My take on the Q&A 3.
Comments
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@SovererignKing
So 10% for each fresh hook..
1 hook: 80 x 1.1 = 88
2 hooks: 88 x 1.1 = 96.8
3 hooks: 96.8 x 1.1 = 106.48
4 hooks: 106.48 x 1.1 = 117.128
So gens should take almost 1.5 times as long once the killer has already made decent progress towards winning? That's the opposite of what should happen. Gens should take longer in the beginning and then decrease each time one is completed or with each hook. Like the first gen takes 100 seconds and with each completed gen the next one takes 5 less seconds and with each new hook it takes 3 less seconds, down to a minimum of 80.
Plus, with your idea + Dying Light or Freddy, or both, would be absolute cancer. The last gen, with all 4 hooks plus the obsession dead would take about 146 seconds. More than 2.5 minutes to do one gen.
That's not including Ruin or Thanatophobia. Against the Doctor with Ruin, Dying Light, and Overcharge? Nearly impossible to complete the last gen, if they get that far.
Like, you actually have to think these things through.1 -
You’re not seeing it correctly.brokedownpalace said:@SovererignKing
So 10% for each fresh hook..
1 hook: 80 x 1.1 = 88
2 hooks: 88 x 1.1 = 96.8
3 hooks: 96.8 x 1.1 = 106.48
4 hooks: 106.48 x 1.1 = 117.128
So gens should take almost 1.5 times as long once the killer has already made decent progress towards winning? That's the opposite of what should happen. Gens should take longer in the beginning and then decrease each time one is completed or with each hook. Like the first gen takes 100 seconds and with each completed gen the next one takes 5 less seconds and with each new hook it takes 3 less seconds, down to a minimum of 80.
Plus, with your idea + Dying Light or Freddy, or both, would be absolute cancer. The last gen, with all 4 hooks plus the obsession dead would take about 146 seconds. More than 2.5 minutes to do one gen.
That's not including Ruin or Thanatophobia. Against the Doctor with Ruin, Dying Light, and Overcharge? Nearly impossible to complete the last gen, if they get that far.
Like, you actually have to think these things through.
10% debuff is static for ONLY the first hook. Meaning that It will only apply 8 extra seconds PER Survivor.
It’s not accumulative each time the Survivor is hooked. Or are you under the misconception that the debuff affects all Survivors? It literally does nothing more than add 8 seconds base time to a Gen for a total of 88 seconds. This can be multiplied as you said by the aforementioned perks or Killers. That 8 second debuff with Freddy would add 16 seconds (doubled) meaning the Gen (if you actually do it all from start to finish in Nightmare World) would take a grand total of 176 seconds.
You’re doing the math all wrong. You’re doing the math thinking it’s accumulative EACH time the Killer Hooks. No,
its a one time, permanent debuff that affects ONLY the Survivor that’s been hooked.
Even if the Killer hooked every single Survivor once, all that means is that every Survivor now has a base time of 88 seconds per Gen, instead of 80 seconds. It’s basically just slapping an extra 8 seconds on a Gen as punishment for getting caught once. Survivors that never get caught, still get to do Gens as normal.
Plus, that’s some oddly specific builds your calling for. Not to mention, that would require tunneling out the obsession. Which would mean nobody is going to have the debuff anyway before it even becomes a problem. Or is the Killer going to make sure to one hook everyone first, then tunnel out the obsession? What are the other Survivors doing in that time?
Though anyway, it doesn’t matter. You did the math wrong, because you are under the wrong notion. Only the SINGLE Survivor hooked get a -10%, and ONLY for the first hook. It’s basically just the game saying “You got hooked once, your body is now crippled. Gens take 88 seconds to complete now instead of 80.”
Or... I didn’t clarify if you don’t watch Tru3. “Fresh Hook” means the Survivors first time being hooked, and ONLY thier first time, and ONLY for that particular Survivor. Apologies for not clarifying the definition of “Fresh Hook.”
