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First Hook Suicide Is The Same As Disconnecting
I have to say it again; If you suicide on your first hook because you don't like a Killer, or a Killer's perks: You are disconnecting.
You are abusing a loophole to avoid punishment, but you are disconnecting.
Don't bother saying 'It's not the same because..' because IT IS THE SAME.
Disconnecting:
Leaving the match because you hate the Killer/Perk(s) being used. This screws over your team early on. It also denies the Killer a large amount of bloodpoints because it's one less Survivor to chase & hook 2-3 times.
First Hook Suicide:
Leaving the match because you hate the Killer/Perk(s) being used. This screws over your team early on. It also denies the Killer a large amount of bloodpoints because it's one less Survivor to chase & hook 2-3 times.
Huh. When I put it that way, it's almost like people who first-hook suicide are the same people that would outright DC if it were not a bannable offense. 🤔🤔🤔🤔
And don't get me started on the BS, self-centered argument that 'games are supposed to be FUN, and my fun matters more than 4 other people's fun!'
When you log in, you accept that a Killer (or Survivor, for you DCing Killers) will use a person/perk(s) you don't like. Grow a freaking pair and accept it or stop logging in. You don't matter more than 4 other people ALSO trying to have fun.
If this little self-centered argument had ANY weight, DCing would not be banned in the first place.
Don't bother trying to argue it; you're wrong. First Hook Suicides are exactly like DCing while having the bonus of abusing a technicality to avoid punishment. The intent behind it is the same for both; leaving as fast as possible, screwing over your teammates & the Killer in the process.
The reason I made this post? Because, when servers go live, and DCing is more heavily punished, we will see an upsurge in first-hook suicides. DC bans will do nothing to change the underlying problem, only the method with which they do it. I want Devs to be aware of this, so they can properly combat the problem.
Comments
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Suicide on the hook doesn't deny nearly as much BP as DCing does.
Otherwise yeah they are the same.
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also First hook Suicides doesn't deny things like BBQ and PGTW ect
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As a killer, you still get a kill.
As a survivor though it's really a dick move and it's even worse when it's a SWF team of potatoes and they first-hook suicide one by one.
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On the positive side it does remove a hook from play unless it's basement hook
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May I know is it when a player dc, he/she will still keep the item he brings in the game?
if yes, this dc problem can be easily solved by removing the item I guess
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I'm afraid that's never gonna be fixed unless you remove self unhooking then luck offerings slippery meat and deliverance would have to be reworked
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Pretty much, yeah. You're not screwing the killer over but you're screwing your teammates over.
And again, the only way to fix it is to actually. punish. people. If reporting people who did this and they got enough reports actually got them a punishment, then people may stop. But instead people just sit around making up BS excuses for why we can't punish people.
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I wonder if they can make a system that catches that.
Like for example, if they don't struggle at all. It's counted as a DC.
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And what ? You want to ban suicide on hook too ? Lets be serious when someone suicide on hook the only one who get avantage of this is the killer cuz the rest of the team is fck. Stop flaming for some bp when the rest of the survivor are going to lose more than you
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I'd rather have a fun game everyone enjoyed instead of an easy win or a gimmie because some scrub decided to DC/Suicide & screw over his team.
So I'll keep flaming people who run away like babies because I used a Killer/Perk(s) they don't like.
I can be upset at how it screws people over, even if it benefits me. It's called empathizing with people.
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I often first hook suicide if there's only one other person alive because I want to give them hatch. Would that be self centered of me? The killer at least got his BBQ stack and my teamate has the ability to escape. It also prevents the boring scenario where I get saved, killer comes back and slugs me, then chases the last person for the 4 man. Suiciding on the hook is the only option I have to help my teamate.
Also, if you punish hook suicides, rank 20s are going to some of the casualties of that decision. I've seen plenty of new players on rank reset try to unhook themselves, fail, then not understand that there's a struggle phase and die. And if you remove this punishment within certain ranks, then you just encourage deranking. Fix the tutorial before even condidering this.
And I do want to question you about how you said that when people login, they accept that the killer could be using a person and/or perks they don't like. That mindset doesn't work though. Old Legion was an incredibly broken and toxic killer by design and yet they were one of the most played killers on Xbox for rank 1 as shown on the data sheet the devs gave months ago. Does that make the constant DCs and hook suicides not justified because they didn't decide to play against a killer they didn't like?
People are going to play what makes them win, and if that's consistently playing gen protector Spirit or impossible skill checks Doc on the game, that's what they'll do. Those builds aren't fun for the survivor at all and turn what could've been an interactive experience for both sides into a single player game for killer. The self centered argument you (OP) brought up doesn't apply only to survivors. Killers who knowingly run overpowered/toxic builds also say "'my fun matters more than 4 other peoples fun!'"
