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Nerfs Need to Stop
I'm so annoyed with everyone on here just calling for nerfs to killers, especially when it's more than 50% of discussions. It's also just turned into a mess of For vs. Against calling each other bad for the most part.
What we need to start doing as a community is to start recommending ways to make weaker killers stronger. At the end of the day, Dead by Daylight is a 4v1 asymmetrical SURVIVAL HORROR. We need to start putting the "SURVIVAL" and "HORROR" back into the game.
Currently in purple ranks on console, all I see are Hillbilly, Freddy, Myers and Ghostface consistently with occasional Trappers for the Archives missions. 5 out of 17 killers. This is a joke. Survivors have too much free reign over the game at the moment, and I know because I am one of them.
So, let's start theorising some buffs for weaker killers and get the game back to where it should be. I'll start with some of what I think are the killers who need it most:
Pig - Ruleset No. 2 should be a base thing, since SAW is all about pressure and survival instincts, so let's make the gameplay reflect that. Decrease charge requirement, it's too slow without Video Tape or JMF and it's to me, the best way to play Pig so making her dash more viable will make using her bear traps easier. Give the growl noise only when actually charging, which is a similar problem to what Reaper had in Overwatch with his teleport being so loud. It telegraphs too much, so removing it will add back to the surprise attack factor of the ability.
Wraith: Increase uncloaking speed and quieten footsteps while invisible, so that there's a bit more of the surprise element and he isn't so easy to find stomping around next to you
Legion: Make Mending a healing action. Then it can be affected by effects such as Sloppy Butcher, Coulrophobia and A Nurse's Calling. Make the Frenzy cooldown animation shorter for each survivor NOT affected by Deep Wounds.
Doctor: Change power to a channelled ability, rather than stances and have Static Field a permanent thing. This will make him somewhat similar to Huntress then, but it takes a lot of time to switch stances and use his power when in a chase, not to mention the slowdown effect of being in Treatment. This should make Doctor more viable in a chase as it will allow him to deny vaults and pallets more efficiently.
I'm not saying that all of these should be put into the game, but they're something to start with.
Comments
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This game has very much been a "us vs them mentality" since the dawn of its creation. One side won't be happy with a change no matter what, that's just how it is.
Nobody is against buffing weaker killers, but when stronger killers consistently dominate, they need to be toned down first. Buffing weaker killers usually takes more effort than adjusting some values on say Spirit (look at how long the Freddy rework took to come out). I hope it'll all come in time, but they can't do everything at once.
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Strong killers don't dominate though. You only see them in top ranks because they're the only viable choice against the stuff top tier survs bring into games. Buff weaker killers and you'll see character diversity.
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why I agree with addressing killers that need it.
i think the dc issue is far worse and feel they need to address it ASAP. I just had a game we’re a survivor dc while using a bps and a clown killer dc at the end to try to deny me my escape points as we still did 5 gens and got 3 man escape.
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Please for the love of god people need to stop suggesting RSN2 as base. It is literally going against and doing the complete opposite of what her RBT was designed for.
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I play a Gen-Protector build, so forcing people to work on generators works really well for me. You also have the option of hunting for the boxes yourself. Main point is though, they're just too easy to remove as is.
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In case people didn't know, way, WAY back in the first plays of the game, THE KILLER WAS TRASH!!! They were way slower, slower vault, everything. There were WAY more windows and ######### for survivors to leap through.So shut up and stop complaining about "OP" killers. They were buffed FOR A REASON.
PigMaineClaudette is right, all these nerfs need to stop.
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Same like rsn2 will do nothing at higher ranks, I think a new rsn2 is you shouldn’t be able to interact with jigsaw boxes until the trap activates.
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This is barely a nerf, it feels more like a QoL change than anything, spirit can still ignore loops safely and can easily track injured survivors with the added difficulty that now she wont be able to just bump into them and get easy downs.
Yes, some killers need some buffs to tweak their gameplay, devs have already confirmed changes are coming, they already listened to us with freddy, wraith and hag, as well as some annoying things in the past like the pallet vacuum and the infinite loops.
Stop acting like you are being prosecuted, both sides have been getting their needed nerfs. Not every game will be a walk in the park with easy 4ks.
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I play both sides and I'm saying that a good 60% of the roster of killers need some sort of buff. And rather than simply JUST nerfing stronger things, we should buff the weaker parts.
