To everyone who dislikes the Rift, this video might change your mind.
I feel like this video pretty much sums up how I feel about the rift, and why it’s definitely not a scam or cash grab as many people seem to believe.
Please watch the video to completion and then share what you think!
Comments
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literally watching this video right now :P
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This post feels like a scam and a view grab...
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But what if I like scams?
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Well I can assure you that I am no way associated with Paulie Esther or his channel. I just really liked his video and viewpoints and wanted to share it here since many people seem to have a problem with the rift.
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1k to unlock
For the lazy 100 to progress
Nah, there won't be people who would do that.
🤔
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Is this sarcasm I honestly can’t tell lol.
If it is though, you should watch the video as this is one of the main points he addresses.
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I was looking for a video like this, very insightful.
I thought the dia de los meurtos skins and licensed items were part of the battle pass so this gives me something to consider. The only ones I would have a vested interest in is the Hillbilly and Trapper skins since they’re skinless for me - but I don’t play hillbilly and I prefer seaside psycho for trapper more if I’m investing money into him.
That said, the charms are really cute and a variety in cosmetics would be nice. I’ll probably end up doing what he said and see how far I get.
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People definitely will purchase all 70 levels of a Battle Pass without hesitation.
And why..? That's not a question I can answer.
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Because some people understand that continuing to financially support a game they love us the only way to guarantee it stays alive in the longer term. It's really not that hard of a question to answer once you understand economics/capitalism.
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Enlighten me, i can't wait
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Honestly if someone has enough expendable income to waste $70 on a battlepass, that’s on them. Chances are those people are already buying the $100 auric cell packs currently in the game.
For the average consumer though the battlepass system is extremely friendly, and being able to buy the pass at any time and retroactively get the rewards is a huge deal.
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Businesses require money to keep going. Not really hard to grasp. What happens if you stop paying your electric bill? Well the same thing happens to the folks at Behavior if they can't pay their bills or buy groceries.
If you want Dead by Daylight to keep being developed you need developers. And developers need money to live.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
Love and capitalism rarely meet, except in regards to the greed and money belonging to the criminally wealthy.
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Love this guy, 23min Video, not a single critical thought.
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Are you going to work for free? If not, don't expect Behavior to. If yes, then enjoy being homeless.
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They require Money? Oh no!
Thanks for the info, i think your Knowledge is quite limited. Not only do i have a Little bit over 100 employes in my Company but i also value share- / Stakeholder equally. I do not only run a Company that generates profit via enhancing lifequality of People that have disabilities. But there is much more to getting Revenue and making profits than only offering your products/Services on the market. I don't know if you figured that out yet but there are just so many possibilites what you can do with the money such as buyin shares of other companies, you know the good ones?
But enough of that, thanks for your enlightening insight about economics and Business. BHVR is close to about 600 employees so if you think you Need to buy a rift pass because that is some small indie company, you are wrong. In 2008 they made close to 30 Million in Profit, they have around 200million players on mobile.
Should a company do everything for Money? Absolutely not and that is why i am so concerned about f2p in paid games. On a sidenote, i have several living places and not all in just one country.
Post edited by Rizzo on3 -
Great contribution to the conversation thanks.
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Yeah seems pretty neato.
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It doesn't matter one bit if their other products make money. If DBD doesn't make money then they'll stop making new content.
It's not hard concept to grasp. If your company had 2 products but one wasn't bringing in money, you'd drop it or it could sink your other product.
30 million is not a lot of money for Game Studio.
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It basically sums up how I feel about it, too. My only concern is some of the challenges seem a bit harder than I was expecting. I'd like it if they removed the stipulation that certain ones have to be completed in a single game. But they said they were monitoring things closely, so I'm sure if, when the archives came out, we discovered that the challenges were quite difficult to complete in practice and let them know that, I expect they would be open to making changes.
Overall, I'm excited!
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Our culture's entire modern concept of love has been shaped by capitalism. To think otherwise is foolish, no offense. How do you find love? By going on interesting dates that cost one or both parties money. How do you express your commitment to loving your partner? By spending tens of thousands of dollars for a wedding. How to you then celebrate that love? By buying roses and anniversary presents with specific stipulations for milestones (25 yrs = silver, 50 yrs = gold.)
Of course not everyone has the financial means to fully participate in these rituals but they are the clear expectation of how you are supposed to express love in our capitalist society. Still think love and capitalism rarely meet?
