Am i the only one that see the killers complaining about survivor perks is stupid?

There is no counterplay to Sprint Burst, Self Care, Decisive Strike, or Adrenaline.
There are perks that mitigate the effects of Decisive Strike, but nothing that can reliably counter Sprint Burst or Self Care.
Adrenaline, because it gives a Sprint Burst in addition to the healing, isn't countered by NOED or Devour Hope either, the latter of which is often destroyed before the end of the trial.

I don't have an issue with any of these perks except DS. The others only slightly delay the inevitable against me

SB getting nerfed, DS getting nerfed, SC getting nerfed. all running perks types getting nerfed. So in the end killers have nothing to complain about if after all these nerfs which they asked for. If you still can't get the survivor then that's on you.

As @Doc_W__HOLLIDAY said, it only slightly delays the inevitable if you're a competent killer and plan ahead.

@popoles said:
Again, Counter means, that you completely nullify the perk, so the survivor cannot use it at all.

DS: Enduring and UP: The first one makes the stun a bit faster, the second one makes the Skill Check harder to hit (but it's still easy).
SB: 33.33% of killers only have these add-ons, and they would have to use it every time to counter it. It also costs Bloodpoints, but SB is one-time buy (if you don't count tiers).
Self Care: I love this perk, because my Nurse has a big advantage when somebody uses it near me . However, Coulrophobia, Dying Light and Thanatophobia are not big counters, it just takes longer to heal yourself.
Adrenaline: Renders Freddy even more useless as it wakes you up and heals with a 5 second 150% movement speed. Honestly, I don't really care about this perk.

All I see are complaints about not being able to completely nullify something instead of adapting. I don't run Ds and only tried running it 6x last reset when I hit rank 12. 5x forgot to use it 6th time Freddy and 3 others rage quit.

I didn't run it at all this season on any survivor, instead I adapted my perks to fit my playstyle. I've hit rank 1 and pretty much stayed around there since. I'll probably switch things out to try some new things out soon.

Lastly counter doesn't mean you completely nullify it, that's what the term nullify means. For BBQ you counter it by hiding behind gens, doesn't always work but that's how killers say to counter it. For Nurses Calling you counter it by healing outside her terror radius. That's not nullifying it, just countering it temporarily since if she gets close it's no longer countered.

@Orion said:

What you see is a debunk of the "these perks have a counter" myth, nothing more. Nice try dodging the issue, though.

What I see is you dodging the points I made yet again because you can't refute them. You and the rest of the killer mains whenever a survivor complains about BBQ. You say hide a behind a gen since that counters it. But since we all know that doesn't completely nullify BBQ it only counters it. So if now we go by your new definition you've all been lying this whole time because hiding behind a gen doesn't counter it.

Here's simple fact every perk has a counter, you just don't want to run sad perks that counter said perks. Because they don't completely nullify it. Well time to get those big killer pants on and stop with the excuses now that all the nerfs are coming.

You got your flashlight nerfs, SC nerf, SB nerf, DS nerf (incoming) pallets nerfed, so the only thing you have left is a few things. Once the devs fix those you whiny bunch have nothing left excuse wise. You and the other few keep hiding behind excuses and semantics while others like @Doc_W__HOLLIDAY adapt and have no issues.

Perhaps it's you that has no counter due to your gameplay choices, not because the perks limit you.

Counter [TRANSITIVE] to take action in order to oppose or stop something or** reduce its negative effects**

There just shot down your entire argument in it's tracks.

@powerbats said:

@Orion said:

What you see is a debunk of the "these perks have a counter" myth, nothing more. Nice try dodging the issue, though.

What I see is you dodging the points I made yet again because you can't refute them. You and the rest of the killer mains whenever a survivor complains about BBQ. You say hide a behind a gen since that counters it. But since we all know that doesn't completely nullify BBQ it only counters it. So if now we go by your new definition you've all been lying this whole time because hiding behind a gen doesn't counter it.

