End game collapse
Okay. Hear me out, not everyone will agree with this, but please hear me out.
In my personal opinion, end game collapse is rather weak. It's not too threatening, and it most cases it can get completely negated by 99% a gate. We can force it by opening an exit gate as a killer, but honestly that really means nothing. Only way that it's a real threat is if you closed the hatch, but that means two things. Either you killed everyone or someone used a key. So, most of the time, it's not in play normally. Not including the hatch. So, my idea is this. What if it started after the GENERATORS got completed? I know it can seem like an issue, but most of the time survivors will compete a gen in front of the gate or the gate is rather close. Hey, you could increase the end game timer if it seems like it'll be too strong. I just find it rather flimsy. On both sides.
Edit: Okay, just to clarify. This isn't supposed to be a buff for killers. I'm not aiming for that, I want it to have more of a play. Not the killing type of play, since I'm saying we could make the timer FOUR or FIVE minutes instead of TWO. That'd make it more fair. Give both killers and survivors the option to gain MORE points in egc since the points you get during egc are doubled. You can't do everything, but it offers more breathing room for everyone. Bloodwarden would still be strong, but not as strong. Hell, it could give killers and survivors more of a plan too. What if Killers could open a gate during egc?
"Do we 99% a gen then?"
"What if the killer has pop goes the weasel?"
Comments
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Nowdays if I'm last survivor left with hatch closed I go farm totems before EGC finishes.
Sure you can try mindgame the killer but exit doors are usually adjacent to each other and if it's a high mobility killer you're better off farming totems till death.
Given that devs are aiming for a 50% kill rate at high levels but they're exceeding that considerably I don't think they should be adding more pressure to EGC on survivors, if anything based of their metric, there should be less.
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I don't know if this is a good idea or not.
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The EGC is not meant to get you kills, is meant to stop hostage situations and give survivors a reason to not open the door, and you can just open one if they 99% the door
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Yeah, I do that sometimes too. Or start sabo'ing hooks for points.
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EGC isnt meant to be a threat, its meant to end the game in an appropiate time, so survivors cant take the game hostage.
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I don't see the point though. Are you suggesting it as a means for the killer to sacrifice more survivors by preventing them to open the doors? If so, the perk blood warden does exactly that. It's really fun to use.
Otherwise, if the point is to just finish the game as quickly as possible once the gens are done, I don't think that's a good idea. Some games fly by really fast and both the killer and survivors can use the time before opening the gates to make up the bloodpoints that they didn't manage to get during the main part of the match. I think initiating the endgame immediately would force the survivors out too quickly, denying both the killer and them the opportunity to keep playing and try to salvage a game that went by too quickly.
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EGC kills me more times than the killer. Common scenario for me - last survivor, killer finds hatch before I do, killer proceeds to patrol exit gates since they are usually right next to each other.
I find a nice quiet place to die.
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They should stop the timer slowdown from being hooked or slugged. Survivors already have it easier than killers with their objective talking 80 seconds, they don't need another crutch.
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EGC cant be buffed because bloodwarden exist and EGC after closing hatch is meant to be killer sided (but it already dont need buff) but EGC after doing 5 gens is meant to not keep killer hostage + it already gives killer 1 EGC kill if he wants to keep surv hostage on pallet loop
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I get a lot of kills after gens are up because of the time it takes to open the doors.
I would basically lose out on all those then because the doors would just open immediately as soon as the gens were done.
No thank you.
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I never said it should guarantee kills, I just said it seems flimsy. Awkward. I even said they could increase the timer. I'm not expecting it to kill, I just want it to not be avoided by doing one thing and how it's odd that it starts as soon as a gate is opened. I mean, grant it. It does sound like I want it to kill, but I really just want it to feel.. I dunno, less clunky? Maybe I could have explained it bettee, but after seeing the comments, I can safely say no one agrees
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I was mainly trying to focus on the gate end game collapse, not hatch end game collapse. But, it's still a valid point.
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You may see it as a buff, I just see it as.. weird. It can completely avoided, so it honestly feels like old dbd. I even said they can increase the timer too. Maybe I didn't specify that part. But, whether it's three minutes, four minutes, five minutes, etc. It would feel slightly better than it starting after the gate is opened. Plus, it could potentially offer more ways to get points as well.
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The EGC is doing exactly what was intended. Stopping matches from ending with the Survivors just running around with an open gate against a Killer who is unable to pressure them enough to leave. They can try this with a 99% gate, but the Killer can just open it and force the match to end.
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Out of curiosity: Why do you prefer to wait 2 minutes for the EGC to kill you instead of letting yourself get killed by the killer and moving on the next match faster?
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Lol I do the same thing. I won't give them the satisfaction of hooking me ;) Too many killers troll the last survivor during EGC for me to bother. If the gates are too close, within eyeline or the killer has high mobility, I walk around and cleanse totems or open chests.
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You get more XP, more BP from chests, totems, sabotaging hooks and the basement, and you don't allow killers that want to troll to do so.
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If the EGC started as gens were finished that would be really cool. It'd apply so much pressure for survivors to escape ASAP and killers to make a last ditch effort. Bloodwarden would probably have to be nerfed a bit to compensate, though.
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Sad life of a sensible survivor that doesn't rush in and trade hooks
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Literally me.
Last night was the first time in forever that the doors were opposite from each other. The killer patrolled the one that was right next to me and as soon as he left I managed to open it and escape. It felt like a great win since that hadn't happened to me in such a long time. Even as a killer the doors seem to spawn on the same wall or adjacent wall too oftenl
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they said and peanits have said TONS of times, DO NOT DRAW ANY CONCLUSIONS FROM THAT DATA.
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Honestly, who cares if you're right?
Assume none of it is relevant and I completely missed the point and they BUFF EGC for killers.