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I like lore, and the challenges gives me something to do... It may not increase the replay-ability long after I P3-50 all my Killers... But it'll give me more to do rather than a daily and even work towards the lore.
Maybe one day they'll increase the prestiges so we can have like... P5-30s or something like that... It would give me a lot more to do if they did. Cause once all your characters or for me Killers are done... than Idk what else to do.
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Just because you own a business and "several living places" doesn't make you an expert on every industry. I'm willing to bet your industry has certain business practices that you fall in line with because that's how business is done.
It's so tiring to hear everyone vilifying BHVR for keeping pace with the practices of their industry. It's not like they're the ones that invented this model of revenue streams. The reason they're doing it is because the market supports it. If it's not popular and people don't buy it they're not going to continues the battle pass model. If you don't want to support it then don't buy it. But stop trying to act like you have some moral high ground here.
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Shameless name dropping now too!?
Have you no limits to how far you will sink! ^.~
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This video did change my mind. But in the opposite direction. I was excited. I even bought the auric cells already in anticipation. But this video exposed how hard and frustrating the challenges will be. They look intentionally designed to make sure you fail at finishing the Rift. This broke my heart.
Behavior please make the challenges reasonable for average players and not luck based stuff like "grab 4 survivors"
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You would lose that bet as that is what i am most proud of, treating my customers Right and that is what they do appreciate.
You want an example? CDPR.
Showed all the other triple AAA the finger with how they handled DLC, showed everybody you can make those games without any microtransactions. They don't stop when it Comes to their games but also their platform.
Sure i am not an expert on everything, but to act like f2p mechanics are inevitable because it is possible to do them is outright a lie.
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People seem to be missing an important fact about what happens when you give someone else your money, especially with no specific contract. This company is not contractually obligated to continue Dead By Daylight just because you buy cosmetics, dlcs, anything else they throw at you to buy. You purchasing something, does not mean you are entitled to gain more content. Once the money goes to them, they spend it how they see fit, not on what you "hope" they spend it on... They could very well spend the money on another game etc. Or even a mansion.... It's theirs now... Not yours. And not dead by daylight's either.
I hope that's clear to people...
@Endstille Even with all your great points, people don't seem to want to listen...
Feels like I keep hearing, "WELL DBD IS GOING TO DIE IF WE DONT DO SOMETHING. CALL UPON THE CALVARY. Where's the charity donations hurry! We're talking bankruptcy potential here.... when they are in excess of millions... SHH we don't discuss those things..." erm.. okay. Sure.. Let's not question their incentives or motives, and the future of this game......
As far as the video is concerned, I am really disappointed no one seems to know anything in its entirety. It didn't make me go YAY let's support this now, either. Good, bad or ugly. For me it remains to be seen how this will turn out and I also agree, I think it didn't have a "critical thought". I was expecting more from what I heard on the forums. I was disappointed in it. :( And I don't see how it shows that the rift isn't a scam or cash grab. If the only excuse and reason for that is "You make your money back", No you don't. You make the auric cells back, MAYBE. it is essentially money you turned into a gift card, and also a rebate (which the video mentioned as well). They will bank on people not being able to finish and get their money and have to spend more each time.
I'm just pointing these things out. And I am not saying I agree one way or another about certain things. "We'll see" is more my stance on it. But the arguments and defense on it, just doesn't add up for me, personally.
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I didn't say the battle pass was inevitable because it's possible. I said it's happening because the market supports the practice. And if it doesn't they won't continue the battle pass.
Also, you are saying that BHVR is treating their customers wrong because they are introducing an optional feature that includes free content so players aren't required to buy the battle pass? Ummm. . . Ok?
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😂 I feel so dirty.... next thing you know I’m gonna start telling people to go subscribe to his channel.
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So you think they should include lootboxes and premium accounts as well? The market supports those as well.
I am not saying that they treat their customers wrong but there have been anti consumer choices in the past, pls do remember of the ash-dlc and MoM. Iirc all people basicly said this was going to hurt the game, did they care? Just when probably enough people bought it they said okay let us balance that one. To me sounds like a bait and switch. They didn't care what it did to already weak Killer or how it did affect the game.
To the rift pass, I think there are enough Posts/threads on this Forum which do explain why f2p mechanics are very anti consumer. It is some Kind of a Grey area of Manipulatiing your customers and deceiving them. Until a few days ago people defended it with " you are going to get your Money back" which you don't. They obviously didn't understand the diffrence between ac and € or $.