Here's simple fact every perk has a counter, you just don't want to run sad perks that counter said perks. Because they don't completely nullify it. Well time to get those big killer pants on and stop with the excuses now that all the nerfs are coming.

You got your flashlight nerfs, SC nerf, SB nerf, DS nerf (incoming) pallets nerfed, so the only thing you have left is a few things. Once the devs fix those you whiny bunch have nothing left excuse wise. You and the other few keep hiding behind excuses and semantics while others like @Doc_W__HOLLIDAY adapt and have no issues.

Perhaps it's you that has no counter due to your gameplay choices, not because the perks limit you.

Counter [TRANSITIVE] to take action in order to oppose or stop something or** reduce its negative effects**

There just shot down your entire argument in it's tracks.

Bbq is extremely strong no ones denying it but every killer always explains what the problem is with nerfing it. A lack of time for hunting. If your not in immediate chase after hooking constantly then survivors will easily outrun your hooks with gen progression. Honestly i couldn't give a ######### about bbq's aura reading when I'm billy I just want the bp. But Its incredibly important for immobile killers like pig and leatherface. As for your counter statement its clear that enduring alone is not effectively counter ds as its still killing the momentum of killers buying survivors time to get to a palette and restart the chase. Would you like to play in a slow gen completion meta with aura reading perks nerfed or removed and an infuses on stealth. Because last i checked most survivors prefer the chase game play. Their is no choice in stopping the ds the ball is firmly in the survivors court the killer cant take any action to stop ds no hit or attack. Juggling doesn't always work because most ds players will stay away from hooks when getting downed.

The change to pickup was not aimed at nerfing flashlights it was aimed at sparing the killer additional time to hook and move back on to the chase. Adapt to make (something) suitable for a new use or purpose; modify. The killer does not modify decisive in any meaningful way that the survivor cannot with ease counter play.

@powerbats said:
**Counter [TRANSITIVE] to take action in order to oppose or stop something or reduce its negative effects
**
Again I never said nullify, that was you lot saying it, a counter is a temporary effect as the definition above says. Ds is a one time use, once it's gone it's gone and BBQ doesn't need nerf and most killers run it. It isn't just the immobile killers that run it. My point about BBQ which you completely ignored was that killers say the way to counter it is to hide behind a generator.

Your Enduring perk isn't meant to completely negate ds as the definition above says it reduces it's negative effects. Now they could change it so that it would either completely nullify it or make it so that it's a 15% skill check chance.

The flashlight change via animation was actually quite nice and it was based upon the flashlights primarily since the time was so long. It made flashlight saves super easy if someone was close. The new animation is a little quick even as a killer. The speed is fine it's the animation that's so disturbing instead.

As for the last part that's a crock since if the killer adapts to what the survivor does they can counter it as well. It's like a chess game, each side makes a move and the other side tries to counter that move. The person that plans ahead by more moves usually wins in both games.

I always leave the obsession alone other than to burn that ds up early since then others will try and take the hit/decoy me off the obsession. The obsession if not playing smartly will almost always lead you to the other survivors. Thereby interrupting gen progress and usually getting you a quick hit or 2 in the process.

Except its not a one time use it can occur up to 4 times granted the non obsession will need some more time to get it to proc. You still haven't addressed your use of UP which is advice that is damaging and hurting killer who want to go the distance. I'll agree on the flashlight situation after thinking about it, it makes more sense that it make those saves harder. However you envision DBD as a chess game. Except its not. Its an asymmetrical game. Their is a designated power role its should be the one forcing survivors to adapt.

Perks like ds that undermines the killers power role to such a degree is embarrassing. You clearly have no understanding of what an asymmetric game is. The killer should not be the one countering survivors it should be the other way around. The killers powers and perks should define how survivors need to play. However the killers is the one who has to adapt his kit. When in god names does a survivor have to adapt their kit.If you were right every god damn survivor wouldn't have the same perks equipped all the time.

