Bamboozle.
General Discussions
General Discussions
Reminder that this game is still survivor sided.
xllxENIGMAxllx
Member Posts: 923
I mean look at that
I got dozen of them including coldwind farm , crotus prenn and haddonfield. That should not exist i get those loops 2 games of 5 it's insane.
So hear me out community and devs you should reduce the tiles connected by each other (shacks , L-T walls , Jungle Jym , Jungle Jym (Ormond version) connected to each others. I mean Suffocation Pit is the perfect exemple of this and is literally uncounterable dropping chase only delay the issues.
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Comments
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Bamboozle.
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bamboozle is just a band aid fix just like ruin to fix gen rushing
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Enduring, Spirit Fury, Bamboozle. Any instant down character. Trapper. Like survivors gotta survive man. Killers gotta kill, have to be expected to work hard for it. That's the point. Taking out just one loop in the images leaves a huge window where survivors cant do anything. Like I play killer but again, Billy can travel Sonic the Hedgehog for free, no punishment, insta down. Now Oni (Billy in denial) can do the same but he works for it.
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Triple connected tiles are painful, yes. The problem is that if bHVR decides to implement a forced blank tile rule, like "no triple safe tiles, there can be at most 2 touching in a row" then people will know, without exploring the map, that certain tiles will result in them being left exposed.
Experience does help in identifying where loops and pallets can be, yes, but knowing for sure, without having even looked, that the area you're coming up on is empty, and that you need a solid gap if you're going to try and pass through it? That's messed up.
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I would suggest dropping chase if you feel you're wasting time chasing? Try applying Gen pressure instead. If they are just hanging around a good loop like that, they aren't doing objectives.
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Remove all obstacles and make every map a blank white field with the survivors nailed to the ground for the first 10 minutes. Wearing rotating yellow warning lights on their heads. Please.
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so give me 2hours i can give you even more screens of pure dead zones with generators in the middle (pure dead zone means there wasnt pallet or window in like 12m radius from gen)
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Go look at my last post on why it’s NOT. At least for the endgame collapse.
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The EGC assuming the Killer initiated it is the Killer at his absolute strongest. It isn't a good example of the Killer being OP.
Kinda like how if I said the Survivors were OP if all 4 of them are alive with the exit gates powered then you might roll your eyes and be like "well duh, they had to power 5 gens while staying alive to get to that point". The EGC via hatch closing is like that.
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This game is not survivor sided
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Killer mains: "until the game is balanced around 4ks the game is survivor sided."
Killer mains see 4 man SWF getting 49% survival rates= "SWF is game breaking OP please nerf"
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You know: Use perk slots to counter bad map design and "apply pressure" (though I can't tell you how to apply pressure if you have to abandon chases because of bad map design).
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@Jukenobi Bamboozle don't even counter most of those loops because there is windows in each side. plus yes i drop chase very often and you know what another survivor do the same.
People like you don't understand the point and it's better that none of you reply, if is for saying this kind of BS. Loops shouldn't be an infinite they should be here to survive not being safe for 5 gens like it or not.
Only badham and hawkings isn't.
Survive yes, looping killers for oblivion no !. Loops shouldn't be connected and reduce the skill by a lot. It's like telling me that haddonfield infinite loop is the most balanced on the game. I don't know what rank you are but me i'm rank 1. I know how to play man, i know when to drop chase killers shouldn't feel the need to drop the chase because some maps strong connected design.
Macmillan are most the one with three connected tiles. Suffocation Pit is the most painful map.
If you feel that is normal you are probably a survivor main. There is no point for you to comment. The game is not even balanced for a 50% escape/kill. Most of the data devs give us are wrong. Many include DC and suicide.
Play Killer with those tiles connected with a strong team then come back and tell me how you feel.
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There are no infinites in the game anymore. If you get ran around for 5 gens then it is absolutely your fault.
Those stats also don't include DC's. They stated this many times already.
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My fault make me laugh. i never get 5 genned but if i tunnel the chase yes he would happen for sure. And please don't bother reply because those loops have no counter so bamboozle argument or drop chase argument is irrevelant against strong team.
I will also add if survivors were all strong this game we'll be back to the dark ages. Most survivors red ranks included are not that good that's why this game is still standing. I'm grateful for that but we should all be thankful to Nurse without her the game will be dead and forgotten.