Gameplay is not going to be affected by it. That is wrong too as you can see that there are already challenges like sacrifice 2 survivors with noed during EGC. If not for a challenge such as this I probably wouldn't run noed on any Killer but there you go. Farming people letting them get to the end only for that but w/e and that was just lvl 2, I really wonder what lvl 3 and 4 have in store for us. That is speculation, at least for me, since i switched back to live but yeah I almost smell the complains about the short amount of time and not being able to complete due to disconnects.
Thanks, I appreciate it. Several people you included, did make a lot of good Posts about the issue and it seems like even more people do not have an issue with it. I just would hate to be part of the "told you so".
You know what I Always hated about this community? Not Talking about everybody ofc but many people have this binary viewpoint, you either are a Killer or Survivormain. I feel like it is a small part that do actually Play both sides and this seems to be a General attitude. You either praise everything a Company does or you are a mindless hater. This can also be seen in the discussions about balance, somebody Shares an opinion, put time and effort into it and people drop a one liner on it.
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@Endstille Yeah, I am starting to notice those same things as well. I see a lot of trolling too.
It's really nice to see the rare discussions and talking it out. Feels like I see the same argument, and it just gets repeated in another way... or the you just don't KNOW, "You haven't lived!"... and it gets personal. I don't know... There was another thread talking about how this game was "free"... lol.. and someone made a really great argument, and it completely changed my view, it was enlightening. My view was kind of similar to these guys, "Its all good!" But I was actually just ignorant. Plain and simple, there's no getting around that. I wasn't fully aware and basically mimicked like a parrot about things I didn't fully know, because the dev's even admit they don't even know everything. ( which who knows how accurate that is anymore).
I think trust is very important for a company to have with its customers. And for me.. I am now on the fence with these guys. Enough that I won't recommend or support them, until they gain that back from me, personally.
In any case I am not going to be all on board with how they are handling any of this, situation, and I've yet to see an argument to even support this practice being thrown in here, like it is, on top of all the other "stuff" they are doing...
Also, HOLY CRAP. You made an excellent point about MoM and ash. Everyone knew that perk was amazing etc. And they flocked to it and bought it, basically every game I had there were several ash's. But then oh, ya let's nerf it, to the extent you literally can't successfully use it once during a normal game, (I've watch a streamer go out of their way to activate it for hours on end). Oh, and no refunds if you only bought it for that etc, Of course they wouldn't offer to do that. Yea. You hit the nail on the head there. They could have not released it in that condition, they could have done several other ways to go about it, but chose not to.
And not even mentioning how they are marketing the "sale" aspect of the rift, which just makes me go -_- I mean seriously they came out with the price of cosmetics to start with, and now they are essentially saying those were so outrageously pricey, here's a DEAL for you. And when people go "well they could have made it more expensive!"... I just want to *facepalm*.... Just literally all of this is further fueling my distrust towards this company. *sigh*
I appreciate actual discussions because it saves me from being ignorant. I am glad I know NOW, instead of finding out later on, and getting hit with a "I told you so" because I missed the red flags.
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Ah yes, the company that overworks their workers, barely pays them and gets ass licked by everyone?
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Are you a whistleblower ? o.o
Edit: I'm just wondering how you know, I never heard of it personally.
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No one (at least not me) is saying that every penny spent on Dead by Daylight goes back into Dead by Daylight. Of course their revenue is going to be spent in a variety of ways. But if the revenue stream dries up the game will not continue to be supported in the ways the community wants. People choosing to spend their money on battle pass and cosmetics is about them wanting to give financial support to a company/product that they like.
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I think they should put whatever they want in their game. If people don't like it and refuse to buy it they will take that feature away. I think your argument that they are being manipulative to their player base is weak. No one is being forced to buy anything they don't want to. And perks are reworked all the time to provide better balance. To suggest that they are purposely trying to trick people into buying DLC for OP perks and then pulling a bait and switch seems kind of paranoid. How do you explain why some perks get buffed?
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I feel like, if you wanted to just donate, then just donate? Because really, wouldn't that actually be better? With what you are saying I mean. They are spending money and resources designing, making sure the clothing fits and doesn't bug out etc That's alot of time and effort and money/labor. just on all the cosmetics and now charms too. Instead if the money was just donated, wouldn't that better fuel the ways the "community wants"? They could save on all of that.
