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Unique challenge problem...
So I'm a killer main. I hate playing survivor since it's not enjoyable at all to me. I actively avoid it.
Now that the Archives are out I'm forced to play the role I hate.
Ok fine, I can do some challenges even if they'll be exceedingly difficult for me with 0 skill in survivor.
I find myself at the challenge Plunder King which requires that I search 3 chest while using Plunderer's Instinct.
Plunderer's Instinct is a general perk that isn't base on any of the characters. The only way to get it is to pour bloodpoints into survivor until I get it. There is no guarantee as to when I'll get the perk and I'd much rather put the points into characters I will actually enjoy using.
Why are players like myself forced to play a role they don't enjoy in order to make efficient progress through the archives?
Why can't the same amount of progress be made through the Archives by both roles?
Is it something that will be changed in the future? Because I'm not confident I'll be able to complete the Archives and gain enough Rift Fragments to unlock the rewards I'm after.
And if people like myself can't complete the Archives and don't have the time to grind out the extra 86 matches to make up for the missed Archive challenges why should we be excited about purchasing the battlepass?
It actively discourages people like myself from purchasing the battlepass.
Will something be done about that or is this how the Archives will be in the future?
I probably won't be able to purchase the battlepass if I don't make reasonable progress on it... it'd be a waste of money.
Comments
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So you can have a better understanding from both sides? Idk as a surv main I didn't got any problem with the challenges and killer is not my favorite to play
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I agree that challenges that require an excess of skill/luck should have a second, grindier option for unlucky/less skilled players. That still wouldn't make the Archives/Rift totally casual friendly, but it'd be a start.
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I guess the concept is the same around daily challenges (just worse realized), i.e. making you play not only one single role/killer.
But, if this is the case, I guess that there won't be any challenges involving DLC characters/DLC perks.
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I kind of get where you are coming from but what I’m getting from your post is you want an all killers or an all survivors tree. If This is a choice of take the killer skill tree or survivor skill tree then the many people who play both sides get screwed. I understand that some of these challenges are a bit crazy. One of the things that's gonna help me personally is that I have a killer and survivor prestige 3 with all the perks that I can have as I haven't bought all dlc. This is their first time doing this in a pretty unique game so there's gonna be some trial and error.
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I'd actually prefer a node that has both options on it. this way it's the same tree, but everyone could complete it however they like with whichever role they prefer.
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I don't really enjoy playing killer, but I still do it from time to time to get better at the game in general.
I don't have a big problem to play both roles. I did all the killer ones in one day, they weren't that bad. I think the real problem is the difficulty of the higher rift tiers. I don't think that I will be able to complete tier 4. I'm not that good in playing killer and the survivor oes seem to be almost entirely luck based. Especially that you have to select one challenge and can only complete this special one could be problem I guess. At least for me.
All in all I really love the archives, brings some variety to the game. But I'm concerned about the higher tiers challenges. I think they might rather be frustrating than bringing fun to any role.
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For me it's the problem of being forced (coerced) to play a certain way that I don't find fun or enjoyable.
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that's what I hate about the trapper challenges my trapper is level 1 and I don't feel like playing a level 1 killer at rank 6
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I guess it pays off to actually play both sides regularly and play a diverse group of survivors/killers. It helps you understand why certain balance changes are made. And it also helps you to see that there are unfair and frustrating things on both sides and the devs do not cater to either side.
Yeah if you don't want to play both roles it's unfortunate for you that you'll miss out on some content or potentially not be able to finish the rift. But that's your choice and to claim you're being coerced to play survivor is absurd.
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Or does it force a player to play a role they don't enjoy which ends up ruining the match for the other players because the forced player is solely focused on finishing the challenges and nothing else in order to make the same progress as others.
Others are having a similar problem as survivor mains so I'm not alone.
Taking away player choice is rarely beneficial to the gameplay experience for everyone.
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I'm thinking on you when I see the new Hag outfit
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go for it my dude :D
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/528929155014721575/640285369367134209/unknown.png
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Personally, I would rather the game get you out of your comfort zone and try something else for once.
Only playing 50% of the game is not healthy because you only see things through that scope. Sure, you might have to spend some BP, but really, they can be earned back through play time. It's not like BP are a one and done type of currency. 😁
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Reminds me of when I started playing... I would always play the killers at lvl1 until I understood their powers... I actually did really well on most of them.
