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Addressing common arguments FOR the Battlepass...
1) It's free cosmetics.
It costs $10 and approximately (21,500 player level "Devotion"xp) 13.5 hours of matches to complete the pass as of the PTB numbers available. This is assuming the numbers aren't tweaked to increase or decrease the grind.
2) You earn your money back
No, you have a chance to earn more Auric cells. The money you spent is lost. You can only earn the cells if you complete the pass up to that tier. If you're short, your only option is to purchase tiers for 100 cells each or purchase more cells outright.
3) It doesn't affect gameplay
By design it does. A player without charms or skins will see players with charms and be psychologically driven to purchase the pass to earn the charms themselves. This is the same principle as public loot boxes in other games.
4) Don't want it? Don't buy it.
This is where psychological manipulation comes in and how this system is designed to take advantage of people susceptible to this kind of manipulation. I won't get into such an in-depth topic here, but there have been a few studies in the past few years about the longterm effects of this kind of manipulation. You can also research the "Fear of Missing Out" since it works the same way.
5) BHVR needs the $
Last I checked, their annual revenue is estimated at over $35 million. This is encompassing all their projects and not just DbD. The DLC and cosmetics store have done well enough for the game to reach its current point. The game still has frustrating core mechanics issues that are ignored, but I don't think it's a lack of capital that's preventing the fixes needed.
6) The battlepass rewards aren't guaranteed.
You purchase the pass for the chance to grind for the cosmetics you might want. If you don't grind enough you don't get the cosmetic. The store offers cosmetics for a price and it's guaranteed albeit more expensive. If something comes up and someone can't grind enough then they lose their money and the chance to gain the cosmetic they were chasing. Not to mention losing the auric cell reward leaving them to spend another $10 for the next pass.
7) It keeps the game alive
Wouldn't core balance fixes, overhauls of outdated systems and characters leading to fun and exciting gameplay for both sides keep the game alive too? EDIT: Madjura "If the only way to keep the game is alive by adding menial, paid grind to the game then the game isn't alive, it's just a grind simulator at that point."
Comments
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So what you're trying to say is... Hags OP and needs a rework.
Got it, Devs are on it.
🙃
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A strongly agree
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7) It keeps the game alive
Wouldn't core balance fixes, overhauls of outdated systems and characters leading to fun and exciting gameplay for both sides keep the game alive too?
I want to add the following to this:
If the only way to keep the game is alive by adding menial, paid grind to the game then the game isn't alive, it's just a grind simulator at that point.
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meanwhile, pls buff pig
to the original post, you already saw my comment on your youtube vid about how rifts are said to be 70 days long. i'd like to point out something to your second point here. when you buy the 10$ auric cell pack, you get 1,100 cells. assuming you dont have any cells from any previous transactions, and all you have are the 1,100, you have a 100 cell wiggle room, so you dont necessarily have to get all the way to... what was it, tier 68 where the last cells are? im on console so i cant double check. but, i just want to make sure thats known, there is a little bit of wiggle room where you could still get the next pass without spending more money.
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Exactly my thoughts. And:
8) It is addictive. The rift is divided into smaller parts, that are activated in a predetermined date. People who spend money on it, will feel forced to play more frequently to "get their money back", instead of unlocking it in 1 week, then they will play more and more to the point they are addicted. When they are addicted, they will spend more money on the game.
Devs know what they are doing, and this is not ethical.
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They don't expect everyone, or even a majority, to reach the threshold where you earn back the Auric Cells. If that were the case the system could just be free because they won't make money if everyone can reach that point easily.
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XD
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i know, im just making sure the information is out there
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Everything you said is correct, I just wanted to complement your post.
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This is a good point I didn't consider, but 100 cells is enough to buy 1 tier so I guess there is that lol
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100% agree. Battle Passes set a bad standard that I never liked, and I actually like the battle pass BHVR has, but my fear is that it's a slippery slope down into a bad money grind.
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1) it's not for everyone, but if you can invest the time necessary for the big rewards it's absolutely worth it.