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Of course it is.I mean look at some Pallet location's like there
I saw it too and was like wth?! Even one is unsafe but still.It is ridicioulous.
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Yeah cause that also includes killers who dc :>
Also those stats don't mean a whole lot without additional info to it. That is why they also sad don't draw conclusions from it.
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I agree that those loops are annoying (survivor main here).
What would you change though? If those loops didn't spawn then it means one survivor can loop till they drop the pallet and then it's gg for every other survivor that goes to that area from there on because it's now a massive dead zone.
Every one of those loops you showed is mind-gameable, a better example would be the big middle structures on most maps (which I still think needs to exist, just toned down slightly).
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The devs didn't count any game with a DC in it, in those stats.
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Bamboozle is broken and the ficken devs still didn’t do anything about it for months even though I already made threads about it on multiple forums. (Window block is delayed so the survivor can climb back after you block it with bamboozle. Same delay happens in normal 3rd vault block and still no fix...)
Also thanks for showing the Oni prestige sword. I was about to prestige him but it looks like none of his pieces look good.
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Actually all loops i'm show only show the broken loops but all around of that loops there's jungle gym and windows. So no is not a dead zone only loops that are mindgamable. Those i've shown is not mindgamable because the pallet and window are connected perfectly.
The start show how broken he can be.
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Tell us more about how you know much better than the devs and have better data than them.
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So, without a super lethal killer that has everything going for her, this game is dead. Would be for killers, sure cause they dont have that fallback cheesy killer. There are many strong killers that cant be looped without skill: Huntress, Oni, Billy, Bubba, Freddie, Trapper. Fixing loops for red ranks means fixing for all. A new player wont last long on a super nerfed where a red rank would. There needs a balance on all sides.
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It needs to be balanced around high skill survivors and killers though, not around the lowest rung of the game. It needs map balanced. It needs less get out of jail free cards. It needs strong killers.
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I mean problematic loops is nowhere near = the game is survivor sided. Some days as a survivor I get Shelter woods very often. Do I have to bring screens from that place ? I mean it is the entire place you need a screenshot of... .How about Hawkins ? I can show you similar bullshit places on other maps where there is a gen to do and there is literally nothing around to keep you safe if the killer approach. There are map problems but they are for both sides. It is easy to look only on your side. At least you have a choice what to do. The survivors have to use what is around them when chased. And lets not forget the RNG. Sometmes things are there. Sometimes they are not. That is what makes it okay to some extent
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No only nerfing high ranks is good. Jungle Gym next to another Jungle Gym or T walls should be removed. That only nerf the good players not the bad ones.
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I agree that there are still a few too many maps with too many pallet loops at which many killers have no counterplay at.
But in general I do not really find this game to be survivor sided anymore. It was once, but not anymore. The devs did an overall good job at balancing this game up until now, even if the balancing feels a little slow at times.
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I agree. I said that because the OP was saying that dc's were included.
The only uncounterable loops are loops like the ironworks of misery and the disturbed ward windows. The basic jungle gyms are counterable. When they are placed right next to other strong loops, like the killer shack, they become a bit too powerful but I wouldn't say they are uncounterable.
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Dude, you cant just change a map for one bracket xD it's like saying: This is Haddonfield for pros, this is Haddonfield for noobs. It just doesn't work like that. You change a loop, it changes for everyone. You change a general factor, it changes for everyone. With everything that's in the game, it cant handle squat which is why there are so many bugs. Do you think they're going to make dozens more maps to cater for high ranks only or low ranks only?
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You cant just change game mechanics or map layouts for one bracket for the sake of easier killer games. If you change something, it works for all. Games dont just work the way you want it to.
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I hate to stereotype but this is too often true. Let us not forget about "survivor mains" that call for every killer to be as bad as the Legion
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The RNG on that map spawn was pretty ridiculous I'll be honest, but that LF messed up completely..
There were 2 gens in close proximity (most likely a 3rd nearby), so once those pallets are gone there's minimal safety, a 3 gen, and then it's gg.
The fact that LF didn't run those loops correctly made them seem better than they are. For example, if every time he vaults the window, the survivor runs to another loop then why not either just leave him alone or don't vault and just bloodlust him till he drops the pallet, which renders that loop gone?
