Do you guys seriously think Ds is fine in the current state?
Comments
-
@MissBehavingX no it's completely different.. with haunted or myc you can just hide... as killer you got no time to waste..ds it's actually stronger in certain aspects than before and that's why is even more used.. ds got reworked-nerfed, but then buffed again, if you remember. DS is meant to be an ANTITUNNELING perk. Right now for what i see, it's also a slowing down momentum killer perk, also a free full minute of invulnerability if you got a locker near by. You ignore them ? sure let them also complete the gen.. also i need to remind that this happen even if you don't tunnel
0 -
If you're already far enough away then DS doesn't bother you to begin with, why would it need to be changed?
And no, this change would actually hurt large TR killers (TR Doc, for example, and Doc is the last killer to need disadvantages compared to others).
And the survivors who want DS to be an issue for you (aka those you should just slug), would just stay in your TR, not much has changed).
Additionally it would make tunneling killers with map pressure a lot worse. We've all faced a Billy who comes back from crossmap to tunnel you. The Wraith who masks his TR with cloak. The Spirit who moves away and then just phases back.
DS is fine as it is. It's only an issue if the killer plays into the survivors' hands, or if they're absolutely demolishing a survivor team (at which point DS wouldn't be much of an issue anyway).
You're digging for a change to a perk that doesn't need changing, and it's actually a bad change that just makes weaker killers even weaker, and stronger killers stronger.
0 -
It sounds like you are survivor main man. I'm currently playing more survivor than killer and i understand strenght of the DS. It's in my opinion the strongest survivor perk right now. It's actually free escape at the end game if killer didn't tunnel earlier of the game lol..
0 -
@lunaticlifter Saying "just hide" for MYC or haunted grounds is the same as saying "just chase someone else", same logic, not even gonna discuss that....
It is an anti tunneling perk, a ONE TIME use anti tunneling perk (unlike MYC). Maybe if killers let survivors use it at the start/middle of the game then they wont have to worry about it during the end game. It doesnt grant invulnerability at all, it would if the skill check was guaranteed, but it's not. Yeah u can say "most people can hit it" but there's times they dont, and you will never realise because u cant see it.
It rarely happens if you don't tunnel. I'm not saying it cant, it's happened to me, but not enough to consider it OP or an issue. If you see the player practically begging you to chase him/down him, then yes, just slug them, or ignore them, or like I said, do something else. Prevent the other survivors from completing the gens.. I mean, that's the whole point of the match..
0 -
I will tunnel and camp that person out if i get punished without a legit reason. Also in my all survivor games i missed the new DS skillcheck total of like 4-6 times. It's VERY easy to hit lol
0 -
I mean, if it's endgame, gates are open and the survivor isn't dead yet, you have lost. At that point that one escape wouldn't be problematic: you didn't perform well enough (or the survivors performed too well) to kill before EGC.
I play both sides. I'll admit I play survivor more (as I enjoy the "getting chased" more than the "hunt them"), but on the topic of balance I look at it from both sides, try to evaluate strengths, weaknesses, counters, etc., and make conclusions based on that. I'd dare say I'm on equal ground in terms of game balance, not particularly one-sided.
DS has a bunch of counters to an already limited perk. Yeah, it can come in clutch, but so can killers' Blood Warden, NOED, HG, or even add-ons. Those perks however also have plenty of counterplay, and are also limited, hence why nobody wants those to be nerfed. (Except NOED, though NOED is more of a sentimental issue of "this is cheap", much like DS is, both are annoying but they're fine as is.)
0 -
Yes, I think DS is fine in current state and I play both roles.
1 -
How will u get punished without a legit reason? You mean not tunneling and getting DS? Well camp them then if that's what you feel like. I don't see the big deal. Whenever I get DS-ed I'm like "ugh Ds" and move on and almost always chase them and down them back.
You'd be surprised how many people have told me "i hate when I forget i have DS and i miss the skill check" so it's not as uncommon as you think.
0 -
I see that most of us that play both killer and survivor almost equally agree that DS is fine as it is.
3 -
New ds is very good when the killer has a ton of map pressure and is also good with one gen remaining. Where as previous ds was good away from hooks. Also previous ds, for the most part, could only be used one time.
If a survivor uses new ds in a clutch moment then it is fine. If four swf survivors use new ds in a tactical way, congrats you've paralyzed the killer and it is op.
0 -
I see that most of us that play both killer and survivor almost equally agree that DS is overperforming.
Demagogue much?
1 -
Lmao I mean, just read the latest comments and you will see 3 people that play both sides agreeing that it doesnt need nerfing. But I guess you decided to dismiss that.
2 -
People "say" they play both sides. I also I play more or less both sides and I disagree, but don't comment on a subject, because it's pointless. Well, I guess as I'm at it, DS allows you to be an idiot and get away with it. I dislike that. There must be something changed to discourage people from acting stupid on purpose.
0 -
Same logic can be applied to NOED.