2)yep
3)it doesn't. Because it changes nothing of the gameplay. And they call way less attention than the regular cosmetics
4)you can get free charms. And the cosmetics will be avaiable at the store later, you won't "miss out" by not getting it now
5) I have no idea how much money they make and/or need... skipping this one
6)how is this an argument FOR the battlepass? Either way, same thing from 1 apply. You have the time to invest in this? Good. Otherwise, you may not want to buy it.
7)are you saying the argument is wrong? Because it sounds like you agree that having a thing in place that gives rewards for continuous play keeps people in the game. Which is the entire point.
No one(to my knowledge) said it's the only way or even the best way, just that it accomplishes keeping people in the game.
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Making you buy fake currency is another way to for publishers to take more money from you than you planed on spending.
First off, it tries to hide the true cost of what you're buying. They are counting on you to not do the math and find out how much something really costs.
Secondly they could price things out so you wouldn't have extra cells left over. That extra "premium" currency just sits there becoming useless making the skin you bought cost more than the actual list price.
Or you buy more cells because don't want to waste the ones you already have.
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Space Coconut, I have to disagree with this:
2) You earn your money back
No, you have a chance to earn more Auric cells. The money you spent is lost. You can only earn the cells if you complete the pass up to that tier. If you're short, your only option is to purchase tiers for 100 cells each or purchase more cells outright.
You actually save money from buying the premium season pass because not only you regain 1,000 Auric Cells over the course of completing the battle pass, but you also get cosmetics.
Let's say you bought the premium season pass:
Net Gain -1,000 Auric Cells
Then you completed the season pass which gave you all your spent Auric Cells back to you:
Net Gain 0 Auric Cells
The Cosmetics You Earned Through The Season Pass:
Net Gain 10,000 Auric Cells (because that's roughly how much it would cost you if you bought them all individually)
Therefore, if you have the time, I definitely recommend getting the premium, but if you don't, I don't recommend getting it.
Also, I know, I'm a trusted member and you probably think I'm saying this because I have a deal with BHVR. That can't be anymore wrong than it already is because trusted or not, I would be saying the exact same thing here. :)
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Getting the Auric Cells back is not supposed to be the default case.
See my post here for why:
I do not think your claim holds for the majority of players because of this.
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I highly doubt, that you can "earn your money back in 100%", and even if you can, it will be paid with tens hours of grind. this "money", will not be "money", but "auric cells", too.
No matter how hard you try, those 10 bucks, 5000 pesos, 99999 juans of the banana republic or whatever the cost for battle pass is, won't come back to you. You will only receive a funny fictional currency.
I don't say it is bad, but saying that "you can get your money back" is simply not true.
PS. Devs know, that not many players will be able to grind those auric cells. It would be not profitable for them otherwise.
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1 and 2) I agree with. You don't get cash back but you can be refunded for the equivalent amount of cells that you choose what to do with.
3) wanting charms which are just cosmetics has no basis on gameplay.
4) you can say the same thing about the myriad number of skins available now
5) numbers mean nothing. You have no idea how much money they want or need. Supply and demand. Every person selling a product is trying to make money. It's free market economics. If they felt they weren't making enough money they would move on
6) you can buy the premium AFTER you complete the pass. No gambling needed
7) in a way it gives older players something to work towards. And newer players more bloodpoints
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I know, but if you have the time, I made sure to say this in my comment, it's definitely worth buying the premium season pass. Otherwise, it's not worth it in my opinion because you would be wasting money!
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Thank you for this post, i was freaked out by the fact that most people do not have a problem with f2p mechanics arriving in this game and try to defend it with awkward reasoning such as you get your money back and you save money when in both cases, nope you just spend money as ac is not equal to money.
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I'm not really sure what your goal is in your campaign against the battlepass. You're not going to stop Bhvr from doing it. At most maybe you'll change a few people's minds so Bhvr will lose out on a small amount of sales.
If you believe battlepasses should be illegal or regulated, then posting here won't change that.
At the same time that you're calling Bhvr out for their "scummy" tactics, you promote their game by creating YouTube content for it, which is effectively advertisement.
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I personally rather they go this Fortnite style route for extra revenue than some of the other cash grab tactics I've seen. As long as they keep up the releases of new content I'm not worried about it.
