Do you guys seriously think Ds is fine in the current state?
I was reading a post about the ds, where one of the devs commented ''just slug the ds'' or ''wait for the lockers''. honestly i love you for all the work you do for improving this nice game, but these answer are clearly ignorants. What's a common scenario? i didn't tunnel and i still get ds'ed..i get my momentum slowed down.. survivors should be scared of killer not running into it.. lockers.. oh lockers.. now i just go i into lockers and i'm invincible..seriously how stupid is this? if i wait out there too much i may lose the game.. maybe ds wasn't that much worse before..i can counter new ds by slugging or don't tunnel? o damn i get ds'ed even when i don't tunnel! guess what else, slugging is the counter for the new ds? oh there are lockers lmao.. i do agree we need something about tunnel, but ds is not only for that..60 seconds in this game are huuuge... it defintely shouldn't work when you hooked another survivor or they get into lockers.. these are the only changes this perk needs.. said that i'm not salty it was just a reflection, about my experience as someone who play both sides, but also for what i see(you know during streams etc..)
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Just chase anothe person or let them spend the ds. It is so easy to counter the perk
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yes, ds is fine and easy to counter, unlike the old one.
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Yes.
- It's on a timer.
- It's a one time use
If a survivor you have hooked comes running at you, down them, and slug them. Slugging is such a powerful tactic. It's odd that I only see killers complain about it when they're told to do it to counter DS.
If you don't tunnel a survivor off the hook, and you slug the ones that have just been un-hooked, it's pretty safe to assume you wont see DS in a single match, it will then become a wasted slot for survivors.
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Unless they do something about camping/tunneling, ds is fine.
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Even being a survivor I do feel like DS is a bit op. Let's say a killer wasn't busy chasing others after having recently hooked someone because they couldn't find others. So they go back to the hook and let's say they're still in the area. They down the unhooked and even if they go for the other, usually the other person is down and hooked before DS runs out or the chase goes on long enough and the unhooked person is healed up by someone else so you still wasted a lil bit of time even worrying about them for even a second. If by chance they're not healed up by the time a long chase is over, they usually get salty they got slugged and get all toxic.
How it could be nerfed though? I dunno. I wouldn't know how to balance it.
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I think it's overperforming.
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yeah it's fine let's all go into a lockers and get a 1 minute immunity from a supernatural killer.. lockers op confirmed.. yeah '' just do the gens guys, even if he hooked other 3 survivors i still have 30 seconds of immunity, i get killer attention or bodyblock you guys, then if killers pick up me up it'gg''.. yeah the problem is that is not an antitunneling perk. it's a 1 minute of god mode... ds would be fine if it wasn't a slowing down killer momentum, and didn't work into lockers.. guys open your eyes
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@Venoxxie i think the changes i proposed are enough.. the perk will still be on the strongest but less bullshit
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DS is almost same as NOED imo.
Both are really strong, but both have easy counters. DS even more since you can see that at least one has it for sure, if you don't use obsession perks yourself.
I play both sides and I think DS is fine where it is. I never really have problems with it as killer and as survivor it is often a wasted perk slot for me. It can save a life, but I only get to use it in like 1 out of 10 games maybe.
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I wish I would not need to equip DS in the first place, but yes, it is fine.
It rarely affects me as Killer and if someone jumps right into my face, I slug them: They might get away by being healed up, but this is just good for me, less people on Gens.
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DS is not only an anti-tunnel perk.
The idea behind it initially was to “stab” the killer upon being picked up. This was changed and given a condition and a timer... which can also be used to counter heavy tunneling off hook.
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guys you clearly don't understand, is not that the perk is op, it's that is bullshit..the only counters you have is wait or don't chase that survivors.. this mean that he can do whatever he wants after that... you start a chase, remember that survivors may have ds, he goes into a locker, you need to ignore him, find another survivors start a chase...you can't slug him, you can't pick him up, you lose pressure... you you know how much time is that right??... ok..
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By the time they get found, if they go into a locker after you’ve already found someone else it shouldn’t be that long.
