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No, the game isn't killer sided now.
The game is fairly balanced, actually. I have no idea why this argument has come up. Maybe entitled surv mains who never touch killer. Remember, 50/50 is the best way to understand each sides issues.
The only issues right now is Freddy add ons and perks making him ridiculous (not his power)
Legion
Nurse...
A lot of things. But as for gameplay balance, everything is alright here to be honestly. Sometimes you will be genrushed, sometimes mori'd. It sucks but it's how bhvr built the game.
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So the first issue was spirit, now it's freddy? Next one is Ghostface, Huntress or Hag i guess. Hell people even complain about infinite T3 Myers #########. Just stop complaining about killers that actually got a power instead of an ability you don't want to use because it puts you in disadvantage.
I agree, that the balance of core gameplay mechanics is pretty okay right now. But keys and moris are just extremely bad designed and need a rework.
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games not survivor sided or killer sided it's just people whining now maps are definitely sided things
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balanced would be 62.5% to me and nearly all the killers go above this. (Do all of them? Is nurse the most balanced killer?)
The problems are: killers need more than the required kills to pip forcing such stats and survivors being on the short-stick.
Edit: Nurse implicitly seems to be the most balanced killer in the game... if she has about a 50% winrate across all ranks this means killers are hovering within their “rank” but at about 65% winrate in red ranks this indicates she’s viable and performs well in the top rank.
Edit 2: I honestly would prefer if survivors and nurse just got buffed tbh though. I mean surviving is boring... instaheals gone, bnps could be somewhat better (but nerf toolboxes), flashlights aren’t really viable against an equally skilled killer... all the features of survivor are pretty bad and there’s killers who want even keys removed. Killers aren’t featureless like survivors are... you can’t compare ultra rare kill add-ons to survivors ultra rare items/add-ons. But I don’t even agree with killers having too bad of a set.
Edit 3: I literally don’t know what to think because I’ve had games where I feel like my teammates are throwing... I just wish survivor was more fun but the game was balanced.
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Why isn't a ~65% kill rate considered one-sided? 50/50 is considered even in most PVP games. I play a nearly even split of killer and survivor, and killer wins way more often than not. As killer, I can't remember the last time a survivor escaped unless it was with the hatch, and even that has become more rare now that killers can close it. I get that SWF can be a problem sometimes, but even a 4 person team is going to lose against a good killer most of the time.
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It's 4 v 1 game. With SWF (Quantity+Quality) v (Quality?) = Bullied Killer
Killer sided? Are u kidding me? When Killer snow balling, Survivor going DC. Awesome. Killer chasing 1 Survivor for a bit longer = Tunneling
Killer patrolling around hooked Survivor because 2-3 survivor running around it = Camping --> report this Killer ftw
Survivor body blocking = All good, hey killer is OP, so shut up.
And this is what all survivor's called Killer aided :)
The logic here is mind blowing.
Survivor will always telling us Killer how to play
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62.5% to be exact and that’s somewhat by the old system where 2 deaths and 1 hook equaled a victory for a killer or 2 deaths and 2 hooks type thing (2 live). - but pretty much it just gives some wiggle room to killers to 3k for those bad swf games :P
and na... survivors can always beat killers through the use of gen rush which is essentially to the same effect as exploiting but not being it... since you win the game without really intending to play it. No one really does it but at a competitive level there’s that nuance chance that survivors could just control who pips and who doesn’t if killers are too weak... so yeah it’s just awkward.
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"Gen rushing" has always sounded absurd. The objective of the game is literally to do gens. What else do you expect survivors to do? if there's no one on a hook, and there aren't any active hex totems, there is literally nothing for survivors to do but gens.
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Then again the devs tried to make it impossible to pip with the first emblem system if only gets got done + escape... I mean that still kinda holds true at red ranks Pipping requirement... you do pretty much have to get saves/chases etc... so I mean... there isn’t that much of a risk if survivors were to be cut some slack.
But devs really need to come up with more solutions on survivor objective being less variable in completion time.
I had suggested to them before that they should base the emblems around survivors also making mistakes and not just what they do (while adding more to do)... They seemed to not do that but rather de-incentivise those mistakes.
I mean I had a real dumb idea in the past: just add food and beverages around the map like what was done on the “deadly premonition” game (which is a horror game btw)... and you need to collect them for “energy” - i.e. to do gens. People laughed at this but seriously it would solve a lot of issues lol.