This idea is not designed to slow down early game, this is designed to slow down mid-late game. This gives Survivors time in early game to prove their skills at not being caught, if they want to avoid an arduous mid-late game, and get good points. This provides the Killer a better chance at winning in mid-late game as a reward for not camping and tunneling.1 -
@SovererignKing
Your clarification changes everything, yes lol. Ignore my post. That would be a decent change.0 -
@Panduh
About pallets : I think you kinda misunderstood what I meant. The slight "delay" due to the spin is mostly about people standing at pallets and not moving. Right ? So these people are usually trying to mindgame or bait for stun, trying to pull out by reflexes/prediction. Prediction is just fine, as it's a mindgame. However, being able to just react by reflexes and still not get wounded out of the process is just unfair, since the killer has to mindgame about it, while the survivor doesn't. That's just all I say. If you have time to stand at the pallet, you should be able to predict and not be able to fully react only, as mindgames should be part of the game, rather than being a pure survivor sided feature.
Most of weird hits, in these occasions, are due to latency. It's not due to mecanics. The fact is, it may fix some of the issues due to latency, but it will also make the game harder for people with proper ping for underserved reasons, especially when Dedicated servers could be a thing.About the invulnerability : Not sure where you noticed a "complaint", I just stated I'm not sure that buff is necessary. It's not like you should unhook in a killer's face anyway. That's exactly why they're saying they want to punish unsafe unhooks. So it's just a basic contradiction.
And yes, everyone asked for more LOS breaker and less loops for ages, including the supposed "circle jerks of killers". We just ask for more stealth and mindgames when it comes to juking and pallets, so juking isn't just SB to the nearby strong vaulting spot and drop a pallet once in a while to reset BL.
As stated several times, killers ASKED FOR THE MAPS TO GET REWORKED FOR AGES NOW. Especially to have more vision blockers so people could hide/would have to GUESS rather than just being able to see where the killer is at.Additionally, don't act like bugs are getting fixed for us. They just do the bare minimum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjCOpo2Tqhs
We could talk about this one if you want, that is, imo, way more grevious than a few millisecond delay on a stun.And about your pallet stuns, I'll just drop this here, in case you wouldn't think pallets were already strong in the current state :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQbwmjvRfd82 -
@Runiver said:
@Panduh
About pallets : I think you kinda misunderstood what I meant. The slight "delay" due to the spin is mostly about people standing at pallets and not moving. Right ? So these people are usually trying to mindgame or bait for stun, trying to pull out by reflexes/prediction. Prediction is just fine, as it's a mindgame. However, being able to just react by reflexes and still not get wounded out of the process is just unfair, since the killer has to mindgame about it, while the survivor doesn't. That's just all I say. If you have time to stand at the pallet, you should be able to predict and not be able to fully react only, as mindgames should be part of the game, rather than being a pure survivor sided feature.
Most of weird hits, in these occasions, are due to latency. It's not due to mecanics. The fact is, it may fix some of the issues due to latency, but it will also make the game harder for people with proper ping for underserved reasons, especially when Dedicated servers could be a thing.About the invulnerability : Not sure where you noticed a "complaint", I just stated I'm not sure that buff is necessary. It's not like you should unhook in a killer's face anyway. That's exactly why they're saying they want to punish unsafe unhooks. So it's just a basic contradiction.
And yes, everyone asked for more LOS breaker and less loops for ages, including the supposed "circle jerks of killers". We just ask for more stealth and mindgames when it comes to juking and pallets, so juking isn't just SB to the nearby strong vaulting spot and drop a pallet once in a while to reset BL.