The only problem is now survivor's need to adapt to killers who have been handicapped by many of the games shortcomings which are being fixed by the way. This means many long term killer players who are used to this crap are performing at a level many survivors have yet to reach. In summation its hard now because you had easy mode on the whole time. Take hits was free because self care. Ds allows you to mess up without any consequence. Sprint burst allowed you to route inefficiently without consequence.

Yet it is a 1x use per survivor not a 4x use unless you count all 4 survivors using it. You're also assuming that in every game every survivor runs it, they don't. Just because it can occur up to 4x per match doesn't mean it will. That's really shoddy logic to back up your argument.

That's like me saying a killer could down all 4 survivors with NOED if their totem is up. There's no guarantee this will happen since 1 or more survivors might actually already have escaped.

Ok why harp about UP, it's a great perk to use and it doesn't hurt the killer that wants to go the distance so to speak. Do you or any of the others always complaining on here ever play anything except their favorite killer. do you use anything but the emta builds, do you think outside the box.

The obvious answer is no since at lvl 1-2 killers playing Hag pre buff, Trapper pre buff, Freddy, could constantly wreck and get 4ks. How is this possible well that's easy, map offerings that best suited their killer. Choosing addons, items, perks that best suited not only their killer but what the lobby gave them.

All I see are excuses and insults again about how easy survivors had it, well duh they did newsflash for you. If you keep repeating the same tired old arguments about how unfair it was/is you'll never get better. I could care less about DS and would be fine if they removed it. In fact they should so you killers that choose to pick a new issue each time one gets addressed wills top whining about it.

They're already nerfing it to be a stun only instead of a instant drop. The killer can choose to run Iron Grasp and Enduring then if they're so worried about it. Also I do in fact know what an asymmetrical game is but nice Straw Man there. You completely missed the logic behind my chess comment so here let me break this down for you as well.

In Chess each person makes a move and is then countered by the tehr players move. The object is to not only counter your opponents moves but also think several steps ahead.

In DBD it's the same thing, you do something, they in turn do something to cottner you. You chase them then they either turn left, run straight, turn right, try and 360 you. They might also try looping you, window vaulting, pallet dropping you etc. You in turn might turn left sooner then they do or right, keep going straight, changing your angle of chase etc.

In other words just as in chess you're trying to outthink your opponent aka plan ahead just as the game hint says. When playing as killer try and plan for where the survivor might go, identify obvious escape points aka windows, pallets etc.

Now see my example of chess was in fact correct, you just didn't like it and also didn't think it through logically how it'd correlate.

As far as the killer defining things they still do, survivors have to plan for BBQ, they have to plan for NOED, they have to play for Nurses calling etc. The killer gets to see the lobby so they know what to expect, the survivors have to plan for everything.

Again nerfs are happening beyond what's already been done but apparently for some killer they could be op as fck but unless they get 4k every game and no gens done they'll whine about it.

@powerbats
But your correlation to chess is wrong from the very start. In chess, both players have the same powers, abilities and advantages (someone likes to go 1st or 2nd). In dbd, mind games are present, but in no way they are present in chess. 

powerbats said:

@popoles said:
@powerbats
But your correlation to chess is wrong from the very start. In chess, both players have the same powers, abilities and advantages (someone likes to go 1st or 2nd). In dbd, mind games are present, but in no way they are present in chess. 

Actually my correlation was correct in the sense that both require skill, both require you to think ahead and strategize. Also you're wrong that mind games aren't present in chess when in fact they are, faking out your opponent is a key strategy in chess. You play mind games with them making them think you're planning one thing but are actually planning something else.

I didn't say there are no mind games in chess, I meant, that there are different kinds of mind games. Bad wording, sorry.

So, following your logic, a lawnmower and a car are the same, because both have 4 wheels and an engine.
But I say, they are still different in the core. 

