Playing against spirit is mindgame, not guessing
People seem to misunderstand the meaning of "mindgame" and "guessing"
When you play against spirit, you see her standing still, you starts to think and predict. The moment you start thinking has already made the scenario mindgame, not guessing. You make your choice about what you want to do based on the situation and other factors.
If it is guessing, you should not think, and simply do whatever you want with no logical reason. That's what called guessing. Clearly nobody does this, because you have a good brain and mind to make the choice that you think it's the best.
I know spirit has many clues that can tell what you're doing. But that's exactly her main power, to give her some advantages by eliminate some mindgames survivors try to do in some situation. Otherwise if her power doesn't give her any advantage over survivors, why should you using it?
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Bingo
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No
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I never do any of that with Spirit, I find a loop and stick to it and wait for bl3 until I drop.
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I like playing Vs her because it is very different to just running around pallets and requires some thinking
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people don't like using their brain against a killer, that is why the 2 killers you need to use your brain against them, nurse and spirit, are getting/have been nerfed. they would rather have brainless games of running in circles then throwing a pallet, run to next pallet, rinse and repeat with all M1 killers
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Get that logic away from the potatoes, you're runing the field!!!
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I play on switch so I don't see many nurses or spirits,but I love when I do see them. They make you adapt and think on your feet.
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Kindly explain please? It's rude to just say a "no"
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A mindgame implies both sides have information to base their decisions on. Spirit gives little to no information about what she's doing, so it's as good as a guess, whether you should jump over the pallet or not while she's motionless.
I just used Prayer Beads for the first time earlier today, after playing Spirit for months. And hoo boy, does it ever make the situation about a thousand times worse. That add-on is super-BS.
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Pretty sure the 176% movement speed it gives would still be a good reason to use the power, lol.
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Lol "The moment you start thinking it's a mindgame" is such a dumb argument.
Is waking up and wondering what you'll have for breakfast a mindgame too? What about deciding to ######### on hook after getting hooked by a spirit, is that a mindgame too?
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Actually, you have information, which is how the spirit plays in the game, and base on your experience of versing spirit, you can make prediction.
Spirit also lose some information when using power too. If you're not injured, most of the time spirit won't know where you are either. So it's both ways, spirit needs prediction and experience
This has already make the situation a mindgame
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You misunderstood my post i guess, or you didn't read the whole post
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We're in a chase. I throw down a pallet, and you remain motionless near the pallet. I have literally no way to know what you are doing. You might be coming around to hit me. You may just be standing there. I have no information about where you are.
I get what you're saying, in the sense that you can theoretically learn how a given Spirit plays. But it starts out as a guessing game no matter what (since you have no way of knowing during your first chase), and the Spirit player can just switch up what they do, and so then it's still a guessing game.
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So you only use her power for travelling the maps? If her power doesn't grant her any advantage during chase, like legion ff on already deep wound survivors, why use it?
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I wouldn't say going against someone who literally gives you no feedback on what they are doing is a mindgame. In fact, both sides aren't really "mindgaming" that much.
Spirit mostly reacts to what survivors are doing like moving the grass, scratch marks, grunts of pain, breathing, footsteps etc. and the actual mindgaming isn't that much.
Survivors have 0 information on what she is doing and they mostly just guess. That's not to say you can't do anything against her and you can definitely predict some things but I wouldn't say it's a mindgame.
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When spirit starts chasing you, she doesn't know what you will do too. So it goes both ways
Actually, the subtle indication about she is phasing or not has mindgame potential. Because spirit does not know whether you notice it or not. She might mindgame herself with this in mind.
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that 176 speed isnt anything to laugh at in chase either though. Its not like she moves at 110 speed while phasing mid chase, 176 speed can easily be used to catch a survivor who leaves a pallet.
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So moonwalking as m1 killer at some walls when survivors cannot see the killer is not mindgame too? The information you get is 0 too
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So i think the conclusion is, versing spirit is a mindgame that looks like guessing. Because you cannot say it's guessing when prediction and analysis comes into play for both sides. So you're playing a mindgame, but feels like guessing because the odds you win the mindgame is skew towards spirit
IMO it should be like this, because she still has other 3 survivors to take care. If she and survivor has equal odds of winning the chase, then she is not going to win the game because the game goes really fast
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The information is limited, but not 0. Typically as a survivor, you would just choose to keep a safer distance from blindspots allowing you time to react when you see the killers model instead of their redlight. The killer would still benefit from doing their trick, due to the survivor not getting as much of a heads up and getting less distance.
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Survivors hear intenstity of heartbeat (unless it's a ghostface) , partially see red light moving , can hear swing of weapon during lunge , spirit in her phase doesn't give you a jackshit .