From your post it seems like you feel forced to buy it, but I personally don't feel forced. I didn't buy into the Fortnite one while playing very actively till I seen one I liked. It really comes down to personal responsibility. You can't sit there and blame others for actions you could of prevented.
Also, this game is Rated M, so parents need to take responsibility for their kids spending. You want to talk about real manipulation tactics? there is FIFA rated everyone with real cash-grab tactics targeting children. This is far from it.
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1) You're right. They're not free. But if you are able to grind enough it's a pretty decent value.
2) Also correct. But again depending on your ability to grind it is still a good amount of value.
3) It doesn't effect game play though. It might make others want the cosmetics. But that doesn't effect game play.
4) It really is a case of don't buy it if you don't want to though. This is a mature game. If adults can't exercise some self control that's on them. I'm not unsympathetic to those who have legitimate problems. But we're all responsible for our own actions.
5) $35 million in revenue. But what are their expenses? Ghostface, Freddy and Michael were likely not cheap licenses to secure. Not to mention the others. Add in their operating expenses and it's probably not nearly as much as you're thinking. I don't know their financial situation. But I'm not going to assume they need the money or it's just a cash grab.
6) You're correct. They're not. The battle pass is adding more potential rewards for you to grind for. The numbers might need to be tweaked to be reasonable. We'll have to see how it all unfolds before saying for sure.
7) I agree. Fixing core issues needs to be the first priority.
Overall I didn't personally care about the battle pass one way or another. So long as it doesn't become pay to win.
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I’m confident that I can max it out since I play dbd a lot so if I don’t spend the aurics I earn (correct me if I’m wrong) then I’ll have enough for the next one so you’ll only have to pay for it once if you can max it every time.
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That's nice dear.
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Originally I really disliked the idea of battle pass coming into DBD but after seeing how well it's getting implimented I think it's pretty good deal as long as you care for cosmetics. It boils down to self control so if someone has problem with impatience and can't wait 6 months and needs to have their cosmetic now then yes they may not like this system since it "forces" them to buy the battlepass.
1) As long as you play DBD it's free since the rift is targeted to be unlocked around average playtime of 1h daily.
2) Well you gotta ask yourself, have you ever bough anything in DBD and will you buy at least 1 more cosmetic/DLC in rest of DBDs lifespam ? If yes battlepass is good deal for you and if not then I don't understand why would you care for battlepass at all.
3) People need to have self control. If someone gets tempted to buy cosmetics based on other people having them then they have a serious problem since nobody can have everything what others have. By that logic all cosmetics are a scam since they force all players to buy them since someone else has them.
4) Well as I said, players need to be mindful of their money and always consider if what they spent them on is what they really want. BHVR as a company was alway doing their best to give out as much free stuf as they could. I truly dislike how quickly people forget that original game had 100x less content and was far more broken but costed pretty much the same. Since then they gave us TONS of free chapters, cosmetics, maps and what not. Yet unless we get literally EVERYTHING for free people will still call them greedy.
5) BHVR is a company so I don't see why they would stop making more cosmetics when people frequently buy and enjoy them. And as was said many times art team can't really go and fix map design or balance killers. If people want to support the game they have the right to do so via buying cosmetics.
6) You can buy the pass after you've completed the rift to be sure you get your moneys worth.
7) They fix the game as well, slowly but they do. It's just another feature to give people who play a lot something to do.
Overall I can see why you dislike the battlepass and that's fine. For some people it definitely could be addictive way to get their money and time but I think that BHVR did a good job with handling the battlepass.
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Let me rebuke your rebuttals.
1) you pay $10, so anything you get from this isn't free, unless you literally only do the free tier. In which case, yes, it's free cosmetics. But even if you do the paid one, you're being rewarded just for playing the game. You're getting cosmetics and blood points and whatever the rift shards are used for. Free? No. Highly rewarding? Yes.
2) you do earn your money back. Don't nitpick and point out that the money you spent on the cells is gone. You spend money on cells, you spend those cells, you can get those cells back. You can literally just change "money" to "cells" here and the argument is just fine.