0 -
Yep. No complains here.
0 -
Everyone who thinks ds is too strong is a confirmed tunneler
2 -
I find it sad that salty killers hate DS so bad, every time a thread is made that fails to get dev attention, they make a new thread to make the same complaints and ignore the same criticism.
I'll just make my same suggestions from last threat I saw making the same complaints. If you make DS disable on next hook, what happens if 2 people get unhooked at/around the same time? Who gets to keep their DS? Why do you, as a player who falls into their traps so often that you feel it warrants a nerf, get to decide these things?
My suggestion, in the previous thread by @yoi was to change DS to disable either after 60seconds, or when healed into the Healthy state. I am still of the opinion that DS does not need a nerf, because as someone who plays both currently at purple ranks (was red survivor before reset), I find that when I play against DS, it takes all of 20 seconds to re-down them. When I use DS, I only get to use it maybe once in every five or six games, unless I'm playing a niche build for BP (WGLF, DS, We'll Make It, Self Care/Adrenaline with a medkit for early/midgame), but since I'm on console, I notice they fall for the trick a bit more often than I've seen on PC (though to be fair, anyone on youtube generally cherry picks their content), so my opinion will likely be discarded, since I "dont know any better", just like in the last thread.
2 -
I think this was already mentioned, but i'll say it:
DS is not meant to ONLY stop tunneling, but also to slow you down.
2 -
Yes
I will take the current DS over old DS any day.
0 -
Pull them out of the locker, take the "invincible" stun and go on chasing. Seriously no problem at all.
2 -
The perk i'ts fine. Just ignore the unhook person or slug him. For console players DS is must. 7/10 killers camping and tunneling.
1 -
you missed my point.
If i get unhooked, i go to the next gen and do him. if the killer comes, i wont waste any pallet but go in a locker. so what now? the killer can get my DS or he leaves and gives me a free gen or he camps the locker and 3 other gens pop.
do you think any of this 3 options is right?
DS in the way you can abuse it right now is way to powerfull.
0 -
Eh.... Not really.
Ds itself has a loooong activation period, so essentially, 60 full seconds of invincibility. Grabbed a survivor off a gen and downed the survivor who still had ds? You Tunnelled." See what I'm gettin' at? Ds, yes, counters tunneling, but it also had an unintended side effect.
Due to Ds' long activation period, really now, you can do anything BUT tunnel and still get ds'd. It's still the same perk we've had the past few years before being reworked. Although shittier, it still does it's job.
What needs to be done to prevent ds to still be like a "Get out of jail free", and instead actually have their effects revolve around the survivor being tunnelled into Oblivion. And I do believe it can be achieved.
Have ds deactivate immediately after somebody OTHER than the ds user is hooked. NOT PERMANENTLY, it just runs the timer out so you can use it again when you're rehooked. That alone would provide one more, and possibly more effective method with dealing with ds.
Thoughts?
0 -
At that point though, wouldn't taking the DS be the better option? You got rid of the perk, and the survivor now gets into chase with no "second chance". You spent around 5 seconds traded for a much safer end-game.
Besides, this is assuming you failed to find another target, failed to spot and target the rescuer, the unhooked survivor hopped on a gen, and you happened upon them, within 60 seconds. I'm still not convinced that the perk as a whole is an issue, moreso that you were unable to find anyone else (which would be the equivalent of simply finding and chasing another person, regardless of DS existing or not: the unhooked survivor can still do a generator).
Doesn't every killer run BBQ&C nowadays, anyway?
I can see how a survivor would abuse it now, but I've had it happen once ever since DS got reworked, and that was because I decided to chase the bait (they revealed themselves on purpose) on my own accord. In pretty much every other case do I not get back to the survivor before their DS is out because I'm chasing someone else.
It just seems so rare of an occurence to nerf an entire perk over to me, especially since it's already a fairly limited if not outright useless perk in any case where killers don't actively tunnel, that it really doesn't need a change.
0 -
Camping and tunneling are killers estrategies that are totally legal
0 -
They are legal but the person on the hook has no way of escaping without ds
0 -
Just eat the stun and down them 10 seconds later.
4 -
Reduced timer from 60 to 40, reduce stun time from 5 to 3 do that and the perk is fine, I don't mind the locker tech because you could bait you have DS but the timer and stun times are an issue.
0 -
DS can, and often does alter the ENTIRE flow of the game. The locker trick is imo, the worst way its used and the most absurd. Delay the DS skill check on locker grabs to give the killer time to drop the survivor and I think it would be fine.
0 -
You didnt get my point right. It has nothing to do with finding another target or the rescuer.
If i get unhooked with DS, then i just do a center gen or a gen thats nearly done even if the killer chases next to me. if he tries to chase me, i just get in a locker. if as you said, he choses to grab me and i DS him, i can get to the next loop without any problems (5 seconds is very long) and just save drop the pallets. so there are 3 other survivors pushing the last gens for my adrenalin and i am out.
