being less effective everywhere not just in map or chase.
0 -
This nerf to her didn't really do much, she is literally the same with a small cooldown, but they have made her A LOT LESS FUN TO PLAY, and i don't like that.
I really wanted the nurse nerfed into the ground, but also i want people to have fun with her.
0 -
Agreed, devs don’t care though tbh. Entitled survivors always get what they want
1 -
All you have to do is change how you play the game against her and you can really extend your chases with her. People to it do me all the time. I'm by no means a god tier Nurse but I can do fine at rank 1 consistently. Let me tell you it is very possible to loop Nurse, you just do it differently. With the base-kit changes those who DO know how to do this will become impossible to catch. You will almost never be able to catch up after waiting for cooldown after cooldown walking at them like a turtle. It cuts down on the fun of blinking, it cuts down on your map pressure, it cuts down on your chase, and it cuts down on the threat survivors actually feel against the killer.
All around it's bad in high elo where she will get abused, which is the entire point of mastering Nurse so you can actually win against toxic SWF.
2 -
But to be fair all of those killers have some downside to their ability. Demogorgon has to first set up his traps, and they can be destroyed once activated.
Freddy has a long cooldown on his ability.
And Hag, well, she can only teleport if survivors trigger the trap.
Hillbilly is the best other killer with map pressure, his only downside is that objects can be in his way. But to be fair he also has the least tools to help him with looping. Obviously he has a strong instadown attack, but still. Nurse had just as good if not better map pressure as well as better chase potential. So her map pressure taking a small hit shouldn't be a problem.
0 -
It's not a small hit though. It actively takes away minutes of your game by the end of it with all the waiting around doing nothing. She already had her downside of the stun and loud scream announcing she was blinking. She also has objects in her way if her blink ends in them (happens a lot with trees etc..)
0
