I'm extremely disappointed with the Nurse changes BHVR
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And that isn't something the game needed in it's current state.
Time is the single most important thing any killer has, and the game is just too fast now when survivors play optimally. There is almost no room if any at all for errors on the killer side unless survivors are just sloppy and making mistakes left and right.
If they had brought the weak killers up to somewhere near Nurse then I would've been ok with bring her down SLIGHTLY. But that didn't happen, we still have killers that are completely nonviable in high elo.
Slightly off topic but a big reason we don't have tournaments for this game is because everyone knows it isn't a viable competitive game. There are game breaking balance issues that are still present today. And when there is a tournament do you know who is played the most? Nurse. Why? Because she was one of the only killers able to actually control the match.
Now she is less fun and effective, while nothing else changed. If we get another tournament it might just be a huge joke because who will want to get creamed by SWF in a tournament when the only answer isn't an answer anymore?
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Man.. it's almost like she was SO overpowered for SO long that SOMETHING had to be done, and now they've taken your cake away from you. Cry us a river.
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That's funny, because I have run into many survivors who were able to juke me and make me switch targets. They didn't seem to have a problem with such an overpowered and unstoppable killer.
Just because you refused to play differently against her doesn't mean she is game breaking. She is unique and powerful, EXACTLY what a killer should be.
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If you want to hear my honest opinion about nurse. She is still broken and overpowered. She was way too time efficient previously in travel and chase times. She still is the most time efficient killer and to really balance her, they would have to rework her concept. Which in turn would cause a huge, real outcry. So they went with a mild, but elegant solution by just turning down her overall time efficiency without changing her core aspect. Imo nurse survived her rework pretty well. It could've been way worse.
Tournaments are a joke. Survivors are so strong, the very first tournament wasn't even about killer vs survivor. It was survivor vs other survivorteams on which team can farm the most points out of the poor killer, who was just a toy. And now nurse can really compete with their power level and go 50/50 on the perkless tournament. Says a lot about her powerlevel imo and that it needed to be tuned down. And mandatory to add, yes i would delete 4-swfs, cause that is the counterargument.
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We're on opposite sides of this issue here.
I believe she was a shining beacon of what killers should be. They should powerful, scary, and strong. She was all of that but only if you actually had skill with her. The perfect skill = reward scenario.
Instead of making her weaker they should've buffed all of the B or lower tier killers so they actually were similar in power level to Nurse. Then and only then should they have even considered lowering her.
Let's say she is balanced now, that is unimportant. No one wants to play a killer that you constantly have to watch the power meter on or get dunked with punishments. Killer is already a race against time and you can't make any mistakes if you want to even have a chance at winning. Why make the only answer to that worse without giving any other answers?
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Enjoy the nerf. :crab:
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Enjoy the game when the only fun that's left is playing survivor.
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Many People also gave positive feedback regarding the base kit changes to the Nurse.
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I do agree for the most part. I actually like going against midrank nurses. Having to play stealthy and immersed and act like its a horrorgame. She feels like a real killer. But then you enter highranks, where nurses become robots on their flowchart of farming survivors and it all becomes nonsense. At some point you have to do gens or unhooks and that's it about hide and seek. Now you're all inevitably going downed, slugged and destroyed.
I'd love see weak killers getting buffed, but the devs are very strict on not making strong killers again. So many details to keep killers weak and then they point to nurse and billy if you want to play highranks. A bad design choice, but they aim to keep this game casual. Play these killers if you're highrank, while we're making lots of weaker killers for the casuals, that are not meant to compete at highrank, so they dont have to balance everything.
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I'm sure the positive feedback didn't include anything about the numerous problems her new addons bring, or all the intricate and small details of her power that are now gone or almost worthless.
That's where the chase comes in. You learn how to juke her in a chase so your team can do what needs to be done. But yeah, I'm getting really sick of their casual attitude. I don't get the choice to play in the fun casual setting they think the game is, I have to constantly fight sweat squads or de-rank and abuse people nowhere near my skill level.
I understand wanting casual to be a fun selling point for the game but ignoring the huge imbalance towards the top of any game will only inevitably bring it crashing down when the problems become too huge and start to make their way into the casual side of the game.
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I dont like they casual attitude either, although its been improving as time goes on. Instaheal nerfs and although you dont want to hear it, nurse nerfs are a step in the right direction. She is a problem at highranks.