@popoles said:

I didn't say there are no mind games in chess, I meant, that there are different kinds of mind games. Bad wording, sorry.

So, following your logic, a lawnmower and a car are the same, because both have 4 wheels and an engine.
But I say, they are still different in the core. 

Ok so bad wording and understood but that negates your lawnmower and car example then since my point was based off your post. At least you understood what I was saying about mind games since in every game there's always mind games, Poker being the best example of it.

Someone in a DS thread commented on how they run Object Of Obsession even though they don't have DS to mind game the killer into chasing them. That's a perfect example of a mind game in DBD and another would be the killer chasing a survivor away from the hatch by changing their angle making the survivor think it's someplace else. When the killer is actually chasing them in it's direction so the survivor goes another angle instead and away from the hatch.

Zarathos said:

@powerbats said:

@popoles said:
@powerbats
But your correlation to chess is wrong from the very start. In chess, both players have the same powers, abilities and advantages (someone likes to go 1st or 2nd). In dbd, mind games are present, but in no way they are present in chess. 

Actually my correlation was correct in the sense that both require skill, both require you to think ahead and strategize. Also you're wrong that mind games aren't present in chess when in fact they are, faking out your opponent is a key strategy in chess. You play mind games with them making them think you're planning one thing but are actually planning something else.

Your comparing the chess the greatest most balanced game in human history is similar to DBD. How in gods name does that correlate to DBD as a game. Where the map you get heavily dictates how you play. This would be ok if map imbalance weren't so huge. some killers are straight up unplayable on larger maps as their mobility is too low.Lets not forget some killers have no way to respond to heavily loop-able locations like the tree beside moving on to another survivor. You might say that a killer can adapt his perks to handle their perks but you forget how the game is laid out. You as a killer, the power role and you have only four perks slots the same as your opponents who can each cover an individual role to defeat the Killer. DBD has done a lot to make mind games more possible i respect that. But that's not the case still in a lot of locations. Currently we have bamboozle to counter a key broken feature in the game. This perk is a teachable locked behind a killer countering in DBD should never be done via a perk a basic mechanics should be available to counter these perks

Idk if you played identity v, but they have an interesting idea, hitting a survivor mid interaction with vault, chest, anything, cause instant down. Even a lunge strike. Nice built in mechanic.

Honestly...who really cares? Play the game to have fun, not whine and moan that you didn’t get a 4K or survive the round. Every perk (survivor and killer) has SOME kind of counterplay or a way to make it less effective but everybody acts as though it is supposed to be countered every single game they play and it is so annoying that people come on the forums and whine like crybaby about wanting something to be nerfed when killer mains have gotten survivors to have exhaustion nerfs, BNP part nerfs, and incoming pallet, DS, and SC nerfs. Nerf after nerf after nerf is going to eventually make it virtually impossible to even play survivor if the devs keeps catering to salty killer mains who complain that one survivor got the hatch or the got outplayed by one survivor who was better at surviving then they were killing. The game is not going to be handed to you on a silver platter and you will NOT have a 4K every round as a killer. Same goes for salty survivors who think they are going to survive every round and not expect the killer to tunnel them if they start teabagging and flickering their flashlights. Get mad and salty at my opinion if you want but it is just ridiculous that so many people have complains over the most idiotic things.

@Zarathos said:

I've seen game play for it. I'm kinda at odds with that game mechanic. It seems to strong to be honest it could heavily punish survivors for abusing loopable locations but I think it might be too punishing. Perhaps making windows close after two vaults might be better or just remove pallets close by so these spots can't be looped too often. The shack i d say is fine but places like the crotus prenn and ironworks loop need to be closed or alternatively have the basement guaranteed to spawn in these location's so survivors that mess up face the dreaded basement situation.

The 2 vaults close is an interesting idea and if i'ts 2 vaults of same window within x seconds then any window within x feet/meters is closed to that survivor for 15 seconds.