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You still can see red light through walls? Just curious
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No, that's a mindgame since you know they around the loop and you can still see them coming. Both sides have basically the same amount of information in that situation.
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Btw does wearing frost eye as spirit gives away when she is phasing? I asked this in other posts, but no one reply
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It was possible on low settings but that was fixed in the latest patch as far as I know. I'm currently playing on low and I didn't notice anything since the patch.
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I'm not talking about being able/unable to see red light through walls , you can see it when killer rotates around corners while mindgaming
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At least she is standing still, so you know the mindgame is coming, whether she is faking it or really phasing
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Guess with a 80% chance to get hit *
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Yeah... I really have to disagree with this, Spirit herself is like a casino where you will almost lose every single time, standing still should not be a "mindgame", it feels lazy and way too easy to use for a quick down/hit on a survivor who has no way to know how to react.
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I usually hate when people just respond with "yes" or "no" in a discussion. But this time it's perfect lol
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There is no indication. And Spirit has all the clues in the world to pinpoint your location.
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Quote the wrong person?
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Oops, I sure did! That was meant for OP.
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Actually the 2nd example is not a mindgame.
If I can see you moving the ball then I can pretend you don't exist and just follow the ball. No need to get into your head and try and predict your next move and psychology won't help me.
To contrast if you blindfold me and put the ball under a cup then the only information I have is statistics on what most people do when placing a ball under cups. From there if we play this multiple times I can use this to determine what cup you in particular place the ball under and use that to determine where the ball is next in the sequence.
If I'm blindfolded I have insufficient information to deduce an answer, so I must use psychology and pattern recognition to make up for the difference. Thus it's a mindgame.
If I can see you then I have sufficient information to deduce an answer, thus I have no need to continue gathering information outside of the mechanical information I already have. Thus it is not a mindgame.
A key thing to note is that you cannot preform a mindgame with a computer
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No, it's guessing.
The Spirit can track survivors but survivors can't track the Spirit.
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This is honestly the biggest thing that bugs me: survivor has limited information, not a mindgame
killer gives up ALL information: you're mindgaming the survivor! (knowing where the survivor was, and maybe grunts of pain if they're injured + not iron willing, which is sort of what the spirit gives you, where she is)
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What you say: "mind games"
What I hear:
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If the information could be false then it was never information to begin with.
And even if it wasn't the Spirits stand still mindgame would qualify anyways.
Regardless though when you break it down information just narrows down which options could possibly work. When that information is enough to narrow it down to at least 1 action that is guaranteed to succeed and then you act on this it's called a reaction.
When it fails to produce a guaranteed success option for both players a mindgame is what comes next.
When it comes to a red glow mindgame the setup of either 360ing or doubling back creates such a scenario, since the Survivor lacks the usual mechanical information to guarantee an escape he must instead use psychological information to predict which action the Killer has actually taken and then can act based off that.
Meanwhile the Killer obviously can't know for sure which action the Survivor will predict (since he hasn't predicted it yet) and thus also must use psychological information to make a prediction.
This is why you can't use a red glow mindgame at every wall, since some walls are long enough that you can react without first seeing the red glow.
The point is that when broken down false information is the same as the information it's pretending to be, since ultimately they narrow down the same thing due to the possibility of the other.
In otherwords a Wraith M1 can be just as much of a mindgame as usual Wraith M2 since if you can make someone think and M2 is an M1 then you can make them think an M1 is an M2.
To go back to your coin analogy:
* If the way you grabbed it is such that my senses alone is enough to determine what hand it's in then it's still a reaction. No amount of attempted trickery will help if I still see the coin.
* If however the way you grabbed the coin is such that my senses cannot determine where the coin is then it's the same thing as blindfolding me. Either way I must use what I know of you and humans in general in order to determine where the coin
This is why for example you can win with greater than random chance in rock paper scissors when playing against people. You can increase your odds further if you play multiple rounds and the more rounds you play the better you can get your odds with diminishing returns. Since rock paper scissors meets the minimum requirements for a mindgame you can use psychology to win.
In Dead by daylight specifically the only real difference from a red glow mindgame and a Spirit mindgame is that the Spirit can initiate a mindgame almost anywhere while red glow mindgames are limited to short walls most of the time.
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That's not a mindgame. Mindgame is when a survivor blinds you or t-bag you so you start chasing him/her because him/ her makes you angry. Mindgame is playing a trick with your mind, manipulating it.
Actually there are not much mind games in-game.
Nurse's the same. Where the survivor go, some players will say "mindgame" but it's just a guess or an assumption if you want.
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At that point we're debating semantics. Would it help if we call it a prediction game instead?
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