You don’t have to hold M1, it supports several play-styles and people go around the map. It would also open the gateway for new mechanics (i.e. a killer that poisons the food or maybe it can be added to plagues ability).
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I had a game where a survivor just straight up gave up on me, as in, ran to the basement and pointed to the hook. Got called a boring killer because I didn’t fall for their 360 attempts and hit them regularly. Kept shifting my pressure that match to counter their 3 flashlights as Wraith with Franklin’s Demise, so committing to a long chase wasn’t in the cards that game. Just made me laugh as someone who does play both sides. People who’ve never played both roles just will not be happy unless they get exactly what they want out of every game. I was playing a mediocre killer into a team with 3/4 holding a hard counter to his power, and you’re mad that I was playing intelligently, plus you 3 genned yourselves. Oh well...
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But survivors just don’t do it and have fun half the time... if survivors did gens they’d win. Like all simultaneously and never cared for 1 of them getting hooked.
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the devs on deathgarden did implement a kind of energy system with the objective... instead of collect food/beverages you needed blood for the bloodpost... it was a successful win condition but the devs there just didn’t balance the game around the top players although there was no real stats to account for it and they took away too much content from the original deathgarden rather than fixing/balancing it... which would have compensated for the stronger killers. The reason I think DBD will work better is because survivors loop... random drops of food/beverages at loops makes it far more possible to create a healthy flow of gameplay... the problem with deathgarden was that there was no direct gameplay loop... it was get caught and die eventually despite the game was well received when it was re-released for the most part... people hated the 1-life system but I commented at the deathgarden forum on steam how some of the old content could have fixed that... bring back the bloodpost but once you go on once you’re marked for death... the scavs/runners/survivors would be occupied half the match trying to save teammates and not solely objective focused in order to win.
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And I’d say if there’s a gameplay element that frustrates one-side of game... don’t remove that element... that’s what deathgarden was doing a lot.
rather add new features that’d solve the problem... never take away but add to a game. (Unless it’s an exploit that means a 100% stall of the game becoming a full prison.) there was a controversial thing on deathgarden where scavs could hide in cubbyholes... I wouldn’t call them exploits (since the game continued and they can bleed out) but the way they went around fixing them (removing them) kinda lost a funside to the game... I would have preferred a none-resettable bleedout timer each time you go down like DBD... the downed person did attract other scavs from doing the objective so it had it’s positives.
I’d say “remove temporarily” than remove if the issue is too big though.
Flashlights were an issue in DBD? Add more perk slot options for survivor and killer so the killer is definitely able to bring lightborn or franklins if they so choose. Don’t make flashlights impossible to use or lightborn to completely null them.
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Kill rates seem to be hovering between 60% to 75% (with a few outliers on either side of the scale) with red ranks seeing more killer success on average. I know that the game used to be strongly survivor biased, but it kinda seems evidence is showing that the pendulum is starting to swing in the other direction.
Can I ask what you would think if the survival rates were between 60% to 75%?
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If they keep nerfing strong killers, it will become survivor sided to a larger extend than it is currently
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The game is killer favoured minus a broken loop in how the game works.
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Are we playing the same game?
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So if the objective couldn’t potentially be wiggled out easily by survivors... the kill rates would still be the same if not worse... doesn’t that kinda suggest that the game is killer favoured... minus the problem with the objective?
I mean you have looked at the stats right?
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I saw them but at red ranks the game seems survivor sided, at least in my games (when I don't play spirit, billy or Freddy)
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At red ranks most killers are hovering around 70% kill rate. I really don't want you take offense at this, but perhaps you're making minor mistakes that most red rank killers just aren't.
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It's killer sided ? You have a huge amount of pressure to be on everyone you can't really chase a survivor for long with three gens being able to get done in under two minutes if survivors wanted to at red ranks
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Or the survivors aren’t doing gens and are just having fun? I know for a fact if I was insidious camping with bubba how fast survivors are willing to gens. I don’t blame them otherwise cuz yeah insidious isn’t fun anymore compared to when survivors were stronger and could actually work around tackling it now and then.
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The stats don't mention platforms. I play on PS4 and playing killer there is more difficult due to limited sensitivity and sometimes due to framedrops.
