Fixing The Ghost Face and Night Shroud - The Problem on Both Ends
The Ghost Face is in a really weird position where people are incredibly divisive on where he stands as a killer between all the rank divisions. Many people think that he's terrible, while others think he's one of the best killers in the game. I've had much experience playing both as and against The Ghost Face, and me, as well as many on the internet can agree with his problems, those being:
- Night Shroud does not help you in a chase
- revealing mechanic is extremely janky on both ends, sometimes you're broken out of NS from behind a tree across the map, and others the survivor can't reveal The Ghost Face when he's five meters away
- Night Shroud's sound effect pretty much announces your presence to attentive survivors
- stealth killer < normal terror radius
- survivors revealing The Ghost Face is too fast and is too penalizing
Here are my suggestions to make The Ghost Face and his power, Night Shroud very good, as well as fair for both the killer and survivors.
Stalking Changes:
- after stalking for 5 seconds, The Ghost Face is no longer detectable with Spine Chill or Premonition until he exits stalking mode
- stalk distance / rate of stalking
- when more than 35 meters from survivors, The Ghost Face will stalk at a rate of 15 points per second (currently 20 at any range)
- when within 25 meters of a survivor, The Ghost Face can stalk at a rate of 25 points per second
- when within 10 meters of a survivor, The Ghost Face can stalk at a rate of 35 points per second
- stalking while in a chase will slow stalking rate by 50%
Reveal Changes:
- SURVIVORS CAN NO LONGER REVEAL THE GHOST FACE TO DISABLE NIGHT SHROUD
- instead, revealing The Ghost Face will reveal his aura to all survivors within a 30 meter radius for 5 seconds (cool-down of 30 seconds, takes 3 seconds to reveal)
- survivors must be within a 32 meter range and see at least 40% of The Ghost Face to reveal him
- looking at The Ghost Face can slow and regress his stalking
- while The Ghost Face is stalking...
- looking at The Ghost Face when 32-26 meters away will slow his stalk rate on the player watching him by 15%
- 25-15 meters will slow his stalk rate on the player watching by 25%
- 14 or less meters will slow his stalk rate on all players by 30%
- while The Ghost Face is stalking...
- while The Ghost Face is not stalking, survivors within 25 meters of The Ghost Face can look at him to regress his progress on stalking you by 15 points per second
- hooked or downed survivors can no longer reveal you or regress/slow stalking progress
General Tweaks:
- decrease The Ghost Face's base terror radius from 32 meters to 24 meters
- remove survivor ability to hear Night Shroud activation
- add invisible reticule to the center of the screen of all survivors in which The Ghost Face needs to be in to be revealed
- require The Ghost Face to be within line of sight of the front of the survivor to prevent abuse of the third person camera (cone added to survivor's front section)
These changes may seem really big, but with the aforementioned issues, The Ghost Face cannot compete with survivors at higher levels, as he has too much working against him. Remember, his power does not help him in a chase, so having Night Shroud be strong on it's own is essential. By making his power strong outside of chases and penalizing using it during one, The Ghost Face will require skill to use effectively while also being fair.
I personally see The Ghost Face as around the higher B-tier. These changes should pull him up to A-tier. Every killer should be viable at all ranks, and The Ghost Face just kinda drops off at around rank 10. Lemme know what you guys think about these suggestions. Am I completely wrong about this killer? I would love to hear many differing opinions!
Comments
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Ok, am i the only one that thinks that Nightshroud does help him in a chase?
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I suggest to remove stalking and replace it with something else, because the shape already have it first and it is his thing for many years. Ghost face having it is like recycling the shape's power into something else and because stalking is not something new to the game, we all want something new and fresh not some recycled power.
Evil within tier I,II and III is unique and night shroud's crouch and lean is also something unique but the STALKING AND EXPOSED THEN CHASE M1 even though they stalk in a different way it is not something new.
After playing them both doing the same Stalking AND EXPOSED THEN CHASE M1 then i realized yeah much the same.
no hard feelings GF mains its just a suggestion.
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He doesn't need help in a chase he is good in a way but he needs something new not some recycled effect
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I do as well. Helps those mindgames on injured guys and then if you can get your lean on you can get some stalk.