As stated several times, killers ASKED FOR THE MAPS TO GET REWORKED FOR AGES NOW. Especially to have more vision blockers so people could hide/would have to GUESS rather than just being able to see where the killer is at.Additionally, don't act like bugs are getting fixed for us. They just do the bare minimum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjCOpo2Tqhs
We could talk about this one if you want, that is, imo, way more grevious than a few millisecond delay on a stun.And about your pallet stuns, I'll just drop this here, in case you wouldn't think pallets were already strong in the current state :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQbwmjvRfd8The point being that there are moments where bad or just toxic survivors do it anyway, and when the hookee gets punished for it, it's very unfair and feels bad, especially considering the killer made the effort to not hit the farming rescuer when the rescuer would either get pulled off or not receive the speed burst due to being rooted in the unhook animation.
My point about map discussion is I never see discussion about adding longer, more, or new LOS breakers, just the requests to make looping and pallets appear less, which is reasonable- but why stop there, instead of making maps and game play with more interesting with mind games and -actual- jukes, which we seem to be on the same page about. Maybe not never I suppose, but far less common. I did visit the steam forums often too.
Considering I have asked every time about the teleporting back and forward, and every time has been answered back with "it happened on my screen too" it's more than just latency, even if latency is partially at fault. Donno what the video has to do with "my pallet stuns" considering I'm speaking of a bug, being hit through them while getting a stun. Kinda off topic if you ask me. I'm not opposed to advocating for no stun collision on the side survivors threw it down from, however. You act is if I enjoy bugs that effect killers. Lets get together, spam the Q&A videos, Bug reports, and emails about it! It's good that you have a video for it.
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@Panduh said:
The point being that there are moments where bad or just toxic survivors do it anyway, and when the hookee gets punished for it, it's very unfair and feels bad, especially considering the killer made the effort to not hit the farming rescuer when the rescuer would either get pulled off or not receive the speed burst due to being rooted in the unhook animation.Yup, it's pretty bad. Tho it's not quite the killer's fault if tunneling and punishing unsafe unhooks is one of the best way to win in this game, honestly. In that case, do you need to actually give more impact to the killer, or to the toxic rescuer ? Devs made their choice, seemingly. In any case, people will just adapt and slap the rescued as he starts moving, I guess, which won't change much.
My point about map discussion is I never see discussion about adding longer, more, or new LOS breakers, just the requests to make looping and pallets appear less, which is reasonable- but why stop there, instead of making maps and game play with more interesting with mind games and -actual- jukes, which we seem to be on the same page about. Maybe not never I suppose, but far less common. I did visit the steam forums often too.
It used to happen very often. But most people lost hope of a map rework, since all these devs can manage to do, honestly, is usually to move crates and eventually make them slightly taller (which still allow full vision for survivors and to be fairly visible for killers). THe only exception being the new shelter woods and some more tall rocks, added recently.
Considering I have asked every time about the teleporting back and forward, and every time has been answered back with "it happened on my screen too" it's more than just latency, even if latency is partially at fault. Donno what the video has to do with "my pallet stuns" considering I'm speaking of a bug, being hit through them while getting a stun. Kinda off topic if you ask me. I'm not opposed to advocating for no stun collision on the side survivors threw it down from, however. You act is if I enjoy bugs that effect killers. Lets get together, spam the Q&A videos, Bug reports, and emails about it! It's good that you have a video for it.
I've never seen it to happen even ONCE in 2 years.
When I read some people, I'm not even sure we play the same game, honestly.
I encounter a lot of bugs on a daily basis, but the survivor pallet bugs ? never ever. Sometimes, I just feel like I shouldn't have been hit by a killer. To make sure, I just use Nvidia Geforce experience replay feature and check, and I notice I just dropped it too late, everytime.
I've actually seen some weird posts and videos about people getting hit "through" pallets. Mostly looked like Latency in most cases. Whatever tho I guess, as long as the change ain't too visible. Pallets (and survivors) are strong enough in the current state.1 -
@Runiver said:
I've never seen it to happen even ONCE in 2 years.It only started coming up for me in this patch hence why I brought up the mandatory spin during the drop animation, I think the weird activation regions might have introduced a new bug. So there's a lot more delay from the survivor hitting the action and it ending. That or the infamous vacuum prevented us from seeing it before- good riddance lol. If you want a clip I can go look for it tonight, I think I have one or two saved. If not, my bad.