3) You're saying a mental trigger to buy cosmetics affects gameplay? It doesn't affect gameplay. They're all cosmetics. What DOES affect gameplay are the challenges you complete to unlock levels on the pass. But those will affect gameplay in a positive manner, forcing people to use specific characters and perks and forcing safe unhooks.
4) this is another area where your explanation is unrelated to the topic. Your answer to "don't like, don't buy" is "well but some people won't be able to not buy!" that doesn't really matter or address anything. That's no different than releasing new chapters or cosmetics. At least now these people have a $10 option to unlock a lot of cosmetics as opposed to $10 for one outfit. Seems the pass will greatly benefit the people you're describing.
5) the problem with looking at profits or revenue as a whole is that the real world doesn't work that way. It's like when people say Microsoft should just buy Nintendo or something because they have tens of billions of dollars. Or to relate it closer to DbD, that BHVR has hundreds of employees, so DbD should be updated and everything much faster. Different projects have different teams. Whatever BHVR has in the bank, it doesn't mean that money is available for the DbD team.
6) yes? You just explained how the BP system works in every game. You might grind enough to unlock everything. You might not. I've bought two Apex battlepasses and not come even close to unlocking everything. It's fine. People understand just fine what they are getting into.
7) yes and no. Fixing core issues is badly needed and will help retain already dedicated players, but it doesn't do much for growing the userbase. Casual stuff like a battle pass and popular licensed content will. Plus, it's not like they can't do both.
The BP is a great way to reward hardcore players who typically grind away for nothing.
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If you are aware enough to understand the risk of a battlepass system, and STILL fall for it's manipulation that's on you.
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Battle Passes are an iffy thing. I've never played a game that had one before, so this is new to me. I like having goals, and I understand that game developers need to keep bringing in money to keep online games alive...
Loot boxes and gacha mechanics, mobile games where you pay to play for more than five minutes a day... those are bad. At least with this you're not forced to pay; you can play all day for free if you want, no limits. You can still unlock some things on the free path. You know exactly what you're getting: you're not gambling. You can wait to see how much you've unlocked on the free path before buying the premium pass so you don't pay in and then never earn anything.
I dunno, it's not live, yet, it's hard to judge how it'll really be. And "well, at least it's not cancer like some other games I've played" might not be the best way to judge a new mechanic, but it's not like saying I don't like it will stop it from happening, so... I guess I'll find out what I really think when it goes live.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
They said content will be available in the store after a certain time, and to me that's enough, since it won't cause "fear of missing out" unless you want everything asap (in which case you might have an attitude problem).
Also, to my understanding you can buy the premium after you grinded it, so you can do it when you're sure to get what you want.
About point two, what do you expect, MCote to write you a 10$ check when you finish the Rift? Obviously people say money referring to ingame currency.
All in all, I'm not a fan of battlepass systems myself, but from what I see they did it right.
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13 hours is literally 3 days of DbD for me.
Streamers will have this pass maxed in 1-2 days
You get 50+ days if someone doesn't complete it something went terribly wrong and they couldn't play or they intentionally chose not to.
13 hours over 50 days is an average of 1 or 2 match a day
1 hour a day and you'll be done in 13
If the numbers aren't increased the pass will be easily finished by even a casual DbD player.
This game is a binge play addiction for many i hope its not too short.
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All of this. Thank you for making what should be a pinned post.
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actually, according to the website, rifts will last 70 days. also, based on his youtube video i believe he meant 13.5 hours after doing ALL the Archive challenges. dont really know why he didnt mention this in his post. but still, i agree, it isnt really that much. i could get that done in a week.
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Since you'll be playing matches to do the archive challenges I thought it would be better to exclude that. We can assume that the majority of people who play both roles (unlike myself) will have no problem completing the archive challenges in very few attempts. So their hurdle may be the xp required.
My problem will be accomplishing the survivor challenges as a killer main with 0 BP invested in the survivor side...
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well although most will probably be doing the challenges, i feel like its an important thing to point out.... whats the grind WITHOUT doing any of the archive challenges? that could be a scary number
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Agree on everything! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
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I just feel like people just like something to complain about and it's easy to do so with this because it costs money. It's just so convenient to moan about it.