So what i wanted to point out is that DS gives you a free ticket to do a gen anywhere and break any 3 gen strat. It also brings you to the not heal but push gen descision after an unhook.
i also play killer 50% of my time and i have to deal with the same ######### that i do as survivor. DS should disappear the moment you touch a gen. i have no problem if DS would be up for every surv after every unhook as long as they lose it the moment they do a gen or totem. all you should be allowed to do is healing.
0 -
I'd be good with that too.
The people saying DS in its current state is okay don't understand how real high rank survivors use it. It isn't an anti tunneling perk. It's a "F U I do what I want" perk.
0 -
I think the only problem is being able to jump into lockers to force a grab
0 -
That would make DS an incredibly detrimental perk to the team.
If DS really turns out to be an issue (that certain data points out), the only change, and I mean absolute, the only change that should be done, is to disable DS entirely upon entering a locker, or have DS only reactivate after 3-4s of leaving the locker (the overall 60s timer would continue to tick).
Still think DS is fine in its current state personally, as it barely poses an issue for me, and seemingly a lot of other players too, but if they do come around to changing it in some way, again, that's the only change that should be done.
0 -
I don't believe you actually play both sides. You're just "saying" it.
See how that works? Most people play both sides to some degree or another. It doesn't matter if you don't believe them. That only shows that you're biased.
1 -
In my experience using it as a survivor the most effective way to play the DS is to just pull them out the locker. Typically if they jump in a locker they could have wasted roughly the same amount of time as they could have with the DS by just continuing to run and loop you. When I use it as DS good killers just eat the DS from the locker and it often ends up messing me up later in the game and I end up wishing I would have just kept running instead of letting them get me in the locker.
The only thing you really want to avoid with DS is chasing them for 20-40 seconds only to eat the DS because that 20-40 seconds becomes wasted. If a survivor jumps in a locker right away, just eat the DS because you aren't really losing any momentum since you weren't chasing them for very long (and thus aren't losing any momentum.) If you do end up downing them you should leave them slugged though, even if they get back up that means less people on gens.
0 -
Believing or not doesn't change the opinion. My problem was with attempt to generalize "the actual proper group" which "know what's right for everyone". What you did there looks more like an attempt to mark my statement of belonging to said group as invalid because my opinion doesn't correlate with the only right one. "Oh your opinion isn't the same as ours means that you're biased therefore don't play both sides".
0 -
I'm not trying to do anything other than flip what you said back onto you.
0 -
DS is currently very balanced. there are many counters, including slugging, unnerving presence, enduring, etc.
DS is perfectly fine as it is.
1 -
Yeah, flip of a flip. My statement just before've been that you should take it with a grain of slat when they say (me included) that they play (not) both sides. And trying to differ them will be an act of demagogy and hypocrisy. Only important part is "their opinion".
0 -
Enduring
It was changed half a year ago.
0 -
I'm fine with it, and here's my reasoning.
If you do so well that you manage to hook somebody but still down the guy who got rescued before the minute is up, you're on the upswing anyway. Slugging, while it does not progress the hook, does delay the game and buy you time. Niether the slugged person on the ground or the person who is coming to rescue them will be progressing the gens.
As for them jumping in lockers... well, they beat you to the locker - deal with it. Find another target or eat the DS
Remember, if you eat the DS, it's gone for the rest of the game.
0 -
I have never been hit with DS since they changed it. I am betting it's just a vocal minority of really bad killers that have issues with it. No, I don't use pay to win killers or insta down killers either, or run NOED or ruin. You guys are basically trash killers looking for easy
0 -
oh ok. well unnerving presence is still a counter. the skill checks are tiny.
0 -
I still think make your choice is the killer equivalent of it.. As a survivor you get rescued, you get a 60 seconds chance.. someone rescues you and the killer gets a 60 seconds chance of a free down.
1 -
I feel like people forget that unlike the OG DS, currently all 4 survivors can run DS for a minute of god mode. When a Gen takes about 2 mins, thats almost 2 entire Gens worth of time you have to tiptoe around making sure that you dont go for the unhooked survivor. And the worst thing? If you wait the full minute, the survivor has access to it again. In a game like DBD, where you usually want to get the 1st kill as fast as possible, DS is pretty much better than Borrowed Time for the sheer amount of stalling potential, and work the killer has to put in to avoid the near guaranteed escape if you get hit by DS. Ya no, DS is almost better than it was at release.
0 -
It is not fine, atleast in the current state, in high ranks where games are 5-6 mins tops, you can't afford to slug for 1 min, and if you don't get a kill fast you lose, basically you don't win...
1 -
I run impossible skillcheck doctor so good luck hitting ds when its even smaller. (Dont remember the perks name but it makes skillchecks smaller in terror radius)
0 -
im a bad killer and ds is not even a problem.
0 -
Ds is absolutely fine. No changes needed.
0