Begginers luck is powerful... XD
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Imo perks should be granted upon accepting the challenge which are needed for it on all characters at tier 3 and removed once it's done.
It's an extra uneeded grind in the game.
With that being said remember you don't have to do any challenges they are optional and not forced. I myself have a couple I won't bother with as I won't go out of my way to play in a way which affects anothers experience.
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This is a game and not school or work. People are playing the game in their free time to have fun. I don't see the sense in why they would have to get "out of their comfort zone" here.
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I think making someone get "out of their comfort zone" is perfectly acceptable when a player is refusing to try a whole half of the game.
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This game isn't just a survivor or killer only game, so you can't expect everything in the game to revolve around what you want because there are also players who like the other role as well.
Besides, playing one side is highly discouraged by the community. Why would you want players (or the developers to encourage other players) to play only 50% of the game they bought? You can't expect to get everything if you only play 50% of the game. 🤷♂️
At most, I can agree with a re-roll for specific archive challenges, that's it.
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I'm sure the OP already tried playing the survivor role before they decided that it doesn't bring them fun.
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Encouraging somebody to play only 50% of the game is not the same as not requiring somebody to play 100% of the game.
Also if everybody would play both roles equally, this game would be dead due to super long queue times. The survivor:killer ratio needs people to play one role more often than the other one.
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I used to hate playing survivor, but now I don't mind it. Killer can be super frustrating so it's nice to back away and have a chill survivor match. I really wish we could re-roll the challenges we get. I'm really not the healer type so being forced to get my teammates to let me heal them is super frustrating.
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It is just an encouragement thought as the whole participation is a choice itself.
You don't have to participate in the rift or challenges whatsoever it's not forced upon anyone. It's just an optional extra. You can also unlock the entife rift without doing the challenges (maybe not it all unless you play 10 hours a day every day but you will get at least half way through it with the challenges you can do)
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There is no comfort zone. It's not something I enjoy. Like some foods. You don't like some foods because you've tried them already so when you get food at your favorite place to eat you don't get that particular food.
You ignore the part of menu don't like and take part in the one that you do.
We have been given a buffet but we can't have desert until we've eaten the food we don't like from the breakfast section as well as the thing we do like from the lunch section.
Ideally, I'd like to see each node have a challenge for both killer and survivor. The PLAYER can then choose how they'd like to complete the node.
Whether they choose to run their main role, or try something new with the other role.
The main issue here is player agency and the ability to choose how they want to play.
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Just like Daily Rituals, the Archives' missions are designed to encourage you to play in a different way for a small bonus. I think most of the community would agree that everyone should be playing both sides anyway, and it's clear the devs are trying to encourage that.
That being said, you can complete the Rift without finishing The Archives, even if it takes longer. That's the cost of not being willing to play the opposite role.
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You're not required to play 100% of the game at all, but if you want the most from Dead by Daylight, it's a requirement. It's like working, you can't expect to get full pay when you only did half your hours. 🤷♂️
Also, the game wouldn't be dead because if both sides play both roles, they can always switch to the side that has the best queue times. That's why you don't want to encourage players to play only one role because they won't be flexible when they need to be (if they want a great experience). 🤗
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Survivor is not my jam either, but I'll suck it up for a few games. The bloodpoints really aren't a big deal either especially when there is both an event and double bloodpoints going on. If you have never unlocked a single survivor perk then I think you'll be surprised by just how fast you get the perk you are looking for.
While I would be happy with more challenges that can be done on either survivor or killer I don't really see them offering a one or the other only type option. In the meantime you'll just have to make a personal choice whether the battlepass is worth it to you or not. Fortunately, you don't have to decide right away. You have like 65 days to see how far you progress before making that decision.
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Tome levels can be completed by only playing Killer or Survivor, so you're not missing out on the bonuses for finishing the level technically. I see it as a bonus for those of us that play both roles.
My point about the Daily comparison was that they can be for either role. These missions encourage players to play both sides; therefore, they have something in common.
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Great that you compare this to working, because this is exactly my point: DbD is a game we are playing for fun. It's supposed to be the opposite from work.
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Was mostly a killer main before archives, right around rank 2, but archives showed me how fun survivor is. I'm currently rank 3 and love it. Unlocked every perk for Jake and god it's fun. I'm glad I can enjoy both sides. The unique trapper challenge was annoying though
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This. It is a video game, a leisure activity that is supposed to be the polar opposite of a responsibility or required task.