Nurse jukes are limited, best you can get are 50/50 when you leave LoS. With her previous fatigue, she would be starting her next blink immediately. Even if you juke her, you only gain a few seconds. Very Nursefavored in time management. So now its more balanced.
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She is a problem at highranks
Yeah, she kills survivors.
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I don't disagree, we can always strive for better balance and Nurse is no exception.
However, considering that they don't believe in balancing the game around high elo, and the multitude of other more serious balance issues and a plethora of weak non-viable killers; I believe we should have addressed all of that before working on Nurse.
It also really annoys me that they spout the "casual balance" philosophy and then go and change a killer who was ONLY effective in high elo. They seem to pick and choose when to listen to their own philosophy.
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I see a few problems in this, but it is better than what we got.
Anything could be better...
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If they normalized her speed and sped up the charge time a slight bit of her blinks recharge stacks I think it would definitely help fix her. Mainly normalizing her speed to that of at least hag maybe slightly better because her main issue will be the fact she cant keep up with anyone.
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Don't you see? Being an m1 killer is the best. Why would you even want some dumb power?
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Thats one of the great mysteries. Who they pick for balancing and what they consider unbalanced. Lots of invested players would buff weaker killers first. I would be wiser and better in the long run. It would be even better, if they actually understand balance and played highranked games themselves. Instead of doing devteam internal games, where you have to respect your workmates. And having r20 playtesters who dont play the game as it is played in reality and balance them around their playstyle. PtB Ghostface and MoM was sooooo far off the mark for example. Almost a slap in the face for any killer player, that they consider that acceptable.
Nobody knows why they dont work on balancing killers with each other. Guess they just have different plans and not enough money to support that.
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If BHVR insists on the Nurse changes, they HAVE to increase her base speed to keep up with survivors.
As it stands, being slower than survivors is no good. The fatigue and the forced wait assure that chases go on longer then they should.
I'm pretty sure someone tested this; if you run in a straight line, and get hit by the Nurse, she CANNOT catch up at 90% speed. Before, she was entirely reliant on blinks. But now that she can't rely solely on blinks for mobility, she needs a boost to keep up with survivors.
If she's as fast as Huntress or even Hag, that'd be fine.
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To be honest I misread what you typed. I do like your idea, but we'd have to see it in action to get a real sense on where to go with it.
Still better than what we got though!
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Even though recent events have shown that community feedback is sometimes just completely ignored, I still think you should do it.
Just make it constructive and easy to read. Even if they won't listen we can do our best to try and help improve the game.
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Base nurse was never as strong as people made her out to be. Omega Blink nurse i'll give you that was unfun but the nurse is easy if you duke and don't attempt to loop.
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They literally NERFED HER NEW ADD ONS! Bhvr what the hell? Yeah, she's been ruined. Any surv who knows who to break LOS has made prediction impossible.
Next up is spirit I guess, when they complain about her more. I can't believe they went through with these horrible changes.
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Positive feedback when her nerf was not functioning properly on the PTB - Solid
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so theres 2 killers at red ranks now? fun.
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Spirit is next. They said it on todays Q&A stream.
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Can you get a clip of it or the timestamp? Peanits said they had no plans for her but that was a while back.
Everyone is right, you can still play her in red ranks... Just don't expect to have fun.
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Huntress and Hag have the same speed.
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Well I hope most people stick with nurse otherwise i am looking at a very boring season as survivor, thanks bhvr.
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That link isn't working for me, unless I have a time machine. Thanks Twtich.
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Agreed, she didn't need a rework. I wouldn't mind them making have a longer fatigue or reducing her vision after coming out of fatigue. Her addons are so weird now and don't make any sense.
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Try this
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Yeah I would've been fine with a black screen and no sound if they really wanted to encourage the stealth aspect of her counterplay. I really don't enjoy the cooldown and m1 style they applied to her.
And yeah, some of her addons are actually well designed, but just as many are in need of work and some outright are just bad and will never be used... kind of like how they wanted to change that with the addon pass. Hmmmmm.
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1:03:00 into the stream
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The SS Killer always viewed as the 4K Queen before the Survivors ate like a solid year or two of nerfs got nerfed... it's about time. Though personally I'd take Prayer Bead and OHKO Huntress nerfs first.
Let's be honest here, if you're not 4King pretty consistent with her now, the problem was you.