Don't spend 5 gens getting mind gamed.
Ultimately, like I said, its RNG, it could go either way. I have personally never seen such a dirty set up on that map, and would go as far to say that the majority of the time when I do run into a similar setup, the rest of the map is mainly comprised of dead zone after dead zone.
I do agree that I have seen some dirty loops though, particularly when a jungle gym spawns next to shack, but just like killers gotta kill, survivors gotta survive.
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This sums up my thoughts haha, I like that you mentioned Shelter Woods because that map has a crazy abundance of dead zones. I totally agree with your point on the RNG, its perhaps one of the more important things to consider in this discussion.
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Gen pressure isn't a real thing and is probably one of the worst things to say. There is no such thing as gen pressure
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He could’ve actually hit her at around 0:43 seconds I believe.
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Probably but my point was too show how RNG can create loops that are literally uncounterable. All you can do is to follow around and hope that he drop the pallet. You know what i mean plus there were a L-T wall and a jungle on the right side of my screen.
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That is why map are slowly but surely getting reworked though.
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Explain yourself? How does Gen pressure not exist? Everyone else seems to do it..
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Sorry bruv but if you're getting looped for 5 gens you're doing something wrong.
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Read again i've not said i've been looped for 5 gens.
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It's pretty simple really, if you're chasing one survivor that's 3 others doing something else. Let's say for arguments sake, the killer only has to protect one gen and there's 4 survivors .unless he NEVER moves from it the gen WILL get done unless the survivors are just absolutely terrible at looping or don't know the map.
Now he COULD cut chases short just to make sure no progress on the gen gets done but now they will just be in a perpetual loop of healing each other after the killer abandons chase.
Now expand this out to 5 gens.
Here's an example of a MEDIOCRE team just completely bullying an otherwise fairly optimal killer you tell me what the killer could have done cause as far as I can tell the only part he really maybe messed up on was the beginning this is on console
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Ok?? Guess what ima do if killer has bamboozle? Ima run to another loop and wait out 15 seconds then rotate back to that loop untill he hits me then I get a sprint burst and run to another loop, btw i play both sides so I understand every aspect to the game and I can tell you right now that bamboozle does absolutely nothing it's a wasted slot.
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Exactly, any smart survivor who sees bamboozle is going to the next loop of which there's plenty,
It's so painfully obvious when people are speaking from low rank perspectives
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Yes the game is survivor sided because of RNG. At times it is also killer sided but let's just ignore those.
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Funny part is I bet my bottom dollar that it's mostly Survivor mains who say the same quotes "jUsT aPPLiY gEn PrEssUrE" "JuSt Leave Survivors alive at 2 gens" "don't tunnel" etc. These are the people who Solely play one perspective and don't play the other side to experience what it's like to be in that position. Like I said I've been playing this game a long time both sides as equally as possible and the maps in this game are by far the most broken thing in this game beside to Decisive Strike.
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These survivors weren’t mediocre and that killer (no offense) wasn’t playing optimally, respecting pallets is a good way to lose and that window juke they kept pulling is a very obvious trick, if he didn’t do those things he probably could’ve 4ked.
Also, nurses is a terrible perk choice on Plague, people already don’t cleanse against her so nurses is a wasted slot.
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Another nerf making tiles totally unconnected would leave the maps barren. Survivors would play a lot more immersed and the last thing I want is to wander aimlessly looking for the urban evading p3 Claudette twins.
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Lol he respected one pallet that actually cost him a loop every other one he woulda got hit, that's how you know the survivors aren't good
Perks are irrelevant. Lol there was no juking at the shack it was literally just running until entity closed the loop. Unless you're referring to the begging prior to chase but that really had almost no outcome o. The baring if the match
I love how you gloss over the fact that Blondie was abusing god loop which completely negates anything the killer can do and aside from that almost every other chase with the exception of the first one was ended probably as fast as they could have been with the mechanics currently in the game.
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You’re ignoring how he let survivors go behind him and vault those windows even though he could’ve hit people doing this, doesn’t matter if he only respected one, he shouldn’t respect any.
One survivor used it while the others didn’t, he could’ve just patrolled one part of the map so the god loop wouldn’t of been a problem.
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