I don't main one role or the other... but if I did, I imagine I would be very put off by the way the Tomes are arranged. If I have a daily I don't like, I can throw it away to get another one -- which is something I usually do when I get ones that are attached to a specific survivor, or to a killer I don't care for. You can't do this with Tome challenges.
It would be great if, as other people have suggested, each node posed both a survivor and a killer challenge, and you could choose which one you want to complete. This would not harm the integrity of the Tome in the least, and it would probably result in more player engagement.
There are a lot of issues with the Archives system that I hope get ironed out by the time the next Rift releases.
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Sorry Space but this means you don't understand the survivor portion of the game at all, and it's about time you learn.
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I get that, but your not seeing my points. You cannot expect to get everything when you aren't willing to play the other half of the game. You have to put in 100% if you want 100%, but since you're putting in 50%, you're going to get 50%.
Just because Dead by Daylight is supposed to be "fun", that doesn't always mean it will play into your hands.
Also, I don't mean this to sound harsh, but it's the truth, this applies to everything — you get what you put in.
To clarify, I wanna say thank you for discussing this with me even through we have different view points. It's hard to find people who can disagree with me in a civilized manner! 🤗❤
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Or does it mean matches are going to be ruined because I don't care about the match and solely interested in finishing the challenges?
I finished the Archive level after several more matches than were necessary and I have no more appreciation for the role than when I started. I'm also no more skilled than when I started.
I have no desire to play the role again and I dread the next level where I'll be forced to ruin more matches.
Also,
This is only true if nothing is changed.
Which is the point of voicing concerns and issues such as these.
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You're forced to play survivor so you understand their problems, just like killer problems.
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Surely you don't mean this was the intent of the devs?
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So is the purpose of the archive challenges to understand a side or are they just additional content?
The problem many people are having is that they're attributing more importance to learning the other side than these challenges actually provide.
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I found out that this is happening challenge you can literally do whether or not the perk is active. You can hit them while uninsured and it counts
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I assume it is because the devs can clearly see that the majority of whining that happens in this game comes from players who 'main' one side of the game.
The survivor mains who moan about NOED and prayer beads and cries of OP within an hour of a new killer being released.
The killers who moan about any new perk that survivors get that isn't crap and any add-ons that assist them in any way whatsoever.
To try and show those 'mains' what it is like on the other side, they have implemented a system where you need to experience the opposite side of the coin to what you're used to.
For killer mains in survivor situations, you get to see how crap it is to be found first and have a killer stand next to you for 2 minutes until you die, or for the killer to chase you down within 2 seconds of coming off a hook, ignoring the unhooker and putting you back on a hook.
Survivors can experience how difficult it can be managing 4 people on the map from the start, locating, downing etc so maybe they won't be as crappy towards killers in future when they underperform.
The people who play both sides tend to be the ones who don't cry about every perk that gets released on the killer or survivor side. They don't moan that a killer had a certain perk. They don't demand nerfs 3 days after a new killer gets released. They don't camp a survivor because they did 2 loops of the killer shack or clicked a torch once to try and get the killer's attention off another recently unhooked survivor.
They're trying to reduce the insane levels of toxicity that exist in this community by showing both lots of 'mains' what it is like on the opposite side.
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@MPUK If that was the devs' intention, it will not work. For example: Somebody mains the survivor role and rarely plays killer. Their killer rank is perhaps 18. Now they are going to play killer on rank 18. They will have an easy match against low-rank players and now come to the conclusion: "Playing killer is easy, no struggles."
If you really want to make players see the other side, you would need to make them play a lot more than a couple of challenges.
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The challenges increase in difficulty as the levels unlock. It is going to change from being a handful of games where a challenge is cleared each game to multiple games to get one challenge cleared. This itself should be driving up their rank and pitting them against improved survivors.
Also, just because a killer is rank 15 and survivors are 15. Doesn't mean the survivors are bad. I have seen people get destroyed by bad ranked survivors who just turn out to be people who haven't played in a while or people who have multiple accounts.
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I mean. If they just doubled the amount of challange for each side and made them speprate pages of the tome (one page per tome) in a chapter I'd be fine with that a hotfix to this.
But while some people will say "you don't have to do it it's optional" they're kinda lying, as a newish/player who hasn't spent years maxing out every killer these challange are kinda required as it helps your bloodpoint earnings
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