When the DCs actually get punished, yeah, there'll be an influx of hook suicides. How many of those are from people who are just toxic cry babies and those that are from people just frustrated by a overpowered build that has little to no counterplay is completely up to the devs. If they remove the broken aspects of the game, then all that would be left is the toxic cry babies. Punishing hook suicides isn't what's needed right now.
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However, punishing people for actively DCing is one thing.
They won't punish people for killing themselves on hook. It won't get better if they start doing that, I can promise you that much. People would just stop playing altogether.
The issue is, that this game does not have a comp. and casual. It has a casual game, mixed with a competitive system. Which is not a great idea.
Most games separate these 2, and punish those who leave comp. matches, but not casual matches, as there really isn't as much at stake aside from team/points, compared to ranked.
They can't just go around punishing people for not wanting to play. That's why a casual and competitive mode is needed. But I doubt that would happen.
It's a tough situation. But as far as I am concerned. They should continue to punish active DCing and let the killing on hook deal be. Will it be the same problem? Yes, everyone knows this. But again, they really shouldn't go around punishing for killing on the hook.
It would get messy quickly. And the last thing this game needs, is more messes.
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Or their teammates did something to earn them saying I'm out.
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Wrong, I believe you get more emblem progress the more hooks you get. So by doing this, the survivor costs the killer 2 potential hooks.
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Remember that suicides also skew the statistics to show killers more lethal than they are.
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play survivor
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Stop trying to control what players do if it is allowed by the rules of the game.
I will take a BBQ stack all day instead of a player disconnecting.
Create incentives for staying in the match. Bloodpoints would likely motivate most survivors.
Or you can go the route of disabling their perks for a set number of matches. :)
The rest will do what they want and the devs are the only ones who can come up with some solution.
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So I can have a teammate DC and ruin the game that way? No thanks. The only solution I see is a ban for DC and eliminate the ability to struggle on second hook. Make the struggle passive and on a timer so there can be no suicide.
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Lol are you a troll, or a killer main meme maybe ? Not cuz you believe something that it’s real.
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You get survival points for struggling. Though adding altruism points if a killer is camping would be interesting.
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Not a troll. I play killer more than survivor but I do play both. That shouldn't discredit what I've seen or said. What did I say that would warrant me being called a troll? I'm actually offering up ideas to fix a large problem with the game, unlike you.
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And I don't think camping is the main reason for suicide or DC. It's people who don't want to lose or play after being caught.
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That's why I said it would be interesting to add it. If you're getting face camped you're unlikely to get many points. This would soften that blow.
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Are you a Spirit Main or maybe a Freddy? Those are the only killers I ever see my survivor mates kill themselves on the hook against. Maybe the Iridescent Huntress too. Some people just can't handle the challenge. It's kinda sad. You are never going to get better that way.
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I play as Huntress (normal hatchet) and Ghostface. You are right though, quitting is no way to get better.
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Suicide is a legitimate strategy.
And it is not even a suicide, it is a triple failed attempt at escapes, followed by the failure of the struggle against the Entity, all this without any comrade coming to save us soon enough.
Killers do not like the suicide of a survivor, but enjoy the Mori unbalancing and shortening the game, adding frustration, in exactly the same way... Strange.
Seriously, this is not a desirable behavior either. However, I am not in favor of solving problems with stupid punishment.
Act on causes (because no one likes to commit suicide, and players want to... play), it's the only reasonable thing to do. And please remove this key harassment for the struggle stage... so boring.
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I really think first hook suicides (or any kind of hook suicide within the first X minutes or when all players are still alive) should carry the same penalty as disconnecting.
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Rofl. It's attempting to escape knowing full well you will fail, and probably running AT the Killer if you succeed. it's then avoiding struggling (not 'failing', it's NOT TRYING) to die so you can leave the match in 10 seconds because the Killer is someone you don't like, or they have a perk you don't like.
It's disconnecting while dodging the DC punishment, plain and simple. Don't try to obfuscate it. It's a delibrate death to run away of something you don't want to play against, leaving 3 Survivors screwed.
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Disconnecting is one thing but when you deal with first hook suicides ( damn that's really weird statement without context) it's a very grey area.
Especially if it's not the last two people it's a very poor move on their part as you said it robs both the survivor and the killer of a lot of points and a lot of perk potential (with the exception of barbecue and pop goes the weasel).
However you can't exactly force a person to play a game.
You take away their ability to disconnect effectively which by right you should they are just going to kill themselves on first hook
Take away the ability to kill themselves on the first Hook and likelihood is that they're just going to stand there afk until they get killed on struggle phase.
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And if someone has high afk times in matches (it can be tracked and recorded, easily. The idle crows track afk time), they get timeouts leading to bans.
People will always find a way to cheat, too. Does that mean we should let them cheat? No! It means we keep fighting back into the little scrubs find it too hard to scrub out & finally leave the game, leading to a much healthier game where people aren't DCing/Hook Suiciding/Idling.
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You forgot about salty and toxic people who do false reports.
