Vaults
What makes you lag back or keep momentum while vaulting?I get the first situation most of the time and feel like it gets me hit alot
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Medium vaults will not keep your momentum. You come to a complete standstill right next to the window.
Fast vaults will keep momentum. You'll land a little ways away from the window. Changing directions after fast vaulting will cause you to lose momentum though (i.e. You vault and immediately start running left or right, not straight).
Otherwise, getting hit might cause the game to "lag back" (it's correcting your position to what the server sees), or having a weak connection might cause a bit of delay between what you see and where the server sees you.
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I could be wrong but there is slow, medium, and fast vault and I think the later two depend on the angle at which you approach the vault. Someone please jump in if I am wrong!
The first situation you are talking could be medium vault.
Vaults are tricky and you need to make sure you are far enough away from killer that you can perform the vault action safely, and be far enough away from killer that they can't hit you through them.
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window hits werent an issue till the vaults got constantly nerfed.
you'd be surprised how killers will hit you through pallets and windows
this has never been fixed as devs stated that nothing wrong with it
although the clips eevrywhere can show how BS vaults and pallets became
also I noticed with dedi servers the reach of killers is more BS.
thats my personal opinion
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There is no difference that I see between medium vaults and slow vaults. Only the beginning of the action seems faster, but you get hit even killer isn't anywhere near you. 0 momentum and killers' reach make it frustrating.
And fast vaults are pretty hard to keep up. There are many obstacles one side of a vaulting point in many maps. Like walls, creating a narrow corridor, automatically drains your momentum.
Can't lie after dedicated servers, not getting hit after vaulting is a bit increased. But still, even when play as killer I surprise the length I could reach after vaults. I think the main problem comes from the hit cone before killers. They don't seem to recognize walls as obstacles and register the same hit as an open field.
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Medium and slow vaults are meant to be very dangerous. The killer can hit through the window, so you're not safe if you get one of those. All of those obstacles are intentionally placed to stop you from getting fast vaults, making it so there's a correct way to vault some windows. This adds a little more skill based gameplay: There's an optimal way to run tiles, and figuring out how to force the killer/survivor to run in the way you want is one of the more advanced things you can do.
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its the lag back i know the difference between medium and fast vaults i learned that in 2k hours atleast.I get it now tho
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exactly lunges hit you alot further on vaults and when vaulting pallets they legit hit you while you are vaulting and are already on the other side of the pallet.It looks bs even on killers screen lmao
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I fast vault the pallet and Im literally on the opposite side, still get hit. I think killers have very long hidden swords
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i mean clearly they havent seen the hundreds of “lag back” clips... this is terrifying to see that its being called intended
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my thoughts too
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I know they are intentional. I am saying they should reconsider, how it is handled. Do you think forcing a certain way of play is good for game health? Doesn't making only one good sided loops encourage just memorizing maps? Or is that the point of being an advanced player. Better memory. I think you shouldn't make a correct way of vaulting. People should be able to improvise more in chases.
Slow and medium faults may supposed to be very dangerous, but right now they are impossible. Killer can hit you even if you medium/slow vaulted before he/she entered the building. That distance is ridiculously long. And vaulting is literally your only advantage as survivor over killer.
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It is good for gameplay, yes. Being able to tell which way is the better way for you to run the window (as killer and survivor) is part of what separates that average player from good players. The shack is a good example of this. The survivors will want to vault from the inside out, killers will them to vault from the outside in so they lose more distance and possible get a hit.
It should be very clear at a glance which side you can fast vault from. If there's stuff in front of the window, you can't fast vault it from that side. Memory has nothing to do with it, it's just understanding how the mechanics work.
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Vaulting is literally the only advantage survivors have over killer? Seriously? What about pallets, flashlights, keys, the hatch. . . Not to mention multiple perks that can pull you out of dieing state and help you avoid getting hooked.