Going into a locker is a fair counter to how easy it is to slug a survivor. You can slug indefinitely not just when players have DS. You can also just eat it and not have to deal with it during EGC.
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i remember a game as a billy on haddonfield, perfect game fast hooks, no ruin, no tunnel, guess what? i got ds'ed.. that ds'ed made me lose the game... you guys are understimating how bullshit this perk can be
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Discouraging tunnelling is a really good idea, encouraging slugging is not.
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@Johnny_XMan not really, if they split up... good survivors always split up...imagine if you are a 115% killer with no map pressure.. imagine huntress..just eat it.. yeah.. that time can makes much difference from losing a game or winning it..
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Please, can you go into more detail?
How does one have a perfect game yet 'lose', what was the end result?
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@ChiTenshi it was an example.. perfect game because playing billy with no add ons no ruin on haddownfield and get 3 hooks in the first 1-2 gens for me is a winning game.. but finding people on haddonfield isn't that easy, and you know with no ruin gens can fly.. i got ds'ed by a full healed kate without tunneling, in the middle of the game where i made no mistakes.. and that was where i lost.. i got like 7-8 hooks but ending up with no kills a sabo hooks in the endgame, after that i don't deny that i rage quitted lol.. it was like some months ago.. just an example
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DS should just disappear the moment you touch a gen.
in exchange it could be up for 2 minutes to counter tunneling even harder.
the "immunity" after the hook is a huge problem. if you run to a gen with a looker near by, you can make 2 things
1) you will do this gen with nearly 60 seconds immunity, so he will be done after DS runs out.
2) if the killer tries to stop you, just get in the looker. no need to waste pallets. if he stays, your 3 mates will pop 3 gens in 60 seconds.
as killer, you have sometimes to protect certain gens and if a gen is half done and a DS user just runs to it with a locker nearby, you are just fcked hard. camping him at the locker or giving him the gen for free.
this is not how the game should work.
i would love more anti tunneling and camping mechaniks, but not if they can be abused like this.
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I really don't get how DS is such a problem for anyone. I use DS a lot because tunneling has been a popular tactic recently, and pretty much always is my DS already ran out by the time the killer found me again.
If they did find me before my DS ran out, I'll already be healed and by the time I go down, my DS has expired. Rarely ever do I get to use it if the killer doesn't camp / tunnel.
So how is this such a big problem? Sounds like it's a killer problem, not the perk being "broken" or OP.
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I rarely get to use it tbh cause I rarely get downed after 60 secs. Its completely fine.
Playing as killer i dont get stunned by it as much to be a problem IMO
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I would prefer a few changes. If someone else is hooked before you are downed, it should deactivate, likewise if you are fully healed.
I'm tired of people weaponising it. It's meant to be a perk to discourage tunneling, not "I'm going to bodyblock chases and get in your way because I'm invincible for a minute."
I also really hate that lockers work to force the stun. The timer goes down on the ground so that there IS some form of counterplay to someone running the perk. Jumping into a locker completely disables all counterplay. At least a slug you can keep track of while doing something, but someone in a locker, you either need to stare at for a full minute, or just go "lol you win, you're in a locker" and tank a stun or leave.
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I feel like there is more to this than 'DS made me lose', sounds like you're focusing your anger on this one perk and ignoring everything else.
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@ChiTenshi not really, because you know a perk it's bullshit when it changes the dynamic of a game..perks should help you, not change an entire game.. maybe if you play killer more you may understand me.. i guess you don't
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@anarchy753 exactly that's the entire point.. i don't want the perk to be gutted, just to be fair
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I'd happily take a longer stun if it they would either reduce the timer or make the perk deactivate when certain conditions are met.
I should be punished if I tunnel, but only if I actually was tunneling.
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Many perks/add-ons change the dynamic of a game, that doesn't necessarily means it's bad. It ensures a game is constantly changing and not repetitive/stagnant.
So how did the 1 DS change the entire match for you? What did you have to do differently that caused you to 'lose' the match?