People seem to be afraid that this company's money will dry up/disappear.... That can happen even if you throw MILLIONS at them (which they have, btw). If they misuse or misappropriate that money... it don't matter, how much you gave, it will still end up disappearing anyway. They have been making amazing profit.. I've not seen anything to suggest they need any extra handouts.. Regardless, you are still taking a risk.
Again, if this was a free to play game, I can understand all of this. You want to support something that is free and you have access to all the content, they are making $0 initial profit... but with DBD, you have to purchase it, you have to purchase the extra content not already packaged within the main game etc. They have several ways of revenue already in place...
Do you think every single game out there should be like that? Making cosmetics, freemiums, lootboxes, battlepasses, no more actually free games etc etc. How do all the other games stay afloat I wonder. Because they don't need to do all those things.(There are 1 time payment apps out there that have made millions of dollars itself from costing $1).. I mean these are just things to question.... imo.
I'm never going to tell anyone how to spend their own money, but I still don't necessarily agree with how they are going about it. I also question where this will end..
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You're not going to tell anyone how to spend their money. You're just going to be condescending and minimize those people who do want to spend money on this game by saying "If you want to donate, just donate money." I'm not donating money, I am purchasing items that I feel make my game experience more enjoyable. If you want to have a debate you should at least come up with an argument that doesn't require you to twist the words of others.
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Also, no one is saying they are afraid BHVR is going to run out of money (twisting words again). You are also making up arbitrary rules. In your world you can't pay for a game up front and continue to support them in the future? Why not? If you don't want to that's fine. Maybe you aren't telling people how to spend their money but you are implying that those who choose to spend it are beneath you.
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This makes sense, but I think something you're not touching on is how the reinvestment of revenue is being handled by the company.
The Tomes are absolutely fantastic, and I am not opposed to a battle-pass that you can retroactively buy if you manage to complete it on the free side for all the rewards. Tomes add depth and content to what has become a very stale gaming experience in DBD, but I'm sure I speak for many people when I say I'd rather have gamebreaking bugs, proper balance, optimization and gameplay fixes before lore and new content.
What worries me is that by supporting BHVR with buying the battlepass, you are not supporting the further development and optimization of the game, but rather more revenue generating content that is mostly geared towards, well, creating revenue, not improving the gameplay experience.
TL;DR
If BHVR showed that they put gameplay health on top of their priority list, rather than money-making content (DLC/Rift), then I would definitely buy the Rift as a show of support to them and their business practices. This is not the case with the DBD team currently; they are more concerned with making money than ensuring the gameplay is at a high standard, and the bugs are fixed at a reasonable timeframe. They have shown their priorities and what they will continue to do with our money, and that is something I cannot support anymore.
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And whatever happened to the weekly dev streams? They used to keep in contact with us. A dev stream where we could talk about the difficulty of rift and such could go a long way. I just recently came back after a 6 month break to find that they no longer do weekly streams and are outright hiding from Rift discussion.
What happened? When did they sever contact with the players?
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It's for the youtubers who will buy the whole pass right away and showcase all those cosmetics for views.
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They don't overwork their Workers, they expect them to crunch and say so at the interview. And no they do not barely pay them either. That would be Blizzard at 75% compared to Industry Standards.
I am sorry no, if they suddenly decide to reduce the bp gained by 50% (idc if it is via actually a reduction, raising cost in bloodweb or whatever) and sell premium accounts to double bp gain, i think some People will buy it, even when it would be disgusting.
I think I understand where you are coming from, you believe that the market will self regulate if i am not mistaken. Take lootboxes for example, even when most People say nope, only a few whales make up for it. Lootboxes literally abuse mental disorders which is not Right imo. I would uninstall and be out of here, Change every review to negative and than i would be gone.
Okay so how would you explain legion and ash? In both cases People were concerned with the product they released, they did it anyway. Legion was more About his playstyle and the abuse that was possible with him. Who do you think would've bought ash if there wasn't anything good in it? Do you think the numbers be the same (replacing current MoM with release of MoM)?
How come you find the Argument to be weak? It is the very nature of the Things they introduced, you do not have to believe me and can read upon it. Do check what Purpose ingame currencies fullfill, why they are made and you will see that it is in the very nature of These Things to manipulate People. Check on riftpass, battlepass, seasonpass (i think this in Apex the case not the usual preorder of dlc) whatever you want to call it and check how they came to being a Thing and what foundations those stand upon.
Why perks get buffed? Cause too many are useless alot of them are bandaids to fix core issues. For perks being reworked all the time some seem to be totally ignored or how do you explain insidious, monstrous shrine?