It is BECAUSE I play both sides that I can come out and say what I do. I'm not saying that I personally get prosecuted, but everyone on these forums persecute each other.
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Chase and get chased mechanic makes DBD the most succeeded SURVIVAL HORROR game out there. SURVIVAL HORROR here means the graphics, the atmosphere in the game, not the OP killers that can 1 hit and you die. If you want SURVIVAL HORROR gameplay, go and check on F13 the game (somewhat popular SURVIVAL HORROR multiplayer game) and tell me how it goes compared to DBD.
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Nerf the OP killers means everyone will play balanced killers, buff the weaker killers doesn't mean people will stop playing the strongest killer.
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Chases are open to abuse by survivors with infinites and some perks in the game. And while DbD does indeed nail the atmosphere and graphics of Survival Horror, it doesn't have the same sense of dread or urgency and THAT is what I have an issue with.
And I agree that nerfing OP killers, and I mean blatantly OP killers. Not just nerf the strongest because they are the strongest, which is the mentality of the community right now and again, that is what I take issue with. That is what I'm fighting against. If it (theoretically) came down to playing Myers vs. Wraith and Wraith was all of 5% more efficient, then I'd probably play Myers more often than not, because Myers is a classic horror bad guy. The main reason I used to main Pig is that I am an absolute SAW fanatic, and I didn't care for tier listings or power. I like SAW and I like the Pig's playstyle, with Dash add-ons.
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Right, nerfing the strongest killer also doesn't mean that weaker killers gonna be played more. Unless nerf is so hard the strongest killer gets to the same level as weak killers.
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I stopped reading at this one:
"Chases are open to abuse by survivors with infinites". Literatelly stop tunneling and go for other ones instead of eating all the pallets in the game, I never get a chase of more than 2 minutes without downing one as a killer. As a decent survivor player, I mostly go down at least once per match.
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"And cross your fingers that your next survivor is actually a potato". Chases are open to abuse by ANY survivors, not only that one you chase at a moment. You see a guy ran to infinite, switch and watch, how your next target runs to the same infinite. Say "hi" to broken window loops.
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Seriously, you need to play more killers to understand how to control the chase, the pressure and the target you chase.
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"Just apply pressure bro"
Now, I actually kinda disagree with the other side too, there's no true infinites in the game anymore, the only one that still exists is Haddonfield but you need to run BL for that. However, there's too many safe pallets on maps. So it's less about infinites, and more about how easy it is to chain safe pallet to another safe pallet to another safe pallet, and on maps with killer shack that's another insanely good loop. I think realistically maps shouldn't spawn with more than 3 safe loops, considering a safe loop can waste upwards of 30s for a killer, and when survivors can finish the game in 3 min 30 that's a lot of time.
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Thats a good way to make use of RSN2, but overall I would advice against it. What it will do at low ranks to newer players is the equivalent of what Nurse, Spirit, and Billy do at high ranks and polarize the match. Except unlike the killers it's completely passive no skill required.
I think the traps just need skill checks removed honestly and 4 seconds added.
That on the other hand would be amazing.
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Nerfs dont need to stop, they still need to be executed, cause they the urgent issues which must be changed as soon as possible to stop further frustration and their Domino-Effects. Also they already told us, that they just cant do nerfing and buffing at the same time due to their scedule which work- and timeframe already exceeds the possibilities of the workforce to work on other issues which arent urgent. Thats just to accept, cause it cant be changed. Thats the dilemma of using narrowed roadmaps.
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Hold your horses love, on the road-map they're looking into Doctor (which is most likely a buff) + they're reworking some maps too. I rather them rework the maps first then buff Killers, Totems/ Ruin may last longer and some Killers may perform better with the new maps.
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Well, I don't exactly follow roadmaps, but it us good to hear Doctor is getting some love. Same with maps. There are some that are just dumb.
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Who says I tunnel? I slug to avoid tunnelling half the time. And you know what? PIG STILL EATS PALLETS ANYWAY!