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@Panduh said:
@Runiver said:
I've never seen it to happen even ONCE in 2 years.It only started coming up for me in this patch hence why I brought up the mandatory spin during the drop animation, I think the weird activation regions might have introduced a new bug. So there's a lot more delay from the survivor hitting the action and it ending. That or the infamous vacuum prevented us from seeing it before- good riddance lol. If you want a clip I can go look for it tonight, I think I have one or two saved. If not, my bad.
It doesn't matter much, I'm no dev anyway, and I doubt my opinion will matter that much in that regard since they tend to simply ignore feedbacks when it comes to small tweaks anyway. Don't stress it out about the clip.
Thanks for the discussion and feedback, in any case.
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Im just seeing a lot of very small suvivor buffs here, that take the approaching balance of the game, and unbalance it further, because all those small changes add up to a moderate buff to the survivors abilitys.
Also, bloodlust is really not somthing that ever has an effect on chaces right now, in the current build, so why would it be a good idea to nerf it, wihout changing it in any other way except reducing the speed bonus?
Also im so sick of seeing "draft saved" every 3 and a half seconds when i try to comment with my phone, if anything needs nerfed its the redundanceies on this ######### website.
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Bl suks that is true.Should help get surv faster but what this do is barly see.Bl just don't make difrenc for killer if you must hit surv 2x basic atack.We know how this work i hit surv and lost Bl my 15 or 30sec time for chase only for 1 hit.Surv got speed from my hit so he can run faster to next pallet window.Bl should load in 8sec not 15sec and got palet on face.This is fail mechanik that same 2 Windows close each other wher surv can loop you all game.No mention about hex totems and placenent this totems.0
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@Runiver said:
Hello, first, make sure to watch this, if you haven't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw-ReSg0Ol4- Secondary objectives are a good idea. No project for it after 2 years of it being asked, however, is rather disappointing and doesn't make us think anything is gonna happen before at least 6 months, which isn't very promising to say the least.
- "Kindred" as passive for all survivors is just a buff to all survivors, including SWF. It's not closing the gap that much. Especially since Aura is WAY superior info than voicecom in general "I'm going for the save" is way different than being able to see who's the closest, who should go for the save and such. Not to mention the lack of mindgames and faster reaction of the team, and better coordination, which will make the survivor's team way more efficient, while it could have given room for snowballing before.
- WGLF not giving stacks & BP for unsafe unhook sounds pretty allright. May just force a BT pick but at least it'll give the hooked a chance in that scenario.
- Invincibility frame while being unhooked could do. But as not_queen stated : I'm not sure if you should unhook in the killer's face in the first place. Not sure why you would reward that.
- Faster unhook cancelling, I'm not sure why it should even be a thing. It sure is a room for more "mindgames" for survivors, and sure would help against camping to some extent, but it would also help with Bullying to some extent. Not sure why a HOOK mindgame should be survivor oriented. It's also a pretty huge nerf on Doc's grabbing, and most grabbing in general obviously.
- Dead Hard buff : a more responsive DH would be cool for survs. Tho, predicting it/being predicted while using it shouldn't be buffed, because that's the cost of it being on an activation button rather than automatic.
- Pallet stun speed increase : Could prove to be an issue, as it will transform a lot of mindgames into simple reflexes. While the survivor had to PREDICT to some extent (similarly to what the killer has to do, basically predict the survivor won't drop the pallet), now it may just allow reflexes to be enough. Not to mention a lot of experienced survivors are already hovering at the far end of the pallet, walking back and forward to make it a feint, that could be punished before that possible change, and may just not be, after it. Not to mention the looping aspect of the buff.