For a game that has nothing to do but to but grinding for perks what is the harm of a battlepass to get a little more out of the game for more dedicated players. You're definitely gonna be contributing to the games growth with the financial backing and players who don't want the premium pass are in no way being left behind.
I don't wanna get too involved in this right now but once I try the Battlepass out I'll share my thoughts.
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In my opinion, I feel like the battle pass is a bit of a slap in the face. I never felt like DBD’s monetizations are reasonable. The cosmetics being $10 each is money grubby cause you’re paying for a outfit that’s barely worth $5. Yes it looks great, but it seems unreasonable to keep the prices so marked up then have a battle pass....there’s a limit here.
My worries are more on if Behavior thinks later down the line they can get away with even more. That’s actually what I’m worried about. I feel there are other ways to monetize DBD here as well they haven’t explored. An example being another volume of the dbd soundtrack.
Let’s face it, since release, there’s been way more music produced for this game that could make a second volume. I have no idea why they haven’t tried that. If there isn’t a legal way, the pirating method is always the best way. I hate that cause I actually have some huge favorites from DBD’s music catalog that aren’t commercially available. Plus, I actually think the base soundtrack sucks with the main theme being an exception. It all blurs together. I’d rather have all the chapter and event themes instead.
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I only argue that you get your money back if you buy it with auric cells. If you don't it's a waste.
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3) It doesn't affect gameplay By design it does. A player without charms or skins will see players with charms and be psychologically driven to purchase the pass to earn the charms themselves. This is the same principle as public loot boxes in other games.This is not gameplay-related.
All in all the battlepass takes nothing away from the main game. Probably the only thing it takes away from us, is the dev's time working on it rather than making fixes to the game. But we can't really fault them that, they need to make a buck.
If you are just psychologically disturbed to feel you are left out... well tough luck. Buy the pass then.
We already have auric-cell only cosmetics in the game. This is just an extension of that.
It's not a big deal to me. If it's a big deal to you.... spend the money. You are the type of person the Pass is designed for.
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1 - Its optional so only $10 if you choose to buy it and 13.5h isn't that much in this game
2 - Choosing to spend the $10 one of payment which enables you to earn the others for free isn't exactly a bad system. Infact compared to others it's pretty damn good.
3 - and if someone sees someone with a chocolate bar does that mean you HAVE to buy it what you are describing is someone wanting something not needing it.
4 - Yes don't buy it as I said above its a want not a need. To say it is predatory puts the whole onus onto the business and nothing onto the consumer. People get addicted to alcohol, chocolate and many things does that mean everyone selling those are then using predatory practices? The term is being used as a way to shift the blame of a problem some people have not the actual business.
5 - BVHR may have a revenue of 35m but what is the working profit? Revenue means nothing in a business it's what it takes home that counts. 35m compared to say activision blizzards 7.5billion is small fish in comparison.
Now take Ubisoft which has grown a lot over the past 5 years. In 2014 it did 266m in sales with an estimated loss of 65m. Selling is never the same as making money and hence Ubisoft and are now selling around 1.4 billions and making large profits.
6 - Again this is someone's choice. Some may grind it, others may be happy with a small amount and willing to pay more and many will not buy it. That is How any business works the consumer has to chose to buy from a company such as this. Nothing is ever forced.
7 - No one said it's the only way to keep it alive bug to work on everything you stated takes time and money. This is why lots of large games release a new one each year or two as rhey want the initial revenue and season pass sales. To work on a game for the long haul means you need constant revenue coming in and when you expand the team as it grows you have to make even more.
The game has DLC which has always been cheap considering so instead of reasoning that price which actually affects gameplay another method which is purely cosmetic and not needed seems alot more reasonable.
You really seem to have a bee in your bonnet about battlepasses and constantly blame the companies and remove any blame from the consumer who choses to buy it.
I suppose if someone chose to buy a car for 150k and 1 year later they found themselves in debt as they spent too much on other things and could no afford the payment that is then on the car dealer for selling a car as the consumer just couldn't help but buy.
People have to take responsibility for their own actions or you just end up enabling them. An addict doesn't get better by blaming others they get better by realising what is wrong within and changing themselves.
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