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I do like his mori. Then I end up doing mori on everyone hahaha 😆😆
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As a survivor he is not easy to deal with, it will surprise you.
As the ghost face i have the myers feels when using it
As a Legion main the game abandoned us soon we will join the survivors 😅🤣🤣
Imagine Legion being one of the survivors how sad is that he quitted from being a killer.
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night shroud is great in a chase.
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I will never allow that to happen!
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I feel you
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Well, stalking is Ghost Face's entire thing in the movies too. He doesn't really have anything else that's faithful to the movies that can be turned into a power. Meanwhile, Myers has tons of things like his invulnerability, extreme strength, resurrections, etc.
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When it does help him, they're in pretty niche scenarios when neither Ghost Face or the survivor can see each other. A player who knows how to counter Ghost Face will keep him in a particularly strong loop or at least in line of sight.
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just give the exposed effect to myers only.
Description "Ghostface vanish into the night" so his stealth power is perfect, ghostface can stalk his targets without the exposed effect.
Also what Myers doing is pursuing and locking on his target not stalking so i think its better that they will rename it to pursuit instead of stalk.
pursue means to follow and try to catch or capture (someone or something) for usually a long distance or time.
They should just improve his night shroud for a completely different gameplay and not giving him what Myers have "the exposed power effect".
There should be only one killer with the "exposed chase stab" power gameplay for uniqueness and to mention that they are both using a knife giving them both a Exposed Effect on their power is what we call Redundant.
Redundant means :repeating something else and therefore unnecessary.
Here is just my suggestion/opinion.
by activating night shroud he is on stalking mode:
Stalking mode:
- There is a delay of 1.5 seconds before stalking will commence.
- While Night Shroud is active, Ghost Face has no Terror Radius and emits no Red Stain.
- Performing hit or miss basic attack will deplete 1 Power gauge and will not deactivate Night Shroud.
- The Power Night shroud Has 3 power bars, you can activate night shroud by having atleast 1 power bar of the gauge
- Night shroud will recover 1 power bar after 12 seconds.
- Night shroud power bar will only recover when night shroud is not active.
- Survivors within a close proximity to Ghost Face can detect him by Looking in his Direction for a Complete 3 seconds even if they did not see him. This will deplete 1 power bar and automatically deactivate Night Shroud.
- Hold down the Power button while behind cover to lean out.
- Press the Active Ability button to crouch. Press it again to stand.
- Crouch Speed 3.8m/s
- The Ghost Face can be revealed by Survivors within a 30 meter range of him by looking at him for a complete 2 seconds and will deplete 1 power bar.
- Survivors need to see atleast 25% of Ghost Face's body to start revealing him.
- When Ghost Face is revealed it will trigger Peek A Boo.
- Peek A Boo - it will reveal the Survivor that revealed him for 5 seconds.
Post edited by DeathEscape on0 -
This makes him EVEN worse than he currently is and would just make him an M1 killer. The only thing that he'd be able to do now is remove his terror radius at will, which The Pig, The Wraith, and Freddy can all do. What would be the point? Just give Michael something different instead since stalking is Ghost Face's entire thing.
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How will it be worse? This will improve his mind game style. You are relying too much on exposed effect.
Read it again and compare it to the current night shroud except the exposed effect.
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Shroud is that helpful in chases that it's actually arguably better to not bother with stalking, because stalking requires you to stand in place, not hit survivors and look for places to lean from. Ghostface's best add-ons reduce CD on shroud.
Only person that never used lack of bloodstain and terror radius could say that shroud doesn't help with chases.
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So you are suggesting that the game needs more 1 hit killers? Or?
what do you even mean? he is a M1 killer using Exposed and using M1 to 1 hit down them, do you think you can bring them down just by staring at them using night shroud?
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Yes, shroud is very helpful in a chase because you can easily do mind games with it.
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Exposed Effect is Myer's thing and Stealth Stalking,Mind Games is Ghost Face's thing.
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it will reveal the Survivor that revealed him for 5 seconds, freddy,pig and wraith doesnt have that and also he can crouch and lean for spying/stalking survivors.
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he is not similar to freddy,pig and wraith
- Ghost Face will reveal the Survivor that revealed him for 5 seconds.
How is that?
Post edited by DeathEscape on0 -
You do know that the current best way to play ghostface is to never stalk and only use night shroud for the stealth and mindgames, right?