- Bloodlust nerf : As I stated above, that you probably read, as long as windows are so strong and lacking so much mindgames in several spots in the game, I doubt it would be changed. I can understand that BL3 is an issue as you can easily "cheese" a hit at some pallets using it, which is definitely wrong, but it also prevent extensive use of the same exact windows in succession. Basically punishes brainless play and force survivors to use SAFE pallets in order to pay for their extensive use of strong windows (that usually require no mindgames as they give full vision over the killer, and are usually surrounded by a lot of safe pallets anyway, aka Coal Tower entry pallet). Removing BL3 entirely sounds like a better option, overall, than nerfing BL2 speed, if you truly want to nerf something. You could easily imagine a simple time reduction (like 12-13s instead of 15) to get bloodlust, and only make it to have 2 levels, with the current values.
- The "Trap disarming" feature sounds very useless, as more traps are placed in tight corridors, and the disarming survivor will block the passage anyway. If the trap is not in a corridor, you can easily get past it considering the super small trap hitbox anyway. I'm not sure what's the thinking behind that, but I don't see any scenario when it could become handy to have that "feature". I'm not even sure survivors deserve it considering Trapper is far from being a huge threat, even post-buff, compared to the state you may want to bring him.
- The Statut reset/exhaustion recovery upon unhooking sounds both unnecessary and counterproductive. Unless you want Sprint burst to become even stronger. Not to mention it would make, in the case of you cancelling the "Mangled" status, to make a lot of add-ons to become obsolete. For example, the Billy Very rare Begrimed Saw and such, which would solely become Slugging tools. It's basically a nerf of its possibilities and strength that should at least be adressed/advised.
What's your opinion folks ?
imo survivors don't deserve any buffs for a few patches since they review bombed the game and killers still aren't the power role. Except at rank 21. Killers are always power role there
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@deadwolfwalking said:
"We know SWF is unbalaned. We're gonna fix it. We're gonna balance SWF by making solo play just as effective. See? We need 4 ppl happy to play and one miserable bastard to host em. We ******* hate killers " - DBD dev team 2018Omg that is so true! I can't even remember them saying ''We'll balance SWF.'' since it's been so long ago hahaha
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They are going to buff killers accordingly too yenno. Haven't you always wanted killers to be balanced to counter swf?KillingInstinct said:@deadwolfwalking said:
"We know SWF is unbalaned. We're gonna fix it. We're gonna balance SWF by making solo play just as effective. See? We need 4 ppl happy to play and one miserable bastard to host em. We ******* hate killers " - DBD dev team 2018Omg that is so true! I can't even remember them saying ''We'll balance SWF.'' since it's been so long ago hahaha
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@Hillbilly420 said:
Just to add onto this: if they go ahead with this change then basement parties are #########. All it takes is one guy to Kobe, you're not allowed to hit them, and they can free the rest of the hooked Survivors.LOL no. They aren't talking about giving survivors seconds of invincibility. They are talking about giving them invincibility UNTIL THEY HAVE CONTROL OF THEIR CHARACTER. That means you can't hit them until they can act. Literally only applies the unhook/kobe animation itself, as currently you can hit them during that animation (when they have no control) and it counts. Now they have a MOMENT to dodge a hit. If you are standing right there and just wait for the animation to finish you will be able to hit them down. Just wait until you see them move after the animation is finished SMH.
@KillingInstinct said:
imo survivors don't deserve any buffs for a few patches since they review bombed the game and killers still aren't the power role. Except at rank 21. Killers are always power role thereThey aren't buffs as much as they are bug fixes and QoL changes. Pallet drops are borked right now because sometimes it does the long animation which means you get hit. You guys act like there are no issues playing survivor when there definitely are. I can tell who are the killer mains here. You basically want them to just totally ignore any problems survivors have and only focus on killers because that's all that is important to you.
This place gives me cancer.
