General Discussions
General Discussions
This is why DS isn't "anti-tunnel"
This is what killers mean when we say DS is anti-momentum and not anti-tunnel. As you can see, not only is someone else downed and hooked, but the Steve is already fully healed. Normally I don't mind DS, but this is why killers complain about it and call it a get-out-of-jail-free card.
Comments
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Exactly. Thats some bull dooky right there. And this happens way more than people realize. Literally, at end game, you can get SWF teams just sacrificing themselves knowing they can DS their way out.
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Obviously the killer was supposed to back way as soon as they hooked, performed a lunge to interrupt steve, then down him AFTER he unhooked his ally. then down the other person and leave them both slugged because otherwise they'd be tunneling!
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And yet no one ever said it was strictly an anti tunnel perk except for the people who don’t fully understand the perk.
It’s also not an anti tunnel perk because the killer can continue to tunnel even after they get hit with DS.
A tunneler will always be a tunneler.
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"And yet no one ever said it was strictly an anti tunnel perk except for the people who don’t fully understand the perk."
Oh you mean LITERALLY the devs? Who stated that it was made to be strictly an anti-tunnel perk themselves...
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This is not proof that they are saying it is ONLY an anti tunnel perk. You can continue to post the same image over and over it will not change the fact that they have never explicitly said DS can only work one way.
You don’t have to like the perk, but it is doing what it is intended it should do. That includes stopping a tunneler (at least for a moment) because as I said, a tunneler will be a tunneler. DS doesn’t stop that behavior.
Read the bottom line of what they said.
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I have to disagree. Whenever the topic of changing DS comes up to prevent scenarios just like this, lots of people say "just don't tunnel" as a solution. Many people believe it's sole purpose is to prevent tunneling. I just wanted to show proof that that isn't true.
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Please post a link of where they said what you just said. Word by word.
You can also post patch notes if you’d like.
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Their post in relation to the patch notes has already been posted for you to read and you still refuse to believe it.
Also, it was said during the stream back when the DS changes were released and Horvath discussed their design philosophy with the changes.
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Well it is. Do we need a video where the killer tunnels someone, picks him up and he ds him to prove that? You should've put completely different topic to this thread. You tried to explain it better after the video. And this is one scenario where things don't really go as they should. The survivor is taking advantage of the ds by using it offensively which I don't think should happen in the way he did it by running back to the hook after being healed while you are there literally in your face. But you have to stop making these commnens about how you downed someone else and you even hooked him. That should not have anything to do with another survivors perk. It is the fact that he managed to pull that offensive action is not cool. But the current suggestions that hooking someone should just disable DS are just really really bad because it will affect all other possibilties where the killer actually tunnels again after he hooks someone. The way they may change DS for example is - DS to have some period of time where it cannot be disabled and after that time if you are still in some range of the killer while he hooks someone else ds should be disabled. But if you're out of it DS is not affected. But that will be very tricky to pull off by the devs. too many things to consider - people on the ground, 2 floor buildings, some other mecanics like traps that may not allow you to get away. Still may be possible
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They either cannot understand nuance or refuse to on purpose. It's honestly not worth your time trying to convince them otherwise because they don't care. They will never be happy with DS until it has so many conditions attached to it that it will not be worth carrying because you'll rarely if ever get use out of it.
They cling to one sentence Horvath uttered forever ago as if it's their ace in the hole when it's pretty obvious that the devs are aware DS does not strictly affect tunneling and seem to have no intention on changing that.
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If they hook someone else they aren't tunneling. Unless we are changing the defininition of "tunneling" again?
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If you've downed a survivor and picked them up within 60 seconds of them being unhooked then they kind of deserve a get out of jail free card. So until NOED gets nerfed let's leave DS alone.
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Did you even watch the video?
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Yes, that flashlight clicking steve who was fully healed and made a stupid play to save that Yui totally deserved the get out of free card because how dare the killer try to punish his bad play?