Ofc i make some mistakes but I don't feel I stand a chance against SWF teams while playing clown or legion
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That’s the broken part of the gameplay loop... survivors just go on gens when they want. It’s not difficult to safety as survivor... so the option is there just to play the game once you reach a rank you want to and not do gens until you’ve had fun... even if you die you’ll probably safety pip.
If the gameplay loop was fixed though... killers are too powerful because they’re powered around 4-man swf stats rather than the others... which an old graph did show... the devs balance around 4-man teams and none of the others. If 4-mans couldn’t be as coordinated based by a better fix to the objective then even they’ll fall into being underpowered against killers.
Post edited by dont_ask_me_again on1 -
I don't know what you would call an swf doing three gens in under two minutes but hey imagine the survivor outcry if killers got three people hooked in the first two minutes at most red ranks
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70% kill ratio.. by camping? focus? that doesnt nothing. and how its good those survivors? good players? The rank now doesn't mean nothing.
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I can't say for sure of how the statistics play out now, but in the past survival rates at rank 10 and up were highest on PC, meaning kill rate was lower on console.
What if killer is afk farming or chasing birds for ornithologist, or moonwalking around survivors without attacking them? Both sides are capable of not playing to win, though you could argue that survivor teams are 4x more likely to have a dead weight team mate.
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Noone is saying it is tbh. Some changes are, but as I've said repeatedly, that's not a bad thing. And some more are needed to make it more fair for killer players...and for survivors in other scenarios.
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Kill rates have to be at 60-70% at red ranks because that's what it takes to pip at red ranks as killer.. if it was 50% like their goal is all the red rank killers would depip..
Meanwhile I can die every game and pip as survivor in red ranks.. it's way to easy.. so as the ranking system stands it needs to be about 65% death 35% survive.. maybe fluctuating a bit for diff killers.
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It’s not that simple... if they made killers weaker tomorrow... survivors would be too dominant to decide the outcome of who wins and who doesn’t if they decided to try.
@Peanits I hope you ask the devs to play a game called “deadly premonition: the director’s cut” ... it’s on steam too... it’s a soloplayer horror game... just for the scenery and to see how it has random food/beverages dotted around the map... It’s also a horror game... and it wouldn’t be copying the game since it uses those items for a health system but if put into dbd it can be an energy system to do gens. Would recommend having a look at the game yourself. The games reviews will say it has a comedic touch to it’s horror theme.
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I don't necessarily think that's true. Pipping up in red ranks should require a decisive show of skill. I honestly think that it should be harder to pip as survivor in general across all ranks. I believe that would actually bring down red rank kill rate because you would have less bad survivors pushed into red rank, maybe at the same time pipping should be more lenient for killers, with 2k's generally giving safety pip at red ranks. Especially if that is the balancing point in BHVR's design for this game.
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When I was at red ranks I played demogorgon and pig, certain maps felt unwinnable but I wouldn't say the whole game is survivor sided
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Everyone is saying that the game is not killer sided how can you even think that ....I play main survivor and I'm here to tell you that this game is completely killer sided how if you play as a killer tell me this with honesty....how often do you have a survivor if any escape....let that sink in....and I know people are going to say oh you just suck....sure me and every other survivor suck right?....no it's the fact that killers have so much of an advantage it's unreal.....in other words if you want to win be a killer
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STOP USING THE STATISTICS AS ARGUMENTS!
They are almost worthless in regard to balance.
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Yes you main survivor and don't play 50/50.
Your opinion is void.
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I did recently have one survivor escape through a gate and I got his teammates because they messed up pretty majorly.
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Peanits Dev∙Community Manager › Dev, Community Manager Posts: 4,382
You'll have to forgive me since I don't have time to read through the whole thing right now, but:
I only thought I'd address this now that I finally have the PROOF that Demo is not a powerful killer. As per the stats released, at red ranks, Demo fairs very poorly, having the SECOND LOWEST kill rate in the game, just barely above The Clown.
We said it in the stats post and I'll say it again here, you should not draw conclusions from those stats. They are about as broad as they get. They don't show details and account for any amount of factors. To give an example, he's just barely below the Nurse and the Huntress, two fairly powerful killers. Are they bad too? I feel like most people would say no, they just have a learning curve and there's a lot of people who don't regularly play them will pull those numbers down.
The Demogorgon is in the same boat. His shred attack takes some practice to use well (timing, aiming) much like the Huntress. In the right hands, he can still do well.
Example of why you shouldn't judge based on stats.
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