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Then you don't really have to go afk for a long time.
Especially if you get saved quick enough most Killers will go back to the hook, you just kind of have to stay there.
As annoying as it is there's always a way to work around these rules.
If you want to try to block every single possibility you then start to make the game very restrictive.
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The Devs already took a stand that DC = ban.
This means they NEED to take a stand that Anything = DC = Ban. (Anything that equates to DCing ALSO equals a ban)
This means things like delibrately dying on first hook. This can easily be fixed by removing that hated Struggle mechanic.
Make Struggling automatic, and remove the ability to give up. Fixed. People can't suicide. People hate the Struggle mechanic anyways.
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That's what I'm saying, it's a simple step towards a more fun game. It doesn't completely solve the problem of suicide but it delays it.
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If u die on the first hook then thats what happen, u dont dc wich is a completely different thing.
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If you delibratly die on the first hook to leave a game early, you screw over your team the same as if you disconnected.
They are not LITERALLY the same but they equate to the same result. So don't argue semantics on this one; you won't win.
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No, u dont disconnect. u played a match and died, killers are supposed to kill remember.
If people think there is a "underlying problem" to why death on 1st hook happen then adress that, complaining that ppl die on the hook wont fix anything.
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I'm talking about people who delibratly die on first hook to avoid PLAYING THE MATCH.
They did not 'play the match and die' or they would not be the problem.
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They literally did, got caught hooked and died. game over.
"When you log in, you accept that a Killer (or Survivor, for you DCing Killers) will use a person/perk(s) you don't like. Grow a freaking pair and accept it or stop logging in"
Accept that death on hook is part of the gameplay you so much want others to think about.
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Then they're just going to purposely run to the Killer.
If they can't kill themselves then they could just make the killer help them with assisted suicide
(Once again without context this sounds really bad)
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You know what? You're doing nothing but arguing 'They showed up, so they can quit'
There's nothing to argue there. You are literally saying they should be allowed to leave the match without doing something because they allowed it to happen via game mechanics.
That's what I mean by 'abusing a loophole'. The end result is someone bailing early and screwing over their teammates. They still DC'd in everything but pure literal action.
Don't defend that. You're defending the toxic players that ruin the game.
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You argued against yourself in your first post and "won".
Its not a loophole or a DC, Death on hook is part of the gameplay.
If you think there is something wrong with the gameplay that causes players to die "early" then that would be a more constructive discussion.
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*Laughs in Hangman's Trick*
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I already pointed out why your argument is wrong in my starting post. Just because it's part of the gameplay loop does not mean it's not being abused to dodge DC punishments while still gaining the effect of DCing.
No matter what you say; it's still, in effect, disconnecting. Even if it's not LITERALLY disconnecting. it's the same end result, so arguing 'They are allowed to do it!' is not fine. It's still wrong.
That's the whole reason for this thread; because it's a loophole allowing for disconnects that aren't disconnects.
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Disconnects that arent disconnects you say....
So its not a disconnect. And you want to punish players for not disconnecting. But you also want to be able to force them to stay as long as you want them to.
You see how all this arent really constructive?
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I see how your argument basically has no real points being argued, man.
You've done nothing but argue semantics and then boil my argument down to the point that you missed every point.
Just stop. You're trying to argue in favor of people who ruin the game for other people. That's not a side anyone should be on. Everyone should want a healthier game.
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I do want a healthier game also, i just dont think punishing players is a good way to do it. (beatings continue until morale increase)
If u were to ask players why things happen (probably not soo much as this thread thinks it happens)
- Spirit, very problematic and unfun to play against
- prayer beads
- freddy is too strong way too much utility with zero downsides ("mindgames but not realy")
- continuing nerfs of survivor gameplay with less and less items to use
- stale meta perks who dont change cos other perks arent buffed and dlc perks sucks
That should cover about 80% of making the game better
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there is only one situation in which I can understand that someone is committing suicide
pls mercy
lmao
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No you are not using a loophole to avoid punishment. You are accepting punishment and moving on to the next game. It may be annoying for the survivors but it’s allowed by the game mechanics and shouldn’t be considered a disconnection.
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Except it isn't your "punishment" at all. It's you chickening out of the match like a little baby, just with slightly more dignity than someone who straight up disconnects, and you screw over your entire team in doing so. It's you punishing your team, it's not you accepting punishment at all.
Punishment implies something negative happens, and there is no negative to disconnecting just like there is none for killing yourself on first hook, which is the equivalent to a disconnect, minus the fact it doesn't punish the killer, just the survivors.
I'm really astonished at the amount of people who make excuses for people who disconnect or even people who do this, and it really isn't surprising given this community as a whole is pretty toxic and garbage. There's no shortage of people like that, evidently. It's just a bunch of shitheads who all have the same terrible mentality, and they have 0 consequences so why stop? Why not enforce those ideals on forums lol
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