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I am confused. Are we talking about a certain way looping in general, or just correct way of vaulting. Cause I know the fast vaulting requirements. That's not what I am saying. What I wanted to say, making a maze viable only from one angel constantly is a limitation of your game play. That brings the memorizing part. The more you memorize, the better you loop. I think one of the reasons new maps are not welcomed nice is this. People feel strange and they need to memorize new roots in there.
I am all in for mind games, forcing slow vaults on survivors. If I failed to see killer changing directions and got busted, yes of course he should be able to hit me. But right now, hits are a lot killer favored. They have bigger rooms for mistakes on killer end. One medium vault or fast vault with obstacle gives killer so much time than he needs to hit.
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Thanks for the tip Peanits! I am TERRIBLE at looping! Maybe this will help. :)
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I wasn't comparing perks or add-ons. Don't you think killers have those too.
I meant in chases. Killer who is faster, chasing you, so you can't run straight. And vaulting gives survivor that vantage. Yes pallets are very crucial, but they are also part of vaulting. And there are much more variables in them to compare here.
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"fast vaults will keep momentum"<--This is so far away from true.
You can play a Window 100% correctly, get a Fast Vault and will STILL sucked back, because the Positioning after the Vault is ######### and was never fixed. Not really cool, not at all.
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I think this is the only post ive had to disagree with a dev with, especially you Peanits. In a chase there is barely any optional paths to go the killer cant just instantly predict in a second and cut you off before you've made any ground. Theres simply too many changes to maps that cut places off, leaving you with only one path and nowhere to quickly hide to confuse the killer.
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There is no point to vaults and pallets because killers can bloodlust around them because there is always an open door ornspace directly next to them. Nerfing vaults didnt increase the amount of skill needed. It just rings as being a bs mechanic
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There really is becoming alot more issues during the adjustments.
I will just call these "illegal hits" for the sake of reference.
- Windows now have an issue of illegal hits. The killer just SMACKED me, despite being 8' away from the window on my screen. IM playing on 100m down /25 up. WIRED and im on a very nice desktop pc. It shouldn't be an issue for me.
- Pallet strikes. So this game has a reverse pallet vacuum now AND the killer can hit players THROUGH pallets. Let alone we see pallets that are NOT dropping.
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@Peanits . Finally I gathered some footage to explain myself better. Please bare with me.
In this one, I completely understand. I was late, he was close. Even fast vaults you can hit through windows. this is normal for me.
in this one, I am saying I wasn't that late for vaulting. And he hasn't even turned around yet. And because of the latency, the medium vault speed, and 0 momentum, killer has this huge hitbox before him. That feels bad.
With this one I have general concerns about vaulting. When I started fast vaulting, he wasn't behind me, almost turned around, and he still managed to put me in the hit register cone in front of him. So it registers the hit. Even I hear the missed attack sound, and about to touch the ground, I get hit. That's why sometimes it feels like killers have 2 meters arm length, and why we experience pull backs after vault completed. If this was a window, I am sure we would see a pull back.
I don't know what to say to this one. I am hoping it is a dedicated server thing for now and will be fixed later. If this is a normal hit, I have nothing more to say about the subject.
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I mean we don't need to even mention that last vid as its clearly a lag issue, however in the second vid the medium vault, you can see that the player model snaps back into another position after landing. Not sure if that's a lag issue or an animation issue but it's really obvious in the slow mo
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You missed his question Peanits. Sometimes when you FAST VAULT you are not able to keep running but instead you stand still for a second or even worse you get teleported a little bit closer to the window. It's a bug since the last time you changed the vaultings.
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1) This issue often happens because on The Killers screen you were in the hit. Once the information has been gathered the game makes a decision on whether the lag was justifiable enough to apply the hit. This is why sometimes you specifically get a lot further before the hit actually registers.
2) This is a very similar problem it judges based on whether the hit would have connected with a reasonable space for latency on both ends.
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Deleted.