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I'm not referring to the video. Didn't even watch it. I'm talking about every decisive strike in general. Oh yes how dare a survivor bring a flashlight to try and escape the killer. That's so toxic wow. Jeez you killer mains act like bringing a flashlight is abusing a bug in the game but it's not. Flashlights were added to blind the killer and but time for the survivor being chased.
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If you'd watch the video, you'd see why neither of the arguments you made apply here.
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So DS to you is a survivor right? Fine, then I want Ruin as a killer right permanently.
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Go for it. Nobodys gonna stop you from running ruin and I usually find ruin within the first 3 minutes of the game starting with my small game and inner strength Nancy.
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Not many conditions, just one that makes perfect sense. It doesn't work after someone else has been hooked. How hard is that to understand?
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I meant it sounded like you wanted DS to be a permanent addition to Survivors. If thats the case I want Ruin the same way. And its not that he bought a flashlight, its that hes trying to bait the killer by purposefully being annoying, then going for a no skill bonehead save and then escaping for it as a reward.
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He knew him getting picked up would trigger decisive, then give him enough time to save her since there's a 5 second stun. Why else would he do that? He was obviously trying to get the killers attention with the flashlight and hopefully make her turn around and try to hit him so that Yui could wiggle out.
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just sLuG....
the devs aren’t going to nerf, they’ve said it already. it’s easy to counter.
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I was saying that every survivor that runs decisive and gets downed within the 40-60 seconds they get to use it deserves the get out of jail free card.
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No they don't.
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Yes they do. If they don't, then NOED needs to get removed.
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Its not a counter, its a mitigation. A counter is overcoming the perk. Slugging means they can be picked up or get up themselves and doesn't give them a reduced hook health state. And I don't care what the devs had said currently, I'm not going to stop complaining about it. I'm not just going to accept things as the way they are. That leads to stagnation and tyranny.
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Not sure what you think I'm not understanding? I think that's an unnecessary change.
Reducing the stun from 5 to 4 is fine IMO. I don't like the other suggestions because those are the type of conditions that I think makes the perk too situational.
Given how much you hate the perk, though, I don't think a 1 second stun reduction would keep you satisfied for long. Maybe I'm wrong but I think if that change was made people would be like "cool that's a decent nerf that makes DS more tolerable" and then within a week or a month or so they'd decide that's not enough and call for further nerfs.
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I guess it is hard to read ? Does it have use when you are tunneled ? Yes! So it works against tunneling as intendet. And yes it is tunneling if you hook someone and still go after the last one you hooked soon after he's been unhooked. It is not that hard thing to pull off with BBQ and using your eyes. Thre problem here is enterily different, if you dare to read you may find out
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Kind of how it continues to killers when survivors claim they are not fun to play against? You know whats not fun to play against as a killer? SWF depip squads. But Devs aren't doing anything about that.
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Imagine being a spirit abuser and complaining about any perks
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Spirit abuser?
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Don't you know? Killers get shamed for actually using good stuff, only survivors are allowed to be meta even though the game is survivor sided. It's in the survivor handbook.
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No, it has not. You said “The devs said it is strictly an anti tunnel perk.” I am only asking for you to post a link to a video or a post where they posted just that.
What Sairek posted is a change that gave the perk more purpose, but not only one way of using it.
Read the bottom line: “The 60 seconds does allow for enough time to find a killer again after being unhooked, but I believe it will come down to a smart strategy at that point.”
Hence they know you can still use it some other way. This perk doesn’t stop a tunneler, at best it stops a tunnel off the hook.
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and this is the same guy that probably got mad about the pig EGC nerf, spirit nerf, and nurse nerf.
lul.
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DS was already nerfed it’s fine where it is. Stop complaining about anything that doesn’t promote your gg ez 4K in 2 minutes
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"No, it has not. You said “The devs said it is strictly an anti tunnel perk.” I am only asking for you to post a link to a video or a post where they posted just that."
"it no longer serves its purpose to protect you from being tunneled/farmed"
pur·pose
/ˈpərpəs/
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noun: purpose; plural noun: purposes
the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.
It is in the definition of the terminology they used quite clearly. You've already been linked the post and the video I have already referenced to you, I'm not going to literally go scrolling through their entire history of youtube vids to find the exact one for you when it's quite clear you would disagree with their wording regardless. That is a waste of time.