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Yes, i'm also disappointed
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just played her 3 hours straight, 4k/3k nearly every game at rank 1 except when i was experiencing bugs (alot of them), or i was trying some of her addons. I completely agree i was shocked by how many addons were completely useless or the same as the old ones
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That's not true. When I faced groups who could actually play around her it was not an easy game. In fact many times they would escape with 2 because I spent so much more time in chase than I would against normal survivors who don't even attempt to play differently. Obviously these games were rare but by SWF rare is ok because it's not a majority of players using it :^)
@Mr_K I will look at it. Sucks the clips aren't working :(
@VexTheHex Survivors nerfs have been needed for the most part. Almost every time they get nerfed it is usually a gamebreaking aspect that is being abused up and down. For killers this is much harder since they're all actually different and therefor have different interactions in the game as opposed to survivor skins all being functionally the exact same.
Of course there are imbalance issues on survivor and killer gameplay, but since the killer is always alone and survivors can abuse anything x4 the nerf hammer has to come down more often on survivors than killers. You can also nerf a killer without ruining what makes them enjoyable.
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Any killer can double pip on a good day, even in Red Ranks.
With how sporadic game experiences are in this game, the last thing we need is a screenshot floating around as 'proof' that nothing is wrong or needs to be adjusted.
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Why do people not understand that her power, unlike most other killers, is necessary just for her to be able to GET anywhere, not just to win chases.
Maybe in chase the base kit changes won't be so terrible on good Nurses, but traveling through the map now is going to be a pain because you will need to use 2 blinks to get to where survivors might be and then suffer fatigue AND the recharge cooldown just to start the chase.
Sure you can use the recharge add ons to get something similar to old nurse, but then the rest of the add-ons will become completely unused by any Nurse that wants to do well in high ranks. Making the rework on then pointless.
"But maybe its not about winning! It's about having fun!" I hear you scream from the back. And you are right, but using the "fun" add-ons is not fun when your character feels sluggish and you feel like you stand no chance to do well. It's just frustrating.
I'm sure there was a way to make Nurse have more counterplay and keep being fun to play as, but these changes weren't it.
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I feel bad for Nurse. Omegablink was the only problem in my opinion. But now she's just the type of killer that requires only and only PERFECT blinks
If you miss, she's just the slowest killer in the game. I can't even laugh. Is just annoying
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"Slight Changes"
Almost all of her addons are garbage
Massive nerf to her basekit
Zero changes in response to feedback
What a bunch of garbage and lies from the devs.
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Also
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Don't worry by that point, most killers will either have quit or switched to survivor side, making the game dead.
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So if I want to derank I can just play the new and "improved" Nurse. Got it.
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Yeah she got hurt bad...
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I mean most people who played Nurse weren't god tier Nurses', they were just really good at her. It wasn't that difficult to toy with her long enough so that you can still do quite well as a survivor. The touch to her base kit really just made her very awkward to play, it's just not fun at all.
Unless you're a god tier Nurse that never misses blinks, reality is no one will play Nurse except those people. A lot of people don't understand just how massive of a change something like that is, and they did nothing to compensate for it at all.
Not only do you have your basekit working against you, but you also can get thrown off by the bug where her charge looks/sounds weird, by the terrain, by latency. The fact the recharge is so subtle you come out of fatigue to stare at the ground, stare at the survivor as you float along, then pay attention to your charges, since you need 2, then you have to consider where you're going. It's too much, really. There's already a ton of things that can hurt you when you blink. Before you could double blink to bridge the gap, but now if you do not get a hit within that double blink, the survivor will bridge the exact same gap. That sounds fair in theory but the reality is much different.
If you were decent as a survivor before with juking using LoS and a bit of distance, or manipulating loops that have difficult to blink through objects, you'll have no issue playing against a Nurse anymore, which is nice I suppose.
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They should be getting rid of the ding noise
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I by myself had 0 issues version g nurse but have issues against spirit. Not because op, but because unfun. Unfun because coin flipping, unlike nurse. But that's a different topic to discuss somewhere else, I get what you trying to say tho.
Just wanted to add: on tournaments there were some madlads actually trying Billy. You guys know what happened? 3+ survivors escaped every time. And it's not like these killers were bad. These were highly skilled Billy mains against a mix of survivor mains and killer mains who picked the survivor role. Just my 2 cents on how bad balanced this game is.
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As a Survivor main I'm actually disappointed with what they done with the Nurse. It's not even funny how much leeway I have now when a Nurse messes up. Low rank survivors probably wouldn't notice the difference but Jesus it is bad when you know what you're doing.
I have fun going against Nurse and the only thing awful about her is her Add ons which can make stupidly broken. Why this change happen is beyond me.
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