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The invincibility in combination with the hit registration and SB will be the like the old BT.thesuicidefox said:@Hillbilly420 said:
Just to add onto this: if they go ahead with this change then basement parties are #########. All it takes is one guy to Kobe, you're not allowed to hit them, and they can free the rest of the hooked Survivors.LOL no. They aren't talking about giving survivors seconds of invincibility. They are talking about giving them invincibility UNTIL THEY HAVE CONTROL OF THEIR CHARACTER. That means you can't hit them until they can act. Literally only applies the unhook/kobe animation itself, as currently you can hit them during that animation (when they have no control) and it counts. Now they have a MOMENT to dodge a hit. If you are standing right there and just wait for the animation to finish you will be able to hit them down. Just wait until you see them move after the animation is finished SMH.
@KillingInstinct said:
imo survivors don't deserve any buffs for a few patches since they review bombed the game and killers still aren't the power role. Except at rank 21. Killers are always power role thereThey aren't buffs as much as they are bug fixes and QoL changes. Pallet drops are borked right now because sometimes it does the long animation which means you get hit. You guys act like there are no issues playing survivor when there definitely are. I can tell who are the killer mains here. You basically want them to just totally ignore any problems survivors have and only focus on killers because that's all that is important to you.
This place gives me cancer.
I don't have any problems as survivor. Maybe explain your problems.
But remember, killers have been nerfed hard for 2 years. Survivors received now a minor nerf, and suddenly survivor is unplayable.
I play both and on rank 1. If that matters to you.0 -
@Tsulan said:
The invincibility in combination with the hit registration and SB will be the like the old BT.I don't have any problems as survivor. Maybe explain your problems.
But remember, killers have been nerfed hard for 2 years. Survivors received now a minor nerf, and suddenly survivor is unplayable.I play both and on rank 1. If that matters to you.
No it won't stop talking out your ass. The survivor has a chance to do something after being unhooked. If you are right there you can still easily hit them when they start moving, there aren't that many paths available to get away from a hook like that.
Problems with survivors: drop pallet and get a stun but still get hit, slow vaulting when it should be 100% fast vaults, being locked to the unhook animation making it impossible to stop and avoid a hit if the killer comes, just to name a few. Survivors do indeed have problems, most of them bugs from weird animations.
Also I am rank 1 for both too. If you don't see problems with survivor then you are just blind. You people act like the devs should just never do anything positive for survivors. Or you act like any little thing they do to make survivors better is automatically a huge killer nerf that will totally ruin killer. No, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Polishing up a few animations won't suddenly make killer unplayable.
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How much easier do you want survivors to be? Do you want to start with the gates already opened?thesuicidefox said:@Tsulan said:
The invincibility in combination with the hit registration and SB will be the like the old BT.I don't have any problems as survivor. Maybe explain your problems.
But remember, killers have been nerfed hard for 2 years. Survivors received now a minor nerf, and suddenly survivor is unplayable.I play both and on rank 1. If that matters to you.
No it won't stop talking out your ass. The survivor has a chance to do something after being unhooked. If you are right there you can still easily hit them when they start moving, there aren't that many paths available to get away from a hook like that.
Problems with survivors: drop pallet and get a stun but still get hit, slow vaulting when it should be 100% fast vaults, being locked to the unhook animation making it impossible to stop and avoid a hit if the killer comes, just to name a few. Survivors do indeed have problems, most of them bugs from weird animations.
Also I am rank 1 for both too. If you don't see problems with survivor then you are just blind. You people act like the devs should just never do anything positive for survivors. Or you act like any little thing they do to make survivors better is automatically a huge killer nerf that will totally ruin killer. No, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Polishing up a few animations won't suddenly make killer unplayable.
That's not balanced. But you don't want balance. You only want your ez match where everyone escapes.
Pallets are not supposed to be save. If you want to hit the killer, you risk being hit aswell.
Fast vaults depend on the angle. You might wanna spend some more time with vaulting.
The invincibility buff will avoid your hit.
Are those all the problems survivors have?
Boooiiii I wanna have your problems.1