Hey,
I don't know if it actually was a bait and switch but Looking at it, makes me feel like it was.
I've probably just been burned too many times by companies where at some Point greed took over. Literally look at Blizzard Right now. I know there is quite the diffrence between the two yet I hope they never go that route. I am just worried for Things to come, in the end i do hope that i am wrong.
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TL;DR
If BHVR showed that they put gameplay health on top of their priority list, rather than money-making content (DLC/Rift), then I would definitely buy the Rift as a show of support to them and their business practices. This is not the case with the DBD team currently; they are more concerned with making money than ensuring the gameplay is at a high standard, and the bugs are fixed at a reasonable timeframe. They have shown their priorities and what they will continue to do with our money, and that is something I cannot support anymore.
This. We've been asking for simple stuff like Rank rewards since the very moment the first player went Rank 1 back in the day. Devotion was added but its basically useless, as the shard gain is too low and unrewarding.
Behavior's not exactly doing much to earn our respect.
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Wut...
First of all. I thought we were having a civil discussion. I was genuinely trying to see it from your perspective. I was not trying to talk down or be condescending to you or anyone even in the slightest.
You seemed to be implying that DBD should have some funding... or something.. Which clearly got misinterpreted from what I was suggesting then. Which simply put I do not understand the view point that DBD needs extra money, and we should just give it to them...
You said, "wanting to give financial support" <- This just ... Idk. doesn't make sense to me. If I misunderstood you, you could have just clarified that, instead of going off saying all this other stuff. I am a pretty reasonable person...
If they make cosmetics that you have to purchase and you choose to buy. Go right ahead...
If they are doing shady business practices... I have an issue.
You are accusing me of twisting your words, yet you are actually twisting mine. And not only that, you accuse me of twisting it more than once "again".
Also, no one is saying they are afraid BHVR is going to run out of money (twisting words again).
^--- I am not saying you or anyone in this thread, I didn't point anyone out specifically) but there are people that are saying such things. And that is what I seriously don't understand because I have been seeing it very often about talks the game will be ending etc etc. Now I did say "People" I only meant some people. I could of spoken better. But to say no one, is also incorrect.
You are also making up arbitrary rules.
^- Huhh??
In your world you can't pay for a game up front and continue to support them in the future?
^- Completely incorrect
Why not?
^- IDK you tell me you said it?
If you don't want to that's fine.
^- Thanks
Maybe you aren't telling people how to spend their money but you are implying that those who choose to spend it are beneath you.
^-- What ?????? I don't know where you got all this.
My entire post... was asking you about what you were saying, as I've already said, which clearly got misinterpreted...
I then stated that when you give a company money it is a "risk" in that you do not know how they will spend it, and assuming it is going all to the game, isn't exactly accurate.
I then said, free to play games MAKE SENSE with having extra things, you pay for as ways for them to make profit. As for DBD or PAID games, them having DLC's already having to purchase the game, those are already profit, as well as the cosmetics they have already had over the years... All that is profit. I'm saying they are making quite a bit of profit... That was my point.
Then I asked if you felt that every game should have every single avenue of making profit, like would that be okay if DBD suddenly had lootboxes and all that stuff... And I said.. these things are just to question, IN my opinion. Which maybe this was offensive to you .... idek... Sorry if it was.. I was asking it more to try to get an understanding of why you feel the way you do, was it regarding this game only, or more. Or what types of games etc... I was legit just trying to understand you viewpoint. But don't even worry about it. It's all good.
Then I said I will question where this could continue to go... along with what I already stated above.
*stares blankly*
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@Endstille yeah, I got you. Certain things are questionable. I am also worried about the future, that's mostly what I am thinking about. I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt. I am taking a wait and see approach.
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Still hasn't convinced me. Battlepasses and lootboxes leave a bad taste in my mouth. Psychological manipulation of people whose brains are not fully formed.
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Obviously, no offense to BHVR, but I just cannot stand them.
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@Pulsar Well, I do mean a little offense to BHVR. Battlepasses are a norm in F2P games like Paladins, Fortnite, Realm Royale, et cetera.
But in a game that already has an MSRP buy-in cost, plus quarterly DLCs, plus a robust cosmetics shop where the average price is $10 per skin, then dropping a Battlepass into the game stinks to high-heaven of a wanna-be EA business model.
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Meh. I love Battlefront 2 and we all know how that started out.
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