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Agreed. Nightshroud is a godsend in chase. The only issue he really has (when compared to other stealth killers) is the latency on reveals causing missed reveals that should happen and reveals that happen too late
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Agreed
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They won't reduce his terror radius because terror radius is standardised with speed. The only exception being myers and nurse. 115 killer = 32 m terror radius, 110 killer = 24 m terror radius
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Who said that they will reduce his terror radius?
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First off, dude, can you not quote my same comment like 30 separate times and just address the whole thing in one?
Secondly, you clearly misunderstood what I said. Exposing survivors is a strong part of his kit because his Night Shroud only helps in chases in niche scenarios where you're very close to the survivor but neither of you can see each other. Otherwise, chances are that most experienced survivors will take away your power instantly, Sprint Burst, and loop you for days. Mind-gaming is not reliable enough with Ghost Face to be a power on it's own.
No, I didn't suggest more one hit killers at all, lmao. Playing Ghost Face with your suggestion would be like playing Wraith with no speed. Powers should not be survivor reliant, meaning that the survivor should not be the one to activate your power. In exchange for one hitting survivors, survivors have to actively disable your power in order to get an effect that is already in his power as well as three charges of Night Shroud for... no reason. It's objectively worse.
You're also taking the descriptions of the killers as a hyper-literal description/extension of the killer's power-- and yes, I know what redundant is.
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Is this a troll post or...
If not, how about a challenge? If his mind-games are so strong, how about getting a 4K without exposing a single survivor? Send a video of how his mind-games are strong. I'm legitimately curious as to how it'll help him in a chase where a survivor Sprint Bursts away into a loop they can see over.
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Shroud helps him in a chase because he has no red stain and no heart beat.... so the survivors cant tell how close he is without seeing him.... even some of the more experienced survivors have trouble looping him when shroud is up....
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No harm in making just another exception. Ghost Face would really benefit.
They were referring to my comment, DE.
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Yeah, but these are in more niche scenarios. It isn't exactly reliable because his power could be cancelled with a pallet or by another survivor if they see him.
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Yeah but when you're use to him and being aware of your surroundings he can be devastating... you can end a game in such a short time when get used to him....
I was one of the group saying hes weak.... but I've learned my ways....
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Most of powers can be cancelled by pallet drop, it would be OP if it is not, so its fair.
Cancelling his power will reveal the survivors, how could it be bad?
Understand it first before making another comment.
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Post edited by DeathEscape on0
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No disrespect, but is English not your first language or...
Because you have genuinely completely misinterpreted almost everything I've said so far.
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Read your previous comments and you just clearly said that his powers is unreliable
You are 16 im surprised..
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I'm not suggesting removing the ability to reveal him. I am instead suggesting that revealing him does not disable his power and instead reveals his aura as well as allow you to regress your stalk meter.
Why wouldn't you like to see this change?
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Did i say that you want to remove it?
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I'm gonna stop responding to you here.
You've completely misunderstood all of my replies so far and I'm just telling you what I'm thinking about your ideas respectively. I'm totally willing to switch to whatever language you're best in so I can effectively convey my ideas but you're being overly hostile for no reason lol.
To answer your question though, I'm 16. :)
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Read this again
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Night Shroud kind of help in chases by hiding his red stain imo, it's not huge but it saves time.
Also an another tweak he needs is that leaning needs to happen automatically if you hold m2 and hug a surface that you can lean on, currently you need to wait for the prompt to and it's honestly way too slow and clunky during high rank games and can cost you alot of marks, it's frustrating.
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you changed your mind from saying its unreliable to reliable, sorry i did not read your latest comments and I quoted your old comment. Well sorry i do not know that it well offend you, Im just explaining the concept of the power.
I made a GhostFace Suggestion Find my post react, tell me what you think about it and vote up if you liked it.
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I think that NS helping in chases is only in those niche scenarios where neither your or the survivor can see each other. It CAN help, but it's not exactly reliable.
Totally agree with your second point, it does cost quite a few stalks.
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Well Im too sleepy, I got no sleep and Im having a headache. Well gotta sleep my mind is tired.