You've been presented the proof from their post, if you still don't believe it then that's on you to look up the video.
"Read the bottom line: “The 60 seconds does allow for enough time to find a killer again after being unhooked, but I believe it will come down to a smart strategy at that point.”"
None of that phrase contradicts its purpose as being for anti-tunnel.
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You also have to consider the part before that where it was said "I'm also wondering if some killers will even see DS proc if they do not tunnel."
Many killers avoid tunneling but still get hit by DS. I don't think it would be game breaking to make DS deactivate if the the survivor gets healed to full, attempts a save, and/or another survivor gets hooked.
Otherwise let's just call DS what it is, another survivor second chance perk.
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Yes, a bit, and only to her base kit. You thinking my opinions and feelings are irrelevant does not make them so.
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<3
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The problem with DS boils down to this: It's supposed to be an anti-tunneling perk, but Killers will often get hit by it even when they don't tunnel at all.
Survivors shouldn't be able to treat it like a 60-second invincibility buff.
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Tbh. there is only one counter to this perk that isn't slugging- Eboni Mori.
But it isn't fun for both sides (unless killer has mental breakdown or just toxic) and it isn't rewarding in rank or bp gain.
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Ok, a couple observations.
1) To OP. You played that spot incorrectly, imho. Don't take it personally, we all make mistakes (I do all the time). There was no reason to grab and hindsight has nothing to do with it. Just m1 the unhooker, then the unhooked. You had two easy downs even with possible borrowed time in play. DS saved them in that situation in a way that is unintended, true imho. That doesn't change the fact that they made a very bad play that you could have capitalized on with a viable counter. The design of the perk carries only half of the blame in that spot.
2) To everyone saying change DS to deactivate if someone else gets hooked. That's a really dangerous change, because it would favor campers and thus tunnellers, because you know, the two go hand in hand. By camping (either face or proxy via stealth, m&a etc) and forcing or enticing the unsafe unhook, the killer again has two easy downs. Then simply hook the rescuer before the rescued and boom, camped and tunnelled effectively despite DS. The deactivate-upon-someone-else-is-hooked condition is no good to make the perk work as intended, it actually breaks it, at least not with additional stipulations.
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I multiple down situations, this change wouldn't work.
I've had to tell too many people about this scenario because people never seem to think about the variables in this game.
Killer downs you and sees another survivor right by you, killer then downs that survivor. Killer hooks you and then picks up the other downed survivor. As the killer is carrying this other survivor, you get unhooked. Killer then hooks the survivor they were carrying, deactivating DS and allowing the killer to tunnel all they want.
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Decisive Strike is a good perk, but really people complain about it way too much....
If a 5 second stun plus an extra 20-30 second Chase really ruins your match then I gotta say you were probably going to lose anyway
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"Spirit abuser"
Gave me a good chuckle not gonna lie.
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Interestingly, in this situation, by using his DS he actually gave you freedom to kill him - he gave up two health states just to allow you to grab him. Not a trade that is in any way worth it.
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Personally I feel DS should not activate if the survivor jumps in a locker to prevent it from being a bully perk (which it can be and don't pretend it isn't).
That aside, here is what is going to happen, (and already is quite frankly): Killers will be forced to adapt as usual and will now just assume EVERYONE has it and thus tunnel off the hook, eat the DS to avoid it's use at the end and thus a losing end game, and then chase that person down. It's becoming a tunnel encouragement just to get rid of it because of the abuse of it. Don't believe me? I have seen many proficient streamers doing this already. They do it, and thus their viewers will start to do it, ad nauseum.
It will eventually not be enough because it wasn't nipped in the bud early on like many other problems in this game.
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Feel llike the best way would have it deactivate once you begin doing something that isnt healing yourself or running away. If a killer finds you working on a gen or cleansing a totem, you clearly werent being tunneled. This might encourage people to use the time to get to a safer location and heal, similarly to what BT does with allowing the unhooked person to get enough time to reach a pallet or loop.
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