And I play Killer plenty, that doesn't mean my opinion is less valid. A chef may serve you bad food but that doesn't mean you can't voice your opinion because you're not a chef.
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because you dont abuse it. as i wrote before, you are able to abuse it hard and alot of ppl are doing just that. you are granted to do a gen or waste the killer time for more than one gen if you do it right. i didnt just that a few time and i get the same in my fasce as kilelr a few times. if you have 4 survivors who are decent and know what they have to do, they get a value of DS that is way above every other perk, even if it is a anti tunneling perk
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@ChiTenshi only adrenaline and ds can change that much the game for a survivor..but at least with adrenaline, you probably just lost the game yet, it only destroys your fews hopes of winning it, unless you are using noed..one ds can change the game,imagine 3 or 4.. because you know if we take a balanced map like haddonfield, where chases are rough, and you even get ds'ed i don't think i need to explain more, but that was just an example, i can give you a lot more of those to make you understand how the ds is unfair many times..
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yes I think D strike is fine. Its very situational and doesnt help you always.
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yes sometimes i almost miss the old DS, how many times you will down a survivor who just unhooked someone, ( notice that you intentionally focus the unhooker) picking him up and guess what? you get DS'd:"#########,i guess i tunneled then". Those situations are quite frequent especially when you chain hook survivors quickly.
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Yes, I hardly see this problematic.
Does it happen that I get DSed even tho I haven't tunneled? Yes. Does it happen often? No. Does it make me lose when it happens? Veeery rarely.
Post edited by justarandy on3 -
No its not fine ds = slugging why ? Because most survivors will abuse 60 immunity to either 1 troll the killer / or 2 try save another survivor meaning now 2 people have gotten of free. because unless u camp that person who has ds (after you hit them) they will 9/10 get revive.
Ds should make survivor think ok i need to go far away from the hook.
Unfortunately right now survivors run towards the kill when they got ds to either troll, hide in locker body block another injury survivor, (because there immunity) and then cry tunnel when they get hit and left
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Or chase that survivor for a minute or go chase someone else, or go destroy some pallets and kick some gens.. There are so many thing you can do during those 60 seconds. Or let them use it early in the game just so you're sure they dont have it during end game. I dont see the big deal.
Even if you guys say its not "anti tunnel" it is. Like I've said a few times, It almost always goes to waste for me cause i rarely get downed within a minute of being unhooked.. why? cause the killer focuses on the other survivor that rescued me or because I was far enough to waste it or because the killer decided to chase someone else or destroy something else..
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If the killer slugged one survivor and hooked another, that's at least 3 people off gens if that other person is getting picked up. How is this a loss? Also if you slug someone who was just unhooked you still tunneled.
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**Casually glosses over Adrenaline and NOED**
How often do you encounter a match where the Survivors have 3 or 4 DS? Matches like those are uncommon and usually have SWF teams, which escalate all annoyances.
On Haddonfield, take an Ebony Mori; that counters DS. /s
Any stupid examples I will ignore.
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@ChiTenshi actually very often, i play at presitgious rank 1 you know, evey game at least 2-3 survivors got ds..well we have different opinions, i will not try to change yours anymore, i just recommend you to play killers more.
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If people didn't tunnel so hard the higher you go, people wouldn't be bringing DS because it'd be pointless.
Here's the thing. If you managed to hook another person before a person was unhooked, or directly after, and you down the unhooked survivor, you have significantly more pressure anyways. Eat the DS, don't tunnel, or slug. It's not like they'll get away from you in most instances anyways, and after that you can tunnel them all you want.
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Didn't know that was a rank above Rank 1 called Prestigious Rank 1 (Please stop talking to people as if you're above them).
I'm red rank in Killer so please stop saying 'play killers more'. Maybe DS is more common than I think, but because I treat it as a mild inconvenience and move on I don't negatively obsess over one perk so much.
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@ChiTenshi well you can't even get the sarcasm lol i'm not above anyone, but i don't take so much seriously survivor main, or those who don't play killer enough sorry
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Or because you dont tunnel.