Post edited by antgnstea on0 -
Bear in mind that lag compensation will usually favor the Killer (Because it would be unfair if you clearly hit the survivor on your screen, but the hit didn't register), and even a small amount of latency can cause a significant discrepancy.
There's often a big difference between where you are on your screen, where the server thinks you are, and where the Killer sees you on his screen. On the Killer's screen, you're usually much closer than you appear to be on your own screen, especially if there's any significant amount of latency.
Also, with knife-wielding killers like Ghostface, their hitbox is a little bigger than the animation, because the hitboxes need to be the same for every killer's basic attack, regardless of what the animations look like.
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Double post. Sorry.
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Bear in mind that lag compensation will usually favor the Killer (Because it would be unfair if you clearly hit the survivor on your screen, but the hit didn't register), and even a small amount of latency can cause a significant discrepancy.
There's often a big difference between where you are on your screen, where the server thinks you are, and where the Killer sees you on his screen. On the Killer's screen, you're usually much closer than you appear to be on your own screen, especially if there's any significant amount of latency.
Also, with knife-wielding killers like Ghostface, their hitbox is a little bigger than the animation, because the hitboxes need to be the same for every killer's basic attack, regardless of what the animations look like.
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Vaults, just as pallets, seem to be broken in the sense that the hit detection is coded client-side, which means killer-sided as he is the one hitting.
Now that the devs added servers, the problem became even bigger because of this.
Just an exemple: Before when the killer was host (he was the server) :
Survivors had a certain latency to the killer, let's say a decent one 80ms. It meant that all of survivor's action (which include vaulting, dropping pallets,...) were registered 80ms later on killer's screen, meaning he can hit you in that time-frame. And if he does and the hit barely connects on his screen, it will register, whereas on survivor's screen it cleary didn't connect. And it was with good ping exemple, the more latency the survivors had to the killer (whether it's just distance, survivor connection or killer connection), the more unfair it was for them.
Now with current dedicated servers: when I connect to the closest server, I always have 70ms stable latency. Let's say the killer has around 80ms latency, my position and my actions are registered on the dedicated servers in 70ms, and these informations are sent to the killer 80ms later, which means he receives all my actions 150ms after I actually do these, 150ms where he can hit me freely if he's close and we're going for a vault or a pallet drop. This is two time worse than what it was with killer hosting. And same here, the more the latency one or both party have, the more killer is rewarded and the survivor is punished for this, just as it was with killers hosting but to an other extent as both latencies are stacked together in killer's favor this time. Also lagswitching, even though very rare and happening way less often than what people claim, is still possible because of all this.
The only solution is indeed dedicated servers but with server-side hit detection, and I hope they will implement it soon enough. Whether they decide to do the whole swing animation server-side (as in F13th), or let the swing animation client-side but still do the hit-detection server-side, it will be perfect.
Current situation:
-if both killer and survivor connection are good, it is mostly decent experience for everyone, not a lot of unfairness, just a bit on the survivor side (although with current servers and stacked latencies, survivors are facing way more unfairness).
-If survivor has a poor connection, he's punished for it and it's OK. I don't think it's unfair.
-If the killer has a poor connection, the survivor is also punished for it and it is extremely unfair for him.
Situation with with server-side hit detection:
-if both have good connection, it is the best experience, no unfairness at all, latency is always a thing so some hits that may look like hits on killer screen won't register, some hits that don't connect on survivor screen will register, but usually fair for everyone, and especially, it is no side favored.
-survivor bad connection = survivor punished with far away hits.
-killer bad connection = killer punished with hits that don't register.
-most lagswitch usage not possible anymore.
That's why the server-side hit detection is the best solution. It is way more fair and should be the way to go. I understand it won't be easy to implement, and also that it will be a buff to survivors, so some balance may be needed when it's in place to make the experience balanced for everyone.
As of now, I can only tell people to never try for a medium vault, especially with current servers, bait it but never vault it, you will always get hit otherwise.
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