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Please!!! tell me youre joking ok?
all killers are viable at red ranks but you need to spent more time to learn them or you need to make more mistakes, ppl are playing mainly top tier killers because they are too lazy to learn how to play weaker killers because they have 4k or 0k mentality which is unhealthy in noncompetitive game xd (i love when streamers are playing 1 or 2 games pig in month and are telling she is one of worst m1 killers xD without even using her crouch to its potencial but to do so you have to use brain which is too tiresome to most players/streamers)
TOP ranks and TOP tier survs <hahaha> when i play solo surv my teammates are equaly bad in green, purple, red ranks (i have around 1200h on survs and 900h on killers) and you can find good players on every rank (not everybody is playing enough to negate rank reset)
about buffing weaker killers i can fully agree i would wholeheartedly take yellow windstorm to my wraith base kit ^^ or +1 trap for pig but they dont need much more (i use only yellow and brown add ons)
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I mean, I'm obviously talking about survivors who play to the top end of what survivors can achieve. How's a M1 killer to compete against a team who know how to loop well, so they can waste up to 60s or more per chase, and know how to pump through gens even with Ruin up. There's variables, of course, but a good survivor can last at least 50+ seconds in a chase, by which point 2 or 3 gens will have gone. Then you get into things like keys, top end toolboxes, prove thyself. There's a lot of potential that survivors usually don't tap into because ranking up as survivor is easy, so there's a lot more skill variance in the top ranks of survivor and they don't feel pressured to play their best.
As for 4k or nothing mentality, it's mostly enforced by the game. As killer you're usually punished for a 2k, it'll at best be a black pip but usually a depip. You need at minimum the equivalent of a 3K in terms of hooks(9 times hooked), with at least 2 kills, to pip. With one of your emblems being entirely up to the survivors for how the game ranks you. So if you wanna talk about a unhealthy mentality, take that up with BHVR and how they balanced the emblem system. Not to mention, a single DC or death on first hook can pretty much guarantee a black pip or depip no matter the end result.
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@Lucama but you know killers have their outplays too? its not only going in 1 way? (except infinite windows which are BS) but thats how old legion was made 50h killer could kill 2000h surv without any effort
and we're talking about extremely rare cases when more than 2-3 survs are rly good (most of killers think mediocre survs are good which is funny) but youre telling me killer is not viable because in less than 5% of games you will lose and you almost cant do anything about it? (almost because there is always a chance)
when you play soloQ as surv you have much higher chance you will lose no mather what because randoms will DC, let me 3 men slugged in 20 sec, while slugged sit under hook so killer can camp both wont unhook you and you alone wont do 5 gens and even tho you lose because of that there is still plenty of solo survs (even tho entitled killer mains thinks and loudly speaks there is 99% 4men SWF with voicecoms (6% of games btw)) so can we talk about solo surv being unplayable but still majority of survs are soloQuing?
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I don't see how other survivors making solo survivor games annoying is an issue that killers should be punished for. Maybe actually deal with DCing players.
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Agreed, it’s better to just buff the other killers rather than nerf the strong ones
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That's false because the devs have stated multiple times that killers such as Spirit always been dominated red ranks.
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And the several times they've posted stats killers like Nurse and Spirit have barely better stats than other killers at red ranks. They're played more, yes, but that's because they're the few viable options when survivors decide to try for a change.
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Not really because they are both killers which can ignore all loops. Other then Nurse, Spirit was just a guessing game which didn't really require much skill to counter nor play.
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Which is what makes them viable at high ranks. Wasting 60+ seconds in loops because you're against strong survivors is not viable when the rest of the team can do 3 gens in that time.
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"I don't see how other survivors making solo survivor games annoying " rly? its so obvious i can only ask if youre blind, DC is 1st case (thats true) other case are teammates that are literally AFK whole game (escaping with 8k or dying as last with 4k bp) i cant count how many times i wasnt unhooked (when i wasnt camped) just because randoms are doing gens or licking walls (trolls, survs dying in 10 sec after their 1st meet with wraith, pallet campers at 5 gens) and many many "great" teammates even on purple/red ranks
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Erm, you wanna finish the rest of that quote before responding?
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The entire quote is visible in his response and he's right with the whole randoms being annoying. And I don't really see killers getting punished. But then again, these are probably the people also crying for Spirit nerfs.
The main point is that killers are being punished for us solo players being paired with potatoes constantly. Potatoes also suck to go against because it's so unrewarding.
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If something is over performing then it will get nerfed. If something is under-performing then it will get buffed. The idea being an end result that most players will view as being reasonably balanced and fun to play. Asking for an end to nerfs is just silly. If they ever do stop nerfing and buffing things then that will be a sad day because it will mean they are no longer putting resources into the game.