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I don't mean to be the person who posts Truetalent, but he is how I heard about this build, and I have tried it for myself. Here's a link, he's been posting a ton of this playstyle of no-stalk ghostface for a few weeks now.
I can explain the logic to you: There is a clear benefit to just using the Shroud to Ambush instead of Stalk.
In both cases, the survivor gets an alert to run away from you, and will likely start running. In the case of simply using the Shroud to get a free hit, you have injured them so they're one-hit-down already, and you can apply perks that require injury. In addition, they're now easier to track and sneak up on a second time, and need to waste time healing. You can also peel off the chase at any time to pressure the map more, because you've already injured them and there's no way that injury is going away until they stop to heal, wasting time.
If you Stalk them, they have an increased window of time to notice you if they haven't already, and you simply expose them. That is, again, a big red sign to "loop ghostface for 60 seconds". If you fail to hit them within that time, you walk away with nothing and no time wasted. If they see you while you're stalking them, you lose a ton of distance and again, might walk away with nothing. The time-sensitive nature of Exposed means you can't peel off the chase whenever you want.
In both scenarios vs a typical survivor that has eyes it is far better to "cash out sooner" and simply land a hit on them while in shroud than it is wasting time stalking them for an uncertain, timed, telegraphed insta-down.
Using the Shroud mid-chase is a godsend for mindgames, as it means survivors can't track your red stain nor Terror radius, meaning they have a much harder time keeping track of you on loops. If you're getting pallet-stunned with night shroud, that's fine, because it's not taking away anything from you - you were just going to hit them with m1 anyways, you were just using Shroud to end the loop faster. Most of the time, however, the Shroud can basically ensure a successful mindgame on certain loops.
In terms of being "broken out" of your power, that's completely fine, because No-Stalk ghostface doesn't really care. If they can break you out, they already know where you are, which means that you're probably in a chase with them. It's not like you're going to get stalk on them anyways, so you lose nothing. Also, funny thing, most survivors tend to stand still or slow down to steadily reveal you, expecting you to keep stalking them. If you just run at them and m1 them, they'll usually give you a free hit trying to reveal you, if they're that kind of player.
Sprint burst is equally effective against Ghostface either way because he's an m1 killer? I don't understand this argument.
The point is that Stalking with nightshroud is in almost all cases above brown ranks inferior to simply injuring survivors. Being injured versus a killer who can stealth completely is very risky, and abusing ghostface's power to obfuscate survivor's perception is 9 times out of 10 going to be better than using him in his slow, stalky intended playstyle, especially in a game where the killer has no time to waste.
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But can you explain What "mind-game potential" I'm erasing?
And PvP games are inherently competitive by nature. Dead by Daylight is no exception, and arguably gets more competitive the higher your rank.
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Gonna counter your video with this video I found. Stalking is effective, but it could be better. Here's Otz using a basic build playing as intended.
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While it *can* work either way, especially when we're posting really good killer players, True has posted quite a few videos (upwards of 20?) using no stalk and it's pretty clear to see the benefits of the playstyle.
In my own experience as an average-ish killer player, I've gotten far more reliable success out of a no stalk build. My initial comment was to just show you that your assumptions about Night Shroud being useless in a chase are kinda incorrect, and that its not a "troll post" to say Stalkless ghostface is perhaps more viable than twisting yourself in knots to make GF's power actually pull weight.
I don't think your rework will solve the Ghostface's problem with stalk - Survivors have too much of a say in it.
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"Ghost Face Vs Rank 1 players perfect game", watch this and you will understand how pro ghostface play against Rank 1 Survivors, and how mind games using ghost face can be useful.
using stalking against rank 1 survivor players is a waste of time and you will end up getting pallet drop until the exposed effect expires and the last thing you will see are rank 1 survivors teabagging you at the exit in the end.
I too never use stalking after I discovered the bad and undesirable quality of stalking feature of ghost face's power.
Post edited by DeathEscape on0 -
Agreed
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Very interesting. After this explanation I can definitely understand the counterpoints much more now. I've definitely gotten more success from just stalking from a further distance and activating when I'm right on top of them or right before I'm fully revealed.
This actually changes the entire argument I'm making for changing his power.
I'll have to do more testing with not exposing survivors and see what success I can pull from it. Then I'll update this thread with my findings and new ideas.
Thanks! :)
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