@lunaticlifter so, just because somone doesn't main killer it means you are gonna disregard their opinion? I play both the same so, since that doesnt make me killer main that's good to know so I don't bother nor waste my time.
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I love how people are saying "just slug them" Killers time is more valuable, if he needs to slug every survivor who recently had been unhooked could mean losing the game. Every second you spent guarding the slugged person, could be 3 seconds on the generators. Sure you can leave and patrol gens, which is risking losing that hook you deserved and maybe not even finding next survivor
You don't even need to camp nor tunnel to find same survivor again, most of the time they just go repairing same generator close to you, becouse they know if you touch them, you get punished.
One way to make DS more fair would be keep the 60 seconds, but if killer goes like 32 meters away, the timer goes with double speed. So you have 30 second immunity if killer stays far away.
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@MissBehavingX nope.. but if they just come at me telling me that ds is completely fine, without telling a good reason why ds is fine and should not be changed, there is something you are lacking for sure.. it's not kinda like old MoM for sure, but still..
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If the killer stays far away then DS will become useless anyway, so it's pretty much the same. Unless hes just walking around the map doing nothing? I'd assume killers that are far away will find a survivor or a pallet to destroy or a gen to kick, even if that didnt take 60 secs by the time he finds the survivor again and the chase starts im sure those 60 secs are gonna be over.
And like someone said previously. Even if you get DS stunned, most of the time the killer will catch up and down them...
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How can people abuse it though? If they run into you like an idiot, you down them and go do whatever you were already doing. Gen patrol, chase, hook the other guy you just downed.
The only time "abusing" works is if you, as the killer, fall for it. I see people saying slugging is bad but it's actually a powerful tool because the person on the floor can't do anything. Then another person needs to go ahead and pick them up, which takes some time, too. They hurt themselves more than they hurt you. If they still haven't been picked up a few seconds later, their DS is over and you can hook them easily, no chase needed.
This 100%. You shouldn't be eyeballing the hooked guy, you should already be chasing someone else. If you aren't chasing someone else by the time that guy got unhooked, that DS isn't the only problem you're having, you're likely already losing the game.
If a survivor thinks they're smart stuff and unhook behind you... chase the rescuer? Maybe hit the guy who just got rescued so they can't do anything, but leave them, chase that other guy. DS avoided, 3 people off gens, pressure is high.
If you can't find anyone else to chase, DS isn't the problem, it's you not being able to find targets that's the issue. If you have trouble finding people, there's a bunch of perks or even add-ons for some killers to help you with that, use them.
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DS got already nerfed. Like I've said before, even if you dont mean to tunnel and end up downing the same person, if you get hit by DS you will most likely chase him and down him again. They say to slug, but if you refuse you can go after whoever rescued them, use make your choice so that gives u an incentive to chase that person instead? If you dont wanna use another perk to counter that perk then, like i said, do something else. Kick some gens, wasting your time going after that specific survivor will make the others complete the gens faster anyway, and will likely escape..
Complaining about the 60 secs of DS is like complaining about the 60 seconds of make your choice or haunted grounds, it's basically the same.
The only excuse I read over and over is DS during endgame. Just like survivors complain about NOED. Both may seem unfair to the other during end game. But it's just a way to give the other party a "last chance" of surviving/killing.
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DS is not a problem for killers it's such a huge overreaction they have towards it. If your only complaint about it is that the survivor can just run around with a minute of immunity, I mean it might just be me but I just take the DS because 5 second stun time is better than 60 seconds of being scared to touch a certain survivor.... People need to stop complaining about every little thing in this game.
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So you wouldn't have issues making DS more anti tunnel perk. Keep the 60 seconds, but if i move at least 32 meters away (which is average terror radius distance), then the timer should move much faster and you get 30 second immunity. This way good killers who don't tunnel wouldn't get punished and DS would be less of a crutch. Since now it's anti tunnel perk and also a crutch.
If i get hit by a DS without actually tunneling nor camping. Then i will tunnel that person out. That's how i do abaut it
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Yes, I do.
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The killer decides if he gets affected by DS or not.
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