It's not going to change my totem/hook farm lol, and in all honesty if this forum and the devs think that's the best way for a game to conclude. Then this game has become a joke.
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If they increase the timer, they wouldn't have to nerf it too hard
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No, let me try again. Okay, I find it extremely awkward that the big game changer happens as soon as the survivors are given the option to escape. What's the point then? Sure you gain extra points, but it's extremely situational. I'm saying if they changed it after all gens are completed they could do it this way.
-More EGC timer, so instead of 2minutes and thirty seconds, it could be five minutes
-Giving more survivors and killers the ability to GAIN those extra EGC points
-Matches could also end quicker
-it'd be interesting for both sides.
I'm not interested in making this a definite way to kill, I just want egc to be slightly more interesting and more beneficial. (Point way)
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Same thing can happen if you're an injured survivor. Honestly I don't see too much of a difference.
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It can still do the same while even giving the option for more egc points.
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It's not really suppose to be a buff ;~; I'm just trying to throw out an idea both sides can benefit from. I get bloodwarden can make it a huge buff, but that's why I also suggested they increase the egc timer. So it wouldn't be too much of an issue while even giving more points to everyone.
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Hmm, I like it as it is. It's mainly to stop the butt wiggles at the gate. I'm a survivor and hate em too, unless they are doing it to fellow survivors then I might join lol. But usually I'm straight out the exit unless someone needs help.
How long does it take to open exit gates? That would greatly affect it. Very specific example: if you were against a Trapper with both gates trapped which are close together, you're screwed if the EGC has already started after gens.
Sometimes you just need that extra bit of time before the gates are open. I know for a fact that if this had been implemented I would have been killed by the EGC a lot more. I think this would give too much free pressure for the killer, especially against new players.
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I also had a thought about that too, what if you can't place traps directly under the switch? I understand the gate opening time, that one is interesting. But, there's only really one perk that does that and that's remember me. It's already been nerfed heavily before. It's still rather strong. That's why I suggested we increase the timer and team work will make a big difference too
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@Almo I'm sorry for bothering you, but I actually just did a match were the survivors did exactly what you mentioned. It happens a lot, and since you can 99% a gate, it just shows the fact that survivors can still control the end game. I could have opened the gate, at that point it's just admitting defeat. I like to imagine that there's nothing wrong with that, but with certain survivors who know how to work around it, it's essentially no different than what it was before. One time I got insulted for essentially giving up and wanting them out of the game. "GG EZ bot, baby killer, etc." That's the main reason why I made this post and how I'm trying to find ways where it can work out for both sides.
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if this would happen I'd also bump the timer back up to 3 minutes like it was originally
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Well the first minute is to maybe find an unopened chest for a key - but then I usually find everything but a key. The rest of my time is spent destroying totems for 1k a piece and if I happen to have a tool box, hook sabotages for extra points. After that, it is just about time to die.
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I think I understand what you mean now. However, I think your idea may backfire against what you're trying to achieve. I'd say most interesting interactions during the end-game collapse happen due to survivor altruism. Taking human psychology into account, when people are faced with a timer, most of them will try to beat it. What i think this means is that it will force survivors out quicker than now even if the timer is extended from 2 minutes to 5 minutes and potentially force them to be less altruistic during that timer - i.e. survivors will be less likely to go for a save and more likely to wait around the exit or just leave. In my experience endgame altruism results in survivors dying more often than survivors escaping, meaning that taking the other stuff I suggested into account, starting the timer after the last gen is popped will more likely result in less average kills per trial and less endgame interaction between the killer and the survivors.
Personally I don't believe this result will be preferable to the majority of survivors or killers.
Obviously most of what I said here is based on my own experience in the game and I might be wrong, but I feel like the current system is actually more interactive and fun for both sides than the solution you suggested.
Edit: I missed one of the points you made regarding putting pressure on survivors before they are able to escape. I don't think it will do much though. How often are you in a game where it takes more than a couple of minutes to open or 99 the gates after all of the gens are powered? In my experience whenever that's happened was because all of the survivors were dead/slugged anyway - timer or no timer
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That's a fair point, I wish I had your experience with egc instead of my version. For me it would go like this.
-Complete all the gens
-99% the gates and wait for an opening
-everyone is here, open the gates and we'll leave.
It's always been like that for me, always. I know killers can open the gate, but I just find it odd. Everytime I open the gate, my plan for it immediately backfires. Maybe I'll keep trying.
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I'm sorry to hear that you are having a bad time with it. I do get these games as well and it's a pretty rough feeling when it happens.
I know you haven't asked for my advice and for all I know you're a much better killer than I am, but here's my two cents on the situation - If you're already in a chase with somebody when the last gen pops most of the time you should be able to down them before the gates are open. When that happens and depending on the situation/survivors' playstyle and the killer you're playing you have a bunch of options to extend the game:
- hook the downed guy and either stick around the hook - try to trade a hook or 2 with people coming for the rescue
- hook the downed guy and go hunting - try to intercept survivors coming from the exit gates on their way for the save. Often times they put themselves in risky positions which might net you a second down. If you get that quickly (assuming you've burned through a bunch of pallets in the area) you can slug, go back to the hook and react based on what's going on there.. or just hook the second guy and split the pressure on the remaining survivors
- slug the person and bait the others to leave the exit gate area
It won't work every time, but at least for me these moments often get pretty intense and make up for a rough time during the main portion of the match
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I actually like this idea, but I know a lot of people, obviously, would hate it.
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I think EGC is pretty much perfect as it is.
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I know that's good advice, but I feel like I'm cursed haha. Every time I try that, it always gets countered by the same thing and it throws me off every time. It's weird. Thank you though and thank you for throwing in your opinion into this idea. Like I said I know everyone isn't going to like the idea
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