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In the past year we've gotten 4 major killer nerfs and one major killer buff (Nerf: Legion, Nurse, Pig, Spirit) (Buff: Freddy)
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I'm not saying that ALL nerfs need to end, but the mentality that we should just nerf stronger killers in general. I'm kinda glad that Spirit's collision got removed, and I play her. Nurse's add-ons needed a rework. They were not in a good place.
Pig? Too weak to remove RBT at endgame. Pre-rework Freddy? Literal laughing stock of the community. Legion? Annoying, nerfed, reworked. Still annoying.
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I'm not saying I'm in love with the nerfs they've made. But for the most part the changes have been reasonable. Most the killers are still playable. I don't know why you even bring up Freddy. He's a success story imho. They took the time and got him right.
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I did say Pre-Rework..........
And while reasonable, it's seemingly all we see. Or at least of these forums, anyway. It seemed like for a good while on these forums, more than 50% of threads were "Spirit Nerf Plz" or something to that effect.
This thread is not to say to the Devs to specifically stop nerfing entirely, but to get the community to stop crying for nerfs against the top ranked killers. They're all becoming weak, and a joke because high ranking survivors don't want to admittedly verse the same killers all the time, but learn to counter them better.
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Myers: Don't make evil within a exhaustible resource since it's possible to exhaust it and not secure the kill
make it so evil within can be activated instead of 99% percenting them and getting the 1% in a chase cause he's big tall and scary it's obscene that they want you to play him stealthily is a chore.
Make it so evil within 3 reduces the cooldown of swings by a lot so survivors that stick together in big groups die together since the skill seemingly only lets you down 1 person per use unless by a stroke of luck they are running side by side.
Ghostface: make it so the exposure thing is just a touch quicker since when I use him I only get like 1 or 2 exposed through a whole match and I shouldn't need offerings to make it useful when survivors can fix gens obscenely fast. Slow and steady does not win the race in this game.
remove the missed swing putting you out of your power since it's annoying to slash someone who's lagging or if I lag and I have to wait 30 seconds cause of network issues.
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I read somewhere that 4SWF have a 50% survivral rate, entitled my ass killers are Z tier mostly. You're just upset this game isn't giving you wins in ways you want and consistently.
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Ummmmmm, they should theoretically have more. So many killers are camping, tunnelling and relying on an Ebony Memento Mori, skewering the stats in their favour.
And yes, Survivors ARE upset that a game that a majority of us paid money for, is sometimes unplayable because of one person deciding that raw kills are more important than embodying the spirit of a malicious Slasher villain hunting down a group of unfortunate teens/adults.
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@PigMainClaudette yea biggest issue in this game is no mather how good or bad ballance between killer and survivors and how much killers will cry about their role being stressful, ungrateful etc it is killer that on his whim can take off surv from game with just saying "welp youre not gonna play this game like you would like to, youre getting facecamped" by bubba/doc with hand and tapping m1
and ofc you can tell killer may lose game because of facecamping( well he will lose but 1 or 2 survs that he will facecamp will lose with him, pretty much without option to say no) but tunneling is doing same thing but better (its bad it works this way) because now killer is getting rewarded for pretty much unabling surv to play a game and when someone is telling me "but 2 or 3 survs will escape" why should i care about randoms escaping? do i get BP for that? nope? (i dont care about rank but) do i get sth in emblems for that? nope? so why should i care when i cant play a game?
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Myers is fine, just lean with ghostface?
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The pig's dash can be used to mindgame loops, break LOS and leave them guessing where you're coming from, if they decide to leave you don't need to dash. The pig feels fine to me, her traps coming off quickly sucks but she can put up a fight
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nerfs not need to stop there will be ever nerfs for surviver and for killers accept it or uninstall game thx :-)
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Once Billy gets his long overdue nerf, I will be happy.
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You know that this os a serious discussion, right? I think I saw a troll discussion recently called Dab Emote plz. You'd be better off there.
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Nah, let's nerf all of the killers.
It will actually remove my ability to play survivor as in red ranks it takes ages to find a single game.
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For me, it depends on if the nerf is justified or not. People have a right to call for nerfs if there is